Discussion in 'Something For All' started by Blupig, Dec 15, 2016.
where in the quran? waiting for your google BS
"Women cannot see their husbands when they die" stopped reading this sht LOL , get your info from infowars.com obv
Excuse me pal? Have you studied the Quran ?
Infowars, LOL !
I never really saw Canada as a melting pot. More of like a stew. Or one of those science experiments you did in grade school where the oil, water, milk, etc. all form different layers. There are some pretty distinct cultural separations (not as much with the younger generation)
Sorry off topic
First we need to define which islam you speak about; the islam from the Quran and Sunnah (practices of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH) or the islam which was innovated after his death by persons who separated themselves from the Quran and Sunnah and formed their own sects and laws. To find the true Islam one must abide by the information given in the Quran; which is solely the words of God; Not man.
Premium Service Provider
Surah An-Nisa [4:34]
Are you referring to this "words of God"
beating your wife if she doesn't listen to you and women must be obedient based on this being a very simple verse I consider it not compatible with modern society.
"Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."
(arabic can be found in links above)
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. - Basically Allah says men are in control of woman and own their wealth.
So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. - A good woman is obedient to husband and protects him.
But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
- If your wife is annoying and she doesnt listen to you first dont have sex with her for a bit and if that doesnt work strike her. If she obeys you then your golden if not see step 1 and repeat.
- 100% pure organic break down of Quran verse straight from
Al-Qur'an al-Kareem - القرآن الكريم owned and operated by muslims
It is permissible for a woman to see her husband after he has died? - islamqa.info this explain what he is referring to; in some cases a wife can't see her husband's dead body but not always.
this is for context and is not the best source but you can double check the quran yourself.
"So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. - A good woman is obedient to husband and protects him."
"The adulterer marries not but an adulteress or a Mushrikah and the adulteress none marries her except an adulterer or a Muskrik [and that means that the man who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan or idolatress) or a prostitute, then surely he is either an adulterer, or a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater, etc.) And the woman who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater) or an adulterer, then she is either a prostitute or a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan, or idolatress, etc.)]. Such a thing is forbidden to the believers (of Islamic Monotheism)."
"Beautified for men is the love of things they covet; women, children, much of gold and silver (wealth), branded beautiful horses, cattle and well-tilled land. This is the pleasure of the present world's life; but Allah has the excellent return (Paradise with flowing rivers, etc.) with Him. "
"Fair-seeming to men is made the love of desires, of women and sons and hoarded treasures of gold and silver and well-bred horses and cattle and tilth. This is the provision of the life of this world. And Allah -- with Him is the good goal (of life). "
"Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us [to understand]," it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few."
(3) Their is also a hadith that says out of every 1000 person 999 will go to hell. Narrated in Bukhari and Muslim: Allah will say, Send forth those who are destined for hell? Adam (pbuh) will say.Who are those? ...Allah will say Out of every thousand, 999 go to hell and 1 to paradise". - Bukhari 6:60:265
Before you decide to worry about simple and trivial things such as relationship with your wife (Which in most case isn't legal in the first place i.e adultery,fornification, sex outside marriage) why not worry if you are the 1 OUT OF that 999. Instead the Satan has made your deeds seem beautiful to you to distract you from finding the TRUE ISLAM.
Your relationship with your wife isnt trival to any extent to most married people in the western world so another sign of incompatibility with your indentity is brought to light.
You still have no retorted my break down of that Quran verse which is 100% clear and literal. I know your indoctrinated and its hard for you to think critically of your religion since you see it as a Identity but please understand that you are only Muslims because Mohammed slaughter and conquered your ancestors. Look into the history of the middle east. Islam is "New" in terms of religions.
You may personally agree that it is okay to beat your wife if she doesnt listen to you but; in todays society that is not socially acceptable. Hence why "Islam" itself is not compatible with western indentity nor western culture. Muslims on the other hand follow the Quran to varying degrees. So Moderate muslims can function well in society but will never completely mesh do to the difference in core values. Hence refer to the post above about a stew vs a melting pot.
Early Muslim conquests - Wikipedia I know wikipedia itself is not a trusted source but if you scroll down to the bottum you can find tons of courses of relevant topics.
Also anyone invoking "true islam" please refer to
Logical Fallacies» ‘No True Scotsman’ Fallacy
I also invite all muslims to comment on the verse above.
All mental gymnastics will be ignored though because even in "Arabic" the verse means exactly the same thing in 99% of interpetation.
@Tanged The cognitive dissonance is strong... With your cultural Murican indoctrination, properly nurtured by your Western Brainwashing Mafia (Flouride/Cell Waves/GMOs) fails to allow you to even realize the illusion you are living in for a single second. Making it easy to shove all this cultural bias down anyone's throat, whilst quoting a single verse from the quran out of context without having even READ THE ENTIRE Quran shows you are clearly a "Murican Islam phobia" possibly even believing that ISIS is really muslims.. The fact that one can have 4+ wives in islam (under conditions) and women aren't allowed to have more than one husband shows even the simplest mind that men are not equal to women. When Allah wanted a new ruler/caliph for the world after the previous Jinn kind, his first creation for the said position was a MAN "ADAM (AS)" and from ADAM he created for him a mate EVE.
but thanks for proving my point islam is not compatible with western world.
more context not a muslismphobe or a islamophobe because that implies an irrational fear.
I personally think "Islam" as a religion is just stupid and a just a more boring rip off Christianity and Judaism.
also who gives you the right to tell anyone who the "real" or fake muslims are?
also your a admitted sexist so you clearly cant be apart of our society.
The context changes nothing lol
Official Sythe Discord
join the sythe discord to debate me if your willing <3
All religion is trash, political instability in middle-eastern muslim countries left it unable to form into a modern western religion, instead it actually made them less secular and more conservative.
The current state of Islam is the result of complex social, economic, and political pressures. The Middle East has always been a war-zone, and that definitely includes expansionist and interventionist policies of the USSR and the U.S
Australia is proposing adding questions to their citizenship test that include things like "Is it acceptable to hit your wife when she does X" or "Is it acceptable to deny a female education", which probably do good in stopping undesirables from entering.
Moderate muslims exist, conservative muslims, namely Wahhabists, are the problem. Saudi Arabia does lots of work promoting it officially by the state.
As long as a muslim swears allegiance to the state and it's values, I don't have a problem, but I don't think it's particularly healthy for states to house cultures that are at ends with each other.
I agree with him 100% but; I think @PanicRoom believes men >woman and that beating your wife is okay so our words fall short. I would like to get back to the debate at hand
how do you defend Islam and why? When it is practiced outside of a moderate context, it contradicts all western egalitarian values. How do you support your argument?
Islam is terible we all know that already but still. back to topic at hand.
was this addressed to me?
the general response to anyone who classifies them self as left who try to treat islam like a protected thought.
Depends on what you mean by "defending," I guess. I don't try to defend them for some ideological points or something, I defend them from uneducated attacks but I try to attack any points that I see as misinformed. Islam just has a lot of them. And that doesn't mean I like them, either.
Islam has shitty scripture just like other religions, I defend Islam in the sense that I don't think the muslim world is in a position for it's ideology to evolve progressively like others have. The Middle East has not experienced stability in a long time, but when it *was* stable it's societies were more secular than they are now.
Correct, but I also think this applies to religion in general.
Agreed but I wasnt directing it towards you it was a bread general questions copied from orginal post
I *can* say that I respect Islam because it tends to lean toward nationalist left-leaning societies, though.
Two westerners debating the relevance of Islam in this time; When western "rights" came after "Islamic rights". Not once did I say that hitting your wife is right. But does that also mean that although the Quran speaks about a penalty for adultery and fornifcation then for us it being too "tough" we should water it down and end up in the same lack of morales society which was predicted by the quran as the "Minor/Major Signs of the end of days".
One westerner who is a blatant supporter of the Khazarian Puppet Adolph Tittler, who pretends to be an Jew but really is an (Ashkenazi) working for the Illuminati wiping out THE REAL JEWS. Seems like you guys are some serious History Buffs. Clearly, Islam doesn't need me to defend it. Your lack of competence or history destroys yourself.
The verse just basically says if you tell your wife " I want kebab for dinner" and she says " no kebab for you " dont sleep with her a bit then if she refuses further strike her. Its not that complicated.
Not a western either ; I identify as a Chinese woman. so 1 check your privilege.
@PanicRoom you lost already and you been memed you undebatable because you refuse to answer anything in any meaningful way your talking about GMOS and Illuminati and all that bunk.
Can another muslim please come and answer the above questions.
I know not all of you are like panic room and It is possible to have a respectable real conversation about the sensitive topic of your religion.
I invite panic room to chat with me in private about the topic still though.
@Tanged You are indeed wicked seed of satan from amongst the seed of man. You quote a verse out of context only to hope to bring shame or maybe contradiction without knowledge.
Surah An-Nisa (4:34)
34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.
First foremost what we read is merely a translation of the Arabic text. A translation meaning a human translates. Your translation and mine even differ. At the beginning of any translated quran it says THIS IS NOT THE QURAN BUT MERELY A TRANSLATION. So for the true meaning you'd need to learn arabic, and translate for yourself. Living in a time of misinformation is no time for an emerging Google Scholar.