Jagex Warning - All you need to know

[dont leech]

Original post by Kyle at rscheata

I am making this topic so everyone will understand what is going on, and to stop more topics about this.

Now, let me address something to everyone. The email is legit. The headers match. Fagex has confirmed that the email is legit. Fagex has sent both emails and in game mail. The lawsuit filed is real.

So what does this mean to you?
If you didn't get the email/message then don't worry. If you did, then don't worry! I can't be 100% certain that you'll be safe, but the chances of this being just a scare tactic is VERY high.

Fagex will never email you about your in game account.
They aren't emailing you about your in game accounts, they are emailing you.

How did Fagex get my email?
They got your email from Paypal. Your paypal email that you used to buy auths with, is the emails they are targeting. All they had to do was ask paypal for the emails.

This is just a phisher email.
It's not. Phishers contain some sort of link. There are ZERO links in the email. Thus shooting down the possibility of it being a phisher.

Fagex doesn't send messages saying: "Dear Player,"
As I said, they got your email from Paypal. Not everyone who bought auths have their Paypal email linked to their RS accounts. Thus there is no character file on record for that email. So to save time figuring out if your email has an account attached to that email, they just sent as: "Dear Player,"

I did a Google search for this term "Action No. SACV11-00969-CJC" and got no hits. This is Fake.
Google is an internet search engine, it's not really a database search. Not to mention these are legal files/documents. Therefore Google's spiders won't be able to get to them.

So where can I find these case documents?
All credit goes to Pokerking for showing me Pacer.gov.

How do I use Pacer.gov?
Sign up for an account, I believe you have to be a US citizen in order to set up an account. You will have to enter your credit card info, as each page you view will cost $0.08. (Yup, darn government sites trying to make money on us ) Once you have an account you can search the records. I'll leave some images at the end of this thread.

How was Fagex able to even start this case? They are a UK Based company.
DMCA, that's how.

Can Fagex really sue us for botting?
Technically, YES! You can sue anyone for anything. That does not mean you are going to win the case though.

Will Fagex really sue us for botting?
Ummm... Who knows. Chances are, no. Logically speaking there are a ton of botters. And turning the tables on Fagex would be easy.

Examples:
Fagex would argue saying botters ruin the profits of their company.
Botters would say: We are more than half your player base, we pay for multiple accounts. Thus profits come from us.

Fagex would argue saying botters ruin the chances of the legit players.
Botters would say: We bot so we can have more time to our studies. Your game is addictive, and thus if we didn't bot we would be failures in life. Rs's nickname is RuneCrack, and Fagex is the dealers. This is causing a negative balance in a person's life.

It doesn't make any sense. Only $200-$2,500 fined in court, when the cost of lawyers would be much more.
The fine is not a flat $200-$2,500. It's per act/offence. So that fine could be really high! Now, granted. They would need to have evidence.

So overall, what is this?
It's a scare tactic. It would take a lot of time and money to go after every botter. Not to mention, due nature of their past, they tend to love to nitpick at things. Take Gold4Rs, they basically made them change their site to Gold4Fun.

Also, jurisdiction. I'm really curious to know if people who don't live in the US have gotten this email. Because if they did, then that's the icing on the cake? I'm almost certain that the jurisdiction can only be enforced on US botters. I could be wrong, but I believe that is right. So if someone lives in another country and got the email, this will better shoot the idea down.

So my last words, yes, although there is a case open, anyone can file something like this, but it doesn't mean you'll win.


If you have any questions, please ask them. I tried to cover all the common questions and concerns.

 

[Droppin' Pl8's]

lol he is trying to cover his ass. Paypal wouldn't be able to do that legally He simply opted out and gave them the info. I've fought with jagex several times and they had tried to do the same thing to reinet back in the day but paypal pretty much said fuck off and then sent a letter to reines about it.

So he can go ahead and lie all he wants it won't make a difference to me.

 

[Egu]

There is an official post about this on the RuneScape forums. Botters, be aware!

 

[Savvir]

If this really is a scare tactic... Well it got me for Christ sakes...

 

[MrInfinity]

lol he is trying to cover his ass. Paypal wouldn't be able to do that legally He simply opted out and gave them the info. I've fought with jagex several times and they had tried to do the same thing to reinet back in the day but paypal pretty much said fuck off and then sent a letter to reines about it.

So he can go ahead and lie all he wants it won't make a difference to me.

The could have been subpoenaed.

Proof please for your legal battles.

I've talked to kids from out of the states, and yes they've received the email. Some has even claimed they'd counter sue because it's illegal in their countries to send idle threats, and because DMCA doesn't apply in their country it would be considered an idle threat.

 

[Droppin' Pl8's]

The could have been subpoenaed.

Proof please for your legal battles.

I've talked to kids from out of the states, and yes they've received the email. Some has even claimed they'd counter sue because it's illegal in their countries to send idle threats, and because DMCA doesn't apply in their country it would be considered an idle threat.

Proof it was subpoenaed? There is none

As for my proof if you didn't notice reinet hasn't even been around for many years now and it was reines not I who had the court battles But as staff we were all aware of everything that took place.

On top of this I am one of the workers at the compassion center in Clio Michigan which has 3 of the biggest names that are fighting for legal marijuana in Michigan so I've learned a lot about the laws of possession of items etc. and they simply can not do what they're trying to say paypal did.

Furthermore if you want me to make you look even more ignorant read the tos of paypal then come back and try to hold this same debate. I would guess you have never even used paypal or you're one of these 12 year olds who make fake paypals and I would go further to presume if you are that you never read the tos of paypal and will probably think you got ripped off one day and wonder why.

 

[MrInfinity]

I've fought with jagex several times

I'm sorry pretty sure I means yourself.

I was asking you for proof of your battles, not proof of the subpoenas.

You go from saying the sold us out to it was subpoenaed, please make up your mind because selling out and being forced to by law are two different things.

We disclose information as required to comply with law or credit card rules, including but not limited to in response to a subpoena, warrant, court order, levy, attachment, order of a court-appointed receiver or other comparable legal process. As PayPal may outsource some of its functions, including data storage and processing, to related entities or service providers in foreign jurisdictions those related entities or service providers may be required to disclose your personal information pursuant to a subpoena or other legal process which originates in that foreign jurisdiction.

Taken from Paypals TOS and pretty sure that's exactly what I said.

 

[Droppin' Pl8's]

I'm sorry pretty sure I means yourself.

I was asking you for proof of your battles.

You go from saying the sold us out to it was subpoenaed, please make up your mind because selling out and being forced to by law are two different things.

Ok I'm sorry that my words were too much for you to understand it was obvious that I was not the one under the lawsuit as it was not my site\bot etc. I just helped in a small part of the developement. But if you weren't around at that time we obviously won it and continued with the bot then reines quit to persue his studies and is now doing very well for himself. and warthog took over and then sometime after it became wartnet.

As I already said I personally have not went to court for it but as I also said I have a great deal of knowledge about it.

You go from saying the sold us out to it was subpoenaed, please make up your mind because selling out and being forced to by law are two different things

man really... you're going to say something that stupid. I said there was no subpoena, learn to read.

Also if they were going to subpoena anything they would have held a court case for all the big companies to save time and make it a bigger threat. But as you see rsbuddies paid bots and their donators are all still fine for those who have only used rsbuddy.

As I said where is anything court related that includes jagex\paypal as I said before their is none.
Face it your beloved little bot maker sold you out deal with it. If it really did happen said bot maker could easily post the document saying it was court ordered but they didn't because it didn't happen.

GIVE UP.

 

[Frank0929]

Ok I'm sorry that my words were too much for you to understand it was obvious that I was not the one under the lawsuit as it was not my site\bot etc. I just helped in a small part of the developement. But if you weren't around at that time we obviously won it and continued with the bot then reines quit to persue his studies and is now doing very well for himself. and warthog took over and then sometime after it became wartnet.

As I already said I personally have not went to court for it but as I also said I have a great deal of knowledge about it.



man really... you're going to say something that stupid. I said there was no subpoena, learn to read.

Also if they were going to subpoena anything they would have held a court case for all the big companies to save time and make it a bigger threat. But as you see rsbuddies paid bots and their donators are all still fine for those who have only used rsbuddy.

Face it your beloved little bot maker sold you out deal with it.

A law student over at rsbuddy basically confirmed all this. Jagex stands on no grounds on obtaining information from Paypal.

 

[MrInfinity]

Ok I'm sorry that my words were too much for you to understand it was obvious that I was not the one under the lawsuit as it was not my site\bot etc. I just helped in a small part of the developement. But if you weren't around at that time we obviously won it and continued with the bot then reines quit to persue his studies and is now doing very well for himself. and warthog took over and then sometime after it became wartnet.

As I already said I personally have not went to court for it but as I also said I have a great deal of knowledge about it.



man really... you're going to say something that stupid. I said there was no subpoena, learn to read.

Also if they were going to subpoena anything they would have held a court case for all the big companies to save time and make it a bigger threat. But as you see rsbuddies paid bots and their donators are all still fine for those who have only used rsbuddy.

As I said where is anything court related that includes jagex\paypal as I said before their is none.
Face it your beloved little bot maker sold you out deal with it. If it really did happen said bot maker could easily post the document saying it was court ordered but they didn't because it didn't happen.

GIVE UP.

Something that stupid? Look at your post, it seems you're saying there's no proof not a subpoena, again you said "I've" implying you personally, you didn't mention any company in the first post. I'm going to refer you to learn some English.

Your wording is confusing because it's improper. "I've" doesn't mean a company you helped developed, there was no mention of a company just you having battles with Jagex. Anyone reading the first statement would have read it the same way I did.

Again I asked about proof, and you said, "proof it was subpoenaed?" "There is none." there was no change of subject, you'd still be referring to the proof not a subpoena.

 

[MdM]

I don't see how this is fake if I got the message in my runescape message center.

 

[Droppin' Pl8's]

Something that stupid? Look at your post, it seems you're saying there's no proof not a subpoena, again you said "I've" implying you personally, you didn't mention any company in the first post. I'm going to refer you to learn some English.

Your wording is confusing because it's improper. "I've" doesn't mean a company you helped developed, there was no mention of a company just you having battles with Jagex. Anyone reading the first statement would have read it the same way I did.

Again I asked about proof, and you said, "proof it was subpoenaed?" "There is none." there was no change of subject, you'd still be referring to the proof not a subpoena.

I see you love to take things out of context that is cute. I already stated in my second post I was with reinet which was a forum that produced a bot and sold it it was far from a company

"you're saying there's no proof not a subpoena"
What the hell are you even trying to say? I would practice what you preach about the whole English thing my friend. I simply said there is not proof of a subpoena ever being placed for the info that nexus claims was paypal's doing

You asked for proof and I told you reinet isn't even around anymore there would be no reason for myself to keep any physical information [ if I even had any physical information] but then again I guess I should have thought that like 6+ years later a child would argue with me because he can't handle the fact that he is wrong.

You're going to probably reply saying something about cosrob [or what ever his name is] said it was paypal I'd assume he doesn't know the full story so let me enlighten you a little further to the reasons why it wasn't paypal I give you the pm I sent to cos himself.

"It couldn't have been paypal. for multiple reasons that I will point out.

As I said before in the ToS of paypal they have a user confidentiality agreement clause which can not be broken unless by a federal government. Which on a side note is why anon went after them in the first place because they believe leaking info like that even to governments is wrong.

Second I'll point out that jagex lawyers would have been intelligent enough to round up all the big bot sites and have 1 case as would jagex themselves because it would scare more botters and be a bigger blow to the botting community plus save them literally 1000's of dollars.

Third. Even if it was paypal they would have had to contact nexus within 24 hours [if they live in the us anyways I'm not sure where nexus is based out of] or else there would easily be a counter claim.

Fourth: Jagex got every email address linked to nexus as well as all of the accounts saved on the bots account management. Which obviously paypal does not have."

I also just thought of this, if this was all real, nexus would have known about it still before jagex did anything and would\could have easily warned everyone before hand why after everyone suspecting them do they finally tell everyone? because they were caught plain and simple.

 

[Zerkerfist]

This whole thing is complete bullshit, and even laughable! This is such an obvious scare tactic.. The question I am more concerned with, is how did Jagex obtain these e-mails in the first place? PayPal seems very unlikely to be legally allowed to just hand out e-mails to prove who bought what. That infringes upon a person's rights.

And anybody who wants to laugh at me and say "This is real dude! Jagex is going to sue!". Well lets wait and see in the upcoming months what happens. I am 100% willing to bet that ANY AND ALL lawsuits that Jagex files will be against the MAJOR bot corporations and goldfarming companies, NOT against single, casual botters who purchased "Ibot" software from Nexus and botted a few times per week.

Also - I have hardly ever botted myself so I am not just some ignorant botter trying to stick up for the fact that I bot. I also did not recieve this email myself. I have had accounts on RS since 2000 and have spent probably wasted thousands of hours of my life playing Runescape legitimately, without the use of macro software. This is my OWN opinion, based on the fact that filing lawsuits against tens of thousands of 12 year old casual botters across the WORLD, is just complete and utter horseshit. The legal costs of lawyers and court time would FAR exceed any petty pocket change that they could hope to get from winning a case against you (ie. a few hundred bucks).

So everybody, relax. Jagex's ploy to scare the shit out of you is obviously working very well.

 

[ABCisDANK]

I'd be stoked to go to court against Jagex. Too bad I haven't gotten the email.

I'd send a reply such as: "Fuck you" or something along those lines.

 

[MrInfinity]

I see you love to take things out of context that is cute. I already stated in my second post I was with reinet which was a forum that produced a bot and sold it it was far from a company

"you're saying there's no proof not a subpoena"
What the hell are you even trying to say? I would practice what you preach about the whole English thing my friend. I simply said there is not proof of a subpoena ever being placed for the info that nexus claims was paypal's doing

You asked for proof and I told you reinet isn't even around anymore there would be no reason for myself to keep any physical information [ if I even had any physical information] but then again I guess I should have thought that like 6+ years later a child would argue with me because he can't handle the fact that he is wrong.

You're going to probably reply saying something about cosrob [or what ever his name is] said it was paypal I'd assume he doesn't know the full story so let me enlighten you a little further to the reasons why it wasn't paypal I give you the pm I sent to cos himself.

"It couldn't have been paypal. for multiple reasons that I will point out.

As I said before in the ToS of paypal they have a user confidentiality agreement clause which can not be broken unless by a federal government. Which on a side note is why anon went after them in the first place because they believe leaking info like that even to governments is wrong.

Second I'll point out that jagex lawyers would have been intelligent enough to round up all the big bot sites and have 1 case as would jagex themselves because it would scare more botters and be a bigger blow to the botting community plus save them literally 1000's of dollars.

Third. Even if it was paypal they would have had to contact nexus within 24 hours [if they live in the us anyways I'm not sure where nexus is based out of] or else there would easily be a counter claim.

Fourth: Jagex got every email address linked to nexus as well as all of the accounts saved on the bots account management. Which obviously paypal does not have."

I also just thought of this, if this was all real, nexus would have known about it still before jagex did anything and would\could have easily warned everyone before hand why after everyone suspecting them do they finally tell everyone? because they were caught plain and simple.

I took nothing out of context, I was discussing the first post, you started having issues with my confusion because of it, I was explaining it. I completely understand that you no longer meant yourself but in your first post you address it as yourself, not the company.

"it seems you're saying there's no proof not a subpoena" Who's taking what out of context? That seems clear to me.


Again I believe I've verified the fact I understand Paypal wouldn't/couldn't give out the information without a subpoena, that was mentioned in my first post. May I also point out my first post was the only one where I insinuated the possibility it could be Paypal if they got subpoenaed.

 

[aus aaz]

The internet... its serious business

 

[Lured Yah]

I didn't get the mail, could some post a screenshot or quote it here?

 

[MrInfinity]

I didn't get the mail, could some post a screenshot or quote it here?

Pretty sure it was quoted in the "official" nuke day thread but here you go.

Dear Player,

We have strong evidence that you may have purchased and used botting software in the past, specifically ibot software.

Botting and the cheating it brings is destroying your game, violates Jagex's rights under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), and any player that continues to engage in botting activity has no place in our community.

As part of bot nuke week we are offering you a 1 time amnesty and settlement lifeline, which is a chance to reform and change your ways. We'd like you to contribute to the community in a positive way, to compete on a level playing field as everyone else does and play in the true spirit of the game, with integrity. All of your accounts, main and otherwise, are now on our watch list and will be monitored for the use of ibot and all other inappropriate third-party software. Regardless of who you are or how long you've been with us, if you decide to cheat and bot ever again we will have no hesitation in: (1) permanently removing your account from our wonderful community in order to protect Jagex's rights under the DMCA, and (2) naming you as a defendant in Jagex Limited v. John Does, which is a lawsuit based on DMCA violations that is currently pending in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California (Civ. Action No. SACV11-00969-CJC).

Please note that this amnesty and settlement offer is protected under Fed. R. Evid. 408. If you ignore our offer and instead continue use botting software, we reserve our rights to pursue statutory damages against you for between $200 to $2,500 per act of past, present, and/or future botting in accordance with 17 U.S.C. 1203(c)(3).

We do hope you make the morally sound and lawful choice of turning your back on bots. We look forward to seeing you in game having fun in a way that is true to the spirit of fair play and respectful to your fellow players.

Yours sincerely,
Mark Gerhard

 

[MrInfinity]

The internet... its serious business

Damn right were else am I going to get my lol's my IRL friends aren't this funny.

 

[Droppin' Pl8's]

I took nothing out of context, I was discussing the first post, you started having issues with my confusion because of it, I was explaining it. I completely understand that you no longer meant yourself but in your first post you address it as yourself, not the company.

"it seems you're saying there's no proof not a subpoena" Who's taking what out of context? That seems clear to me.


Again I believe I've verified the fact I understand Paypal wouldn't/couldn't give out the information without a subpoena, that was mentioned in my first post. May I also point out my first post was the only one where I insinuated the possibility it could be Paypal if they got subpoenaed.

We were on the same level until my second statement and your third.

You took my "where is the proof of a subpoena? there is none and tried to mash it into a cluster fuck to where I agree with you or something lol if you didn't notice there is a little thing called a question mark which means I asked you a question but before you wasted your time searching I already answered it for you.

Please feel free to read my thread I created about this topic to go over any information you feel I am wrong about. I have a law student with a more educated response saying the same thing I am now.

Also if you did think it couldn't\wouldn't happen then why keep arguing about the subject?