Logical proof that God exists

No. If you do not exist, it is not impossible that you exist. If God does not exist, then it is completely impossible for a God to exist.

 

I don't follow. Where is the probability in my existence if we establish that I do not exist?

 

I couldn't say, there are so many factors contributing to your existence.

 

I find that a good way to refute "proof" of gods is to apply it elsewhere. An argument that can apply to concepts of potentially infinite absurdity is not a very strong one.

0). The being Jim is defined as the man who built my computer, who will instantly die if he has never built my computer and is not currently building it, and who’s death will cause my computer to instantly break.

1). Jim is a necessary being.

You are not a necessary being. My computer will work perfectly well without you. You can either exist, or not exist, and my computer will continue on. Jim is not such a being, as will be explained a bit later.

2). Jim either exists or does not exist.

Just like anything else you can think of, Jim either exists, or doesn't exist.

3). If Jim exists, he necessarily exists.

If Jim exists, he has to exist, as shown by point 0. If Jim exists, then he is, by definition, the builder of my computer; since my computer works, he must still be alive, which is synonymous with existent.

4). If Jim does not exist, he necessarily does not exist.

If Jim does not exist, he cannot exist. If he did does not exist, then he did not build my computer, meaning that if he were to start existing he would instantly die, thus no longer existing.

5). The idea of Jim is not self-contradictory.

The idea of Jim has no contradictions in it. It is not impossible for Jim to exist.

6). Jim exists.

Since it is not impossible for Jim to exist, and since if Jim does not exist, he cannot exist, Jim exists.

 

Wrong. The world would get on just fine without Jim.

Humans are not necessary beings. Whether or not they exist does not affect the world at all. If one of them does not exist, that does not mean that it is impossible for them to exist, but rather, that they just don't exist.

 

heres my point of view god spelled backwards = dog dogs were worshipped by egyptians. egyptians are one of the oldest civilizations today. the whole world learns from egypt. we have discovered only a fraction of stuff in egypt compared to what is left... did egyptians create god in fear? did they speak to god or did god send them a message? speak your mind..





oh and quit trying to confuse people in hopes of them thinking your right we can think whatever we want quit posting stuff about existance... your only making yourself sound dumber by posting something confusing

 

Because you cannot understand what I say, that means I'm just trying to confuse people? I'm sorry if you do not comprehend, but that is not my fault.

 

why are you trying to convince people of your message if they can not understand you (i understand what you mean but im trying to help everyone else)


oh and stay on topic please

 

Some can understand me, and for those who cannot, I explain it to them.

What is this? Who are you, a newly joined leecher, to be telling me to stay on topic? I was the moderator of this forum for around five months, and am probably its most active member.

Anyway, small deviations from the subject are fine as long as what you discuss relates (in one step) to the original subject.

 

so what im a new member i could care less if you were a moderator if we dont follow rules then this will all turn to hell were al equal -.- (i have to worship you just because you were a moderator?)

 

You don't have to worship me, yet usually, there are some things that are just not done. You don't greet your 50 year-old boss with a slap on the back, and "Hey, how are ya?", do you? If a mod is breaking the rules, you don't barge in and say "o noz u brekin rulz halp halp plz", you quietly and discreetly notify somebody else.

 

well i see your point of view im just saying were all equal and i am just posting my view on murder

 

This isn't the murder thread, this is the thread that proves God's existence logically.

 

Correction: This is the thread that ATTEMPTS to prove God's existence logically.

/fails

Enjoyed our discussion in IRC, I'd make a bigger post if I had the time right now.

 

Well since somebody answered my St. Thomas Aquinas post...

He has proofs of why a God must exist

website is right here

http://www.saintaquinas.com/belief_in_God.html

 

What do we mean by existence? The very definition for existence is that a thing is said to exist if it relates in some way to some other thing. That is, things exist in relation to each other. For us, that means that something is part of our system ('The known world'). God is defined to be infinite, in which case it is not possible for there to be anything other than god because "infinite" is all-inclusive. But if there is nothing other than god then either god cannot be said to exist for the reason just explained, or god is the known world, in which case, by definition, god is not a god.

 

Yes, and it succeeds, too.

His first and second arguments fail on the premise that Occam's Razor would have us believe in a self-existing universe.

His third argument was extremely similar to the first and second arguments, and fails on the same premise.

His fourth argument is refuted by the fact that there is no theoretical limit on how hot an item may become. Also, morals can easily be explained by evolution.

the_wippit, I already answered that post.

 

Errmm? So your pulling for the theist side now? You went from completely denying that god existed and saying that its self contradictory and false to saying that it is possible....I say its awesome that you can realize that it could be true, thats one step closer then before I guess.
I agree with your statements and they are true under the circumstances of them being true.

 

I am not, for I remain an Atheist. I created this thread to see if anybody would understand what this logic really proves.

I did deny that there was a God, but I don't remember saying it was self-contradictory. That would be illogical of me.

I've always maintained that it was possible.

Well, do you actually appreciate the logic of what I am arguing, or do you just agree since you think God exists?

That's just a tautology; you could just as well say "This shape is a square under the circumstances of it being a square". Of course it is! What else would it be?

 

well if you think god isnt real but you say he is, why is he not real?