Logical proof that God exists

[Shredderbeam]

well if you think god isnt real but you say he is, why is he not real?

I believe in God as set forth by this logic, which, to be honest, isn't much. It proves the existence of a God, but that is all. So, all I know is that there is a single point of existence. Where I go from there is an altogether different matter.

 

[Walk On Home]

...Meaning imagining and expressing a concept for anything else logically makes it existent.
What I'm saying is that if there had never been this concept of a god, there would be no basis for this whole argument, which that alone is more logical than any of these "theories".

 

[Fallen Soul]

I did deny that there was a God, but I don't remember saying it was self-contradictory. That would be illogical of me.

You did I remember.

I've always maintained that it was possible.

Don't recall you ever saying this but good for you

Well, do you actually appreciate the logic of what I am arguing, or do you just agree since you think God exists?

I agree with the logic in the fact that "If a god existed then he exists" and "If a god does not exist then a god never existed"

That's just a tautology; you could just as well say "This shape is a square under the circumstances of it being a square". Of course it is! What else would it be?

same circumstance as you saying if god exists he exists.....

 

[Shredderbeam]

...Meaning imagining and expressing a concept for anything else logically makes it existent.
What I'm saying is that if there had never been this concept of a god, there would be no basis for this whole argument, which that alone is more logical than any of these "theories".

No. For the last time, I will explain my logic.

If God does not exist, then his existence is impossible.

The concept of God is NOT impossible, so he MUST exist.

 

[The Z]

4). If God does not exist, he necessarily does not exist.

If God does not exist, he cannot exist.

=

Stupid. think about it. if my cousin does not exist does that mean he cannot exist in 9 months ? no. if something doesnt exist it doesnt mean they cannot. this destroys the whole argument. good try though

 

[Shredderbeam]

Stupid. think about it. if my cousin does not exist does that mean he cannot exist in 9 months ? no. if something doesnt exist it doesnt mean they cannot. this destroys the whole argument. good try though

No, God is a unique being, and your cousin is not. That logic only applies to God.

 

[Resident]

No, God is a unique being, and your cousin is not. That logic only applies to God.

you've yet to answer my post near the bottom of page three; lo mira, por favor.

 

[Fallen Soul]

No, God is a unique being, and your cousin is not. That logic only applies to God.

pwnt? But yeah he is right because an all powerful being would not even be close to the same circumstances as a simple human.

 

[Shredderbeam]

you've yet to answer my post near the bottom of page three; lo mira, por favor.

I cannot seem to find it.

an all powerful being

I'm just talking about God, stripped of all attributes but existence. Omnipotence is one of those.

 

[The Z]

ok, then shredder tell me by definition what makes a being unique. why is my cousin not unique while god is? what law proves "unique" beings can have rules of their own made up by you?

 

[jebckr]

No. For the last time, I will explain my logic.

If God does not exist, then his existence is impossible.

The concept of God is NOT impossible, so he MUST exist.

It's a valid point a suppose. It makes sense that the existance of God is not impossible so he must exist, but I still think I'll come down on the nonexistant side.

Why? One paradox, if you will, can't be looked at as a truely valid point. Atleat I don't think so. I'm open to critisism here.

 

[Shredderbeam]

ok, then shredder tell me by definition what makes a being unique. why is my cousin not unique while god is? what law proves "unique" beings can have rules of their own made up by you?

God, as I have defined him to be, is stripped of all attributes except for existence. Thus, this whole argument would, at it's most basic level, be put forth as an argument for existence. If anything is unique, I would certainly existence is.

Also, none of these rules are made up. Did I invent logic? I think not.

One paradox, if you will, can't be looked at as a truely valid point.

I didn't use a paradox as proof.

 

[Walk On Home]

There is no paradox. God simply does not exist. As I said before, if there had been no creation of the concept of god, there would be no reason for it's existence, making god itself impossible to be existent.

But no, according to you, somebody came up with a god-like figure that is apparently existent once that thought entered his head?

A few questions, what element of his being makes him necessary?
And how would this element come to make him exist?

 

[Shredderbeam]

There is no paradox. God simply does not exist. As I said before, if there had been no creation of the concept of god, there would be no reason for it's existence, making god itself impossible to be existent.

If nobody had ever thought of God, it would not make my logic any less valid.

But no, according to you, somebody came up with a god-like figure that is apparently existent once that thought entered his head?

Once again, here is my logic:

If God does not exist, then his existence is impossible.

The concept of God is NOT impossible, so he MUST exist.

 

[The Z]

exactly. you have proved me right. YOU define god as unique that does not make him unique.

also as to your whole "i didnt make these rules up" statement. You did. this is not logic. it doesnt make sense. give me rational thought as to why if something doesnt exist now it cant exist

 

[Shredderbeam]

exactly. you have proved me right. YOU define god as unique that does not make him unique.

If you had read my whole post, you would see that I reduced God to existence. Now, do you still contest that existence is not unique?

also as to your whole "i didnt make these rules up" statement. You did. this is not logic. it doesnt make sense. give me rational thought as to why if something doesnt exist now it cant exist

Actually, my good sir, it is logic.

Well, since existence is the only thing this argument applies to, that's the only example I can give. If existence does not exist, then it is impossible for it to exist.

 

[reddogwwa]

TO Shredder;
Your playing with the words to confuse people lol. . . . .and it worked.

But I guess I get what you mean.

That if god really does exist he still has to exist to this day otherwise we wouldn't exist. So without him at present time we would be no more.

On the other hand you say.

If god didn't exist then, then he doesn't exist to this day.

Your not proving that god exists or doesn't exist your kinda just stating the facts (not really facts, but more like your own twisted logic lol?).


But existence must exist, because if existence did not exist then the world as we know it would not exist. Or does existence only exist in consciousness minds?

also as to your whole "i didnt make these rules up" statement. You did. this is not logic. it doesnt make sense. give me rational thought as to why if something doesnt exist now it cant exist

TO The Z;
I get what he's saying and it does make sense. . .to me anyway.

Because "god" keeps everything going he is the creator of existence and without him existing we wouldn't exist. Without the existence(god) we couldn't be. God is existence. Existence is god.

Lets say from a Catholic view. God created earth in 7 days, there for God has began our existence. How can something (god) create existence and only come into existence later on into existence.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Your playing with the words to confuse people lol. . . . .and it worked.

My intent is not to confuse.

That if god really does exist he still has to exist to this day otherwise we wouldn't exist. So without him at present time we would be no more.

No, it's just that if he does exist, it's hardly going to be impossible for him to exist, is it?

On the other hand you say.

If god didn't exist then, then he doesn't exist to this day.

Incorrect. I said that if God doesn't exist, then his existence is impossible.

Your not proving that god exists or doesn't exist your kinda just stating the facts (not really facts, but more like your own twisted logic lol?).

Nope, it's proof.

 

[Walk On Home]

If nobody had ever thought of god your logic wouldn't have existed.
You cannot have logic to explain something that's non-existent, which is what god is.

That is a bias though, you could be right, but you're equally as wrong, there's no perfect logic to support this theory, it has flaws, thus you are not right, and you're not wrong, you can only defend yourself against those flaws, but you are still never right.
I'd like to see the man who has a perfect theory on such a subject.

 

[Resident]

Because your logic is contradictory.

You say that God is a necessary being; that is, he HAS TO exist, IF he exists. If it is not impossible for God not to exist, and he does not exist, it would be impossible for him to exist. But nothing about the idea of God is impossible. So God exists, right?

By saying that God exists, he becomes this necessary being. But, by God being a necessary being, it becomes impossible for God to not exist. Nothing about the concept of God is impossible; this includes the concepts of existence and non-existence.

So where is God?

Sorry, it was on the fouth page. ^^ that post