Is suicide right?

[iFreshMez]

Hello everyone! For some strange reason what I have been thinking about suicide (don't worry, I am not thinking about committing the act, just curious about your guy's thoughts) and how society sees it.

Please feel free to post your thoughts (please be respectful and curtious, I don't want to see any disrepect or anyone not taking this seriously. You will be reported for spam.)

Personally, my this is my thought on suicide: Suicide is NOT the last thing people can fall back on. To me, suicide is an act of cowardice, an act only taken by those who cannot handle life. Some people see it as peaceful, but I don't. I believe there are much better alternatives than taking your own life.

Here is an example:

When I was in high school, a friend of mine's mother took her life because she caught her husband cheating on her. The only thing I could think of was "what a stupid choice, does she realize what she has done?" Was she REALLY that miserable that a man had cheated on her, that she had to go and take her own life and hurt many others? I can honestly say, I felt NO pity/sorrow for the mother as she made an unthoughtful decision that could not be reversed. And to make things worse, she left behind 3 daughters who now have to live with a father that made their mother commit suicide in the first place. Smart decision? I think not. Of course I tried my best to comfort her, and make her feel okay, but there is nothing and never will be that can fill in that void that she lost when her mother took her life.

And to finish this off, yes guys, I know my reasoning seems harsh, but it's my honest-to-god opinion.

 

[Promethium91]

As a person currently on anti-depressants, and a person who has self-harmed before in my life, I hold a very different viewpoint on suicide than anyone I've ever met.

I feel happy for people that commit suicide. Not sad, not angry.

People who commit suicide are suffering. There is no other way to put it. They're suffering and they have come to accept that suicide is the easiest way out. Am I saying it's the best way out? No, I'm saying it's the easiest, and that's an undeniable fact. It's easier to put a bullet into your brain than it is to get your life back on track and get over the fact that simply getting out of bed everyday is hard.

When someone commits suicide I can at least find some solace in the fact that I know they're no longer suffering. I know that they're free of whatever caused them so much pain.

Now before anyone gets defensive and doesn't understand what I'm trying to say, I'm not condoning suicide, I would never publicly do anything of the like, I'm saying it is understandable.

I think the people who are at fault, are the loved ones of people who commit suicide. The sick, disgusting people who have the nerve to call them cowards or selfish. Suicide is NOT a selfish act. People who have ever experienced chronic depression understand the plight of those that end their lives. It's not something to be taken lightly, but calling them cowards is just fucking wrong.

When you go through so much pain every day that you believe your only way out is to end your life, then you've earned the right to be free of any judgment anyone could pass on you. It's not selfish to leave your loved ones behind or people who depend on you, because you're not living for them, you're living for yourself. You're not a hammer or a screwdriver that was created for the sole purpose which is to be used.

And I'm not even going to go into the religious side of this debate, because anyone that says people that commit suicide are sinners or going to hell or something deserve to be shot. If you're going through extreme pain or sadness, a book or what some loon says shouldn't dictate your life, you deserve a way out.

 

[iFreshMez]

As a person currently on anti-depressants, and a person who has self-harmed before in my life, I hold a very different viewpoint on suicide than anyone I've ever met.

I feel happy for people that commit suicide. Not sad, not angry.

People who commit suicide are suffering. There is no other way to put it. They're suffering and they have come to accept that suicide is the easiest way out. Am I saying it's the best way out? No, I'm saying it's the easiest, and that's an undeniable fact. It's easier to put a bullet into your brain than it is to get your life back on track and get over the fact that simply getting out of bed everyday is hard.

When someone commits suicide I can at least find some solace in the fact that I know they're no longer suffering. I know that they're free of whatever caused them so much pain.

Now before anyone gets defensive and doesn't understand what I'm trying to say, I'm not condoning suicide, I would never publicly do anything of the like, I'm saying it is understandable.

I think the people who are at fault, are the loved ones of people who commit suicide. The sick, disgusting people who have the nerve to call them cowards or selfish. Suicide is NOT a selfish act. People who have ever experienced chronic depression understand the plight of those that end their lives. It's not something to be taken lightly, but calling them cowards is just fucking wrong.

When you go through so much pain every day that you believe your only way out is to end your life, then you've earned the right to be free of any judgment anyone could pass on you. It's not selfish to leave your loved ones behind or people who depend on you, because you're not living for them, you're living for yourself. You're not a hammer or a screwdriver that was created for the sole purpose which is to be used.

And I'm not even going to go into the religious side of this debate, because anyone that says people that commit suicide are sinners or going to hell are something deserve to be shot. If you're going through extreme pain or sadness, a book or what some loon says shouldn't dictate your life, you deserve a way out.

Great way to put it man, and after reading this, I must say, i've been through a time of chronic depression, was on Tofranil for a year, so I know the feeling of being at that all time low/that pain/that suffering. I don't know what got me out of it, i'm going to refrain from saying god, but it really felt like something not of this world. But, one thing for sure is, I actually never had the thought of suicide.

 

[-Ryan]

I think that people that commit suicide are pathetic. If you can not make it through life without killing yourself, you are a coward and taking the easy way out instead of being strong and fighting sadness.

 

[Snoopchicken]

Don’t do something permanently stupid just because you are temporarily upset.

 

[Promethium91]

Don’t do something permanently stupid just because you are temporarily upset.

I think that people that commit suicide are pathetic. If you can not make it through life without killing yourself, you are a coward and taking the easy way out instead of being strong and fighting sadness.

I'd like to invite you two to rid yourselves of ignorance and read my post.

Depression and suicidal thoughts aren't like a fucking cold, you can't just take some cough syrup and go about your day. It's a serious mental problem.

There is no reasoning provided behind why these people are pathetic, that's not an argument that's just an opinion without any support. Calling all people who commit suicide pathetic is just fucking stupid, you don't know the situation of every single person who ever commits suicide, and don't reply and back pedal saying there are exceptions now.

Permanently stupid? It's a permanent solution to a potentially temporary problem.

 

[Silent Fang]

I think that people that commit suicide are pathetic. If you can not make it through life without killing yourself, you are a coward and taking the easy way out instead of being strong and fighting sadness.

Thats not fuckin right. Please step down from your god position that you think so highly of yourself right now. That is so ignorant and you probably have no idea.

That's pretty much like saying all people who do drugs deserve to die.

Please grow the hell up because you have no idea what some of us go through in life nor the kind of pain and pressure we go through to even try and hold on.

 

[Snoopchicken]

Permanently stupid? It's a permanent solution to a potentially temporary problem.

It's not a solution. By killing yourself, you have given up. That's it. If I'm running a race, and find myself losing, stopping midway the race and leaving is like suicide. Did it help me win the race? No, because it's not a solution.

I don't agree with suicide at all because I value a human's life. What may seem as a hopeless case, may turn out to be someone really special. I mean, just look at these people: http://www.elistmania.com/juice/10_celebrities_who_attempted_suicide_but_were_unsuccessful/

And I read your post. Of course I'm ignorant on the matter - I've never felt suicidal in my life. But don't you think suicidal people are ignorant of ever improving their condition as well? I mean, to pick the option of 'suicide' as your solution obviously means you haven't considered your other options very carefully. Suicide is not a cold, but it is treatable - ESPECIALLY when the person feeling suicidal is a teenager, and hasn't experienced anything in life yet. There is no way a suicidal person has, in any way, a rational mindset.

If you're going to talk about 'understanding' what the other person is going through, perhaps you should check the final few sentences of your initial post. Did it ever occur to you that people say that because they care for the suicidal person, and don't want them to suffer any more than they are already suffering? Obviously not, as you think these people deserve to be shot. If you feel you have the right to take your own life, it definitely doesn't mean you have the right to take others. And yes, I'm speaking figuratively.

Edit: Don't forget, if we're talking about 'understanding', you have to understand what I'm doing. I'm not trying to shun suicidal people down. I'm trying to open their minds because, as I've said before, I value the essence of life, and suicidal people are so boggled up with emotions that it's very hard for them to think with a rational mindset. I'm only trying to help. If you can't see that, then take your emotions out of this argument, and try to use some rational reasoning.

Edit (Again): Also, I just want to clarify one more thing. I am against suicide (I would never feel 'happy' for someone committing suicide, as you have stated), but I can understand it in some cases. I personally know a mother who lost her son at a young age. The night he was buried, she killed herself on her son's grave (early in the morning). To be honest, I can see how it must have been really hard for her to deal with those emotions. But I also know a father who lost his job, and decided to kill himself with a shotgun, despite the fact that he had a family. That, I don't understand, condone, agree with, etc. one bit. For the mother, she can't ever replace her son. For the father, he can ALWAYS get a new job.

You see, the teenagers who say they are suicidal because their girlfriend broke up with them, or their lives are boring, or they feel they have no direction in their life because they're not doing well in school and don't have any spectacular talents, these are the people I am specifically talking about.

 

[GBP buyer]

I think suicide is okay, if someone is suffering that bad they deserve a way out.
Not just in depression for example if someone who had a motorbike crash is completely paralyzed and cant deal with it should be aloud to.

 

[Promethium91]

It's not a solution. By killing yourself, you have given up. That's it. If I'm running a race, and find myself losing, stopping midway the race and leaving is like suicide. Did it help me win the race? No, because it's not a solution.

I don't agree with suicide at all because I value a human's life. What may seem as a hopeless case, may turn out to be someone really special. I mean, just look at these people: http://www.elistmania.com/juice/10_celebrities_who_attempted_suicide_but_were_unsuccessful/

And I read your post. Of course I'm ignorant on the matter - I've never felt suicidal in my life. But don't you think suicidal people are ignorant of ever improving their condition as well? I mean, to pick the option of 'suicide' as your solution obviously means you haven't considered your other options very carefully. Suicide is not a cold, but it is treatable - ESPECIALLY when the person feeling suicidal is a teenager, and hasn't experienced anything in life yet. There is no way a suicidal person has, in any way, a rational mindset.

If you're going to talk about 'understanding' what the other person is going through, perhaps you should check the final few sentences of your initial post. Did it ever occur to you that people say that because they care for the suicidal person, and don't want them to suffer any more than they are already suffering? Obviously not, as you think these people deserve to be shot. If you feel you have the right to take your own life, it definitely doesn't mean you have the right to take others. And yes, I'm speaking figuratively.

Edit: Don't forget, if we're talking about 'understanding', you have to understand what I'm doing. I'm not trying to shun suicidal people down. I'm trying to open their minds because, as I've said before, I value the essence of life, and suicidal people are so boggled up with emotions that it's very hard for them to think with a rational mindset. I'm only trying to help. If you can't see that, then take your emotions out of this argument, and try to use some rational reasoning.

Edit (Again): Also, I just want to clarify one more thing. I am against suicide (I would never feel 'happy' for someone committing suicide, as you have stated), but I can understand it in some cases. I personally know a mother who lost her son at a young age. The night he was buried, she killed herself on her son's grave (early in the morning). To be honest, I can see how it must have been really hard for her to deal with those emotions. But I also know a father who lost his job, and decided to kill himself with a shotgun, despite the fact that he had a family. That, I don't understand, condone, agree with, etc. one bit. For the mother, she can't ever replace her son. For the father, he can ALWAYS get a new job.

You see, the teenagers who say they are suicidal because their girlfriend broke up with them, or their lives are boring, or they feel they have no direction in their life because they're not doing well in school and don't have any spectacular talents, these are the people I am specifically talking about.

It's a solution. Okay so someone in pain kills themselves. Are they still in pain? No, they're dead. Problem solved. You can't just say it's not a solution.

It's a way of dealing with the situation, it's as simple as that.

Not all depression/suicide is caused by just one event. Just losing a girlfriend, or a job, or a family member is a very specific group of people. I mean scientifically they still haven't determined a cause of depression(which leads to suicide) so trying to argue against the reasoning behind it is facile at best.

Now look at the world. People are greedy as fuck, millions are starving in Africa, and tens of millions don't have suitable shelter, and we're all inevitably going to die anyways. I sit on my ass inside on the computer most the time anyways and the rest of the time I sit at school doing busy work. Do you think that makes me feel good? No, it doesn't. I'd rather be dead than alive. I don't think life is very 'pleasant'. You work your whole life and then you die. But don't pity me, or worry about me, that wasn't the point of me bringing myself up, I'm saying that it isn't as simple as people like to make it sound. There is almost never just ONE reason for depression.

Well, supposedly I'm the kind of person you're directing your post at. So would you like to enlighten me on what right anyone has to tell me if I can or can not kill myself? It's my own life.

Now yes, I'll agree a 16 year old kid killing himself over a girlfriend that left him is stupid, but trying to generalize and group all people that commit suicide together is just ridiculous. You might not agree that suicide is the best way out for someone in significant pain, but it is the easiest, and logically I'd rather take the easy way than the hard one.

People who say that people who commit suicide are selfish, are selfish. It's selfish to make them sit through that just so they don't hurt anybody else.

 

[m1cr0where]

Personally if you think suicide is right, Try it and tell me what you think...Wait.. shit I'm going to hell for that one. In reality if one is so unhappy with one's life and is unwilling / unable to further the pursuit for happiness, it's no ones to question the act. Only mourn and hope he / she found it. But life moves on.

 

[Soccer is Life]

I think if somebody is unhappy and does not want to live anymore, they should be able to take their life without criticism. To others that is not the best solution, but to the person it may be, you don't know what they are feeling, what is going on in their life. People call it selfish, but isn't it selfish for those people to want them to stay alive, when they want to die? You want them to continue their lives in a situation that makes them miserable? It's that persons life, it's their decision on what to do with it.

 

[Finecon]

You're definitely right. Suicide affects so many other people, most importantly families and loved ones. It's a complete tragedy when parents find out their kid took his or her own life. You can even say that suicide is a selfish action, and that the person who committed it only thought for his/herself. By committing suicide, you essentially gave up on life because it was too hard...and no one likes people who give up.

..But in the end, who's in charge of your life? Yeah suicide is selfish and tragic, but all of us decide what to do with our lives, and if it's to end it, then we have the choice to.

 

[Emperor Nero]

I think people who kill themselves are selfish and are cowards. It's not a god position or anything, but looking back through my life I realize that. I have been there before so don't start going 'You don't know how it feels' because that is making an assumption. I think back about every time I wanted to end it and I realize that it would create so many problems and I don't want to burden my entire family with the grief, the cost, the pain, the pain, and everything that goes along with it because I was being selfish and couldn't handle my petty first world problems. There are people in the world starving, dying of diseases, that have no housing or fresh water and I want to take my life over a woman or because I don't have any money. There are more people in the world then just you and when people commit suicide they're not thinking about anyone else but yourself and I think that is stupid. But if you don't want to be here that is cool too, people can do whatever they want.

And whoever the hell said suicide is logical is dead wrong. Human nature and instinct is self-preservation not self-harm. Suicide is an incredibly poor solution for an incredibly illogical person, but it's easy and people love to take the easy way out.

 

[McKinnonj]

I think that people that commit suicide are pathetic. If you can not make it through life without killing yourself, you are a coward and taking the easy way out instead of being strong and fighting sadness.

No. What's pathetic is someone pushing you far enough to even consider it. Is that right? There's cases constantly of people who commit suicide because of bullying or discrimination. If you push somebody that far, you deserve to die. That's unrighteous, and unjust. If you lack the funds to get away from that environment, and you're already mentally ill, in your eyes suicide is the easy way out. Until you've been to that point, you know nothing of their perspective.

 

[Silent Fang]

Thank you mck for saying that. I couldn't have worded that any better.

 

[Snoopchicken]

It's a solution. Okay so someone in pain kills themselves. Are they still in pain? No, they're dead. Problem solved. You can't just say it's not a solution.

It's a way of dealing with the situation, it's as simple as that.

Not all depression/suicide is caused by just one event. Just losing a girlfriend, or a job, or a family member is a very specific group of people. I mean scientifically they still haven't determined a cause of depression(which leads to suicide) so trying to argue against the reasoning behind it is facile at best.

Now look at the world. People are greedy as fuck, millions are starving in Africa, and tens of millions don't have suitable shelter, and we're all inevitably going to die anyways. I sit on my ass inside on the computer most the time anyways and the rest of the time I sit at school doing busy work. Do you think that makes me feel good? No, it doesn't. I'd rather be dead than alive. I don't think life is very 'pleasant'. You work your whole life and then you die. But don't pity me, or worry about me, that wasn't the point of me bringing myself up, I'm saying that it isn't as simple as people like to make it sound. There is almost never just ONE reason for depression.

Well, supposedly I'm the kind of person you're directing your post at. So would you like to enlighten me on what right anyone has to tell me if I can or can not kill myself? It's my own life.

Now yes, I'll agree a 16 year old kid killing himself over a girlfriend that left him is stupid, but trying to generalize and group all people that commit suicide together is just ridiculous. You might not agree that suicide is the best way out for someone in significant pain, but it is the easiest, and logically I'd rather take the easy way than the hard one.

People who say that people who commit suicide are selfish, are selfish. It's selfish to make them sit through that just so they don't hurt anybody else.

You have it completely wrong. Looking at dictionary definitions for the word 'solution' is irrelevant. Let's say that my name is Bob, and I don't like a guy named Joe because his face is ugly, and I really just don't like seeing it. According to your dictionary definition, killing Joe would be a solution to my problem. But is it really a solution?

You see, when we use the word 'solution' we mean a GOOD solution. And suicide is NOT a good solution. My previous analogy still stands.

And come on, we don't need science to prove what can cause depression. Loss of a family member can cause depression. Staying at home all day doing nothing can cause depression. Just because a causal link cannot be established doesn't mean it's not downright obvious. Don't forget, a few years ago, a causal link for smoking and lung cancer couldn't even be proved by science. Yet we all knew that smoking does cause lung cancer from studies showing a correlation.

Sometimes I can understand one major event (such as the case with the mother given before) than many small, relatively insignificant events (I don't have many friends, I don't look attractive at all, I'm obese/extremely skinny, etc.) which can lead to depression, because the insignificant links CAN be solved. And no, suicide WON'T solve them at all because once you die, you'll still die friendless, unattractive, obese/extremely skinny, etc. And this is not a sweeping generalization. People don't just wake up one day, feel suicidal, and commit suicide the following week, unless something extreme has happened in their life (as is the case with the mother), which is a form of depression I can understand. But in majority of cases, suicide is the final 'answer' to a long battle with depression. And it's the wrong answer.

You know, if a suicidal person were to tell me exactly what his/her problems were, I'd really try to help them. But the problem is, most suicidal people are in such an irrational mindset that they sometimes cannot clearly express their thoughts. Plus, it's very hard for them to properly understand the advice a person with a rational mindset is trying to give. This is because a suicidal person is inundated with emotions. That's why suicide is hard for both psychiatrists and psychologists to treat.

I don't have the right to force you to do anything. But I do have the right to voice my opinion on the matter. And, as I said before, my opinion is here to help, not to shun. And no, the post is not directed at you. I don't even know your background.

Suicide is the easiest way out. But being the easiest doesn't make it any bit more right. I could be feeling down, and really craving to feel some euphoria. Does that mean that taking cocaine (which is the easiest 'solution' to my problem) is a good solution? Nope. I could also be weak and scrawny. My options are going to the gym for a good year or two, or taking steroids. Steroids are the easiest way out. Does that make them right? Again, nope.

And I never said suicide is a selfish act. Suicide is a very serious issue. And we do try to help them, but, as I said before, suicidal people are in such an irrational mindset that they interpret everything said to them negatively. Even in the case of the religious people - their INTENT was to help the suicidal person and keep him/her alive, which also shows care. The suicidal person, however, cannot see this, and just views them as a nuisance.

When someone is that irrational, I don't think it's a problem for someone in a more rational mindset to give them advice.

And whoever the hell said suicide is logical is dead wrong. Human nature and instinct is self-preservation not self-harm. Suicide is an incredibly poor solution for an incredibly illogical person, but it's easy and people love to take the easy way out.

Exactly. Suicidal people contradict the essence of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. That's why I continue on saying they are in an extremely irrational mindset.

 

[0belisk]

I don't believe suicide is right, and should never be justified, things always have the ability to CHANGE and get better, gradually.

However, everybody should have the privilege and right to suicide if they undoubtable, unquestionably desire it for whatever reason, yes its a complete waste of life and is very sad, but everyone is entitled to control their own life, including the concept of ending it if required.

 

[Promethium91]

You have it completely wrong. Looking at dictionary definitions for the word 'solution' is irrelevant. Let's say that my name is Bob, and I don't like a guy named Joe because his face is ugly, and I really just don't like seeing it. According to your dictionary definition, killing Joe would be a solution to my problem. But is it really a solution?

You see, when we use the word 'solution' we mean a GOOD solution. And suicide is NOT a good solution. My previous analogy still stands.

And come on, we don't need science to prove what can cause depression. Loss of a family member can cause depression. Staying at home all day doing nothing can cause depression. Just because a causal link cannot be established doesn't mean it's not downright obvious. Don't forget, a few years ago, a causal link for smoking and lung cancer couldn't even be proved by science. Yet we all knew that smoking does cause lung cancer from studies showing a correlation.

Sometimes I can understand one major event (such as the case with the mother given before) than many small, relatively insignificant events (I don't have many friends, I don't look attractive at all, I'm obese/extremely skinny, etc.) which can lead to depression, because the insignificant links CAN be solved. And no, suicide WON'T solve them at all because once you die, you'll still die friendless, unattractive, obese/extremely skinny, etc. And this is not a sweeping generalization. People don't just wake up one day, feel suicidal, and commit suicide the following week, unless something extreme has happened in their life (as is the case with the mother), which is a form of depression I can understand. But in majority of cases, suicide is the final 'answer' to a long battle with depression. And it's the wrong answer.

You know, if a suicidal person were to tell me exactly what his/her problems were, I'd really try to help them. But the problem is, most suicidal people are in such an irrational mindset that they sometimes cannot clearly express their thoughts. Plus, it's very hard for them to properly understand the advice a person with a rational mindset is trying to give. This is because a suicidal person is inundated with emotions. That's why suicide is hard for both psychiatrists and psychologists to treat.

I don't have the right to force you to do anything. But I do have the right to voice my opinion on the matter. And, as I said before, my opinion is here to help, not to shun. And no, the post is not directed at you. I don't even know your background.

Suicide is the easiest way out. But being the easiest doesn't make it any bit more right. I could be feeling down, and really craving to feel some euphoria. Does that mean that taking cocaine (which is the easiest 'solution' to my problem) is a good solution? Nope. I could also be weak and scrawny. My options are going to the gym for a good year or two, or taking steroids. Steroids are the easiest way out. Does that make them right? Again, nope.

And I never said suicide is a selfish act. Suicide is a very serious issue. And we do try to help them, but, as I said before, suicidal people are in such an irrational mindset that they interpret everything said to them negatively. Even in the case of the religious people - their INTENT was to help the suicidal person and keep him/her alive, which also shows care. The suicidal person, however, cannot see this, and just views them as a nuisance.

When someone is that irrational, I don't think it's a problem for someone in a more rational mindset to give them advice.



Exactly. Suicidal people contradict the essence of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. That's why I continue on saying they are in an extremely irrational mindset.

You immediately interpret suicide as a negative action. You didn't say anything about the solution being 'good' or 'bad' simply, it being a solution. Suicide is a solution regardless.

It's an escape. There is no after-life, we're just a bag of chemicals, once we're gone we're gone. If living is painful then I don't see any reason why you shouldn't change that, one way or another.

Is suicide 'natural'? No. Is suicide 'ethical'? No. But fuck that, people say suicide is a cowardly way out, but I don't care if it is. I'm not going to judge the people who choose to take that way out, nor do I regret them not getting better.

Is suicide right? Well it depends what definition you use of the word right. I believe it is a correct action to take to escape suffering and depression. You probably think I'm some diluted and cold fuck, but I'd be truly grateful if someone had put me out of my misery when my depression started 4 years ago. If you can't understand that, that's your problem, not mine. This is why people don't understand my point of view, because I've been in that spot where all I wanted when I went to sleep was to not wake up in the morning, and all I wanted in the morning was to be dead.

I'm on anti-depressants and still have problems with my anxiety, it doesn't take much to send me spiraling back into that pit. Honestly, suicide is the easy way out, and if it weren't so painful I probably would have taken it. I believe in mercy killing too.

You said suicide wasn't a good solution. Why not? It ends the pain and prevents the person from ever suffering again.

You sound like you're trying to take a purely logical stance towards suicide. Well humans aren't logical creatures.

 

[Snoopchicken]

You immediately interpret suicide as a negative action. You didn't say anything about the solution being 'good' or 'bad' simply, it being a solution. Suicide is a solution regardless.

No, you're simplifying solution to its dictionary definition, as I've stated before. I don't need to say whether a solution is 'good' or 'bad', it should be implied - generally you look for 'good' solutions to problems. This is extremely obvious. But in any case, it was explicitly said in my last post. If I don't like Joe because his face is ugly, killing him is not a viable solution. The example still holds.

It's an escape. There is no after-life, we're just a bag of chemicals, once we're gone we're gone. If living is painful then I don't see any reason why you shouldn't change that, one way or another.

Your beliefs. But based on your beliefs, it's more of a cessation than an escape. If that's the case, one should be even more concerned with committing suicide.

Is suicide 'natural'? No. Is suicide 'ethical'? No. But fuck that, people say suicide is a cowardly way out, but I don't care if it is. I'm not going to judge the people who choose to take that way out, nor do I regret them not getting better.

Exactly my point from before. People with a more rational mindset are trying to help, but people with a suicidal mindset (not you) are ignorant to all forms of help, and maintain their stubbornness.

Is suicide right? Well it depends what definition you use of the word right. I believe it is a correct action to take to escape suffering and depression. You probably think I'm some diluted and cold fuck, but I'd be truly grateful if someone had put me out of my misery when my depression started 4 years ago. If you can't understand that, that's your problem, not mine. This is why people don't understand my point of view, because I've been in that spot where all I wanted when I went to sleep was to not wake up in the morning, and all I wanted in the morning was to be dead.

Again, your beliefs. But even though I don't know you, I'm glad you're here. Again, we argue against suicide because we care, not because we hate. Aren't you glad you didn't commit suicide 4 years ago now? If you can make it, don't you think others can make it? And don't you think 'making it' is a much better solution than suicide?

You said suicide wasn't a good solution. Why not? It ends the pain and prevents the person from ever suffering again.

I already told you why it wasn't a good solution. You skipped lots of points in my posts. I told you about the mother and the father - both of them committed suicide, but both for different reasons. For the mother, there was no other solution to her problems - she lost her son, and she cannot replace her son, so I can somewhat see where she's coming from. For the father, he simply lost his job. He can ALWAYS get a new job.

And then I split suicide up for you, because talking about it just by saying 'suicide' is extremely vague. There are people who commit suicide because of an extreme event in their lives which cannot be fixed and may be too hard for them to deal with (like the mother), and there are those who commit suicide due to the passing of relatively insignificant events over a passage of time (like the father, or the teenager breaking up from his girlfriend, or the obese person disappointed with their image, etc.) - and then I told you that in this case, THESE PROBLEMS CAN BE FIXED. That's why suicide IS NOT a good solution here because there are better solutions.

So, take it this way. There are 2 main cases of suicide:

1. A permanent problem (such as losing a loved one)
2. A potentially temporary problem (being obese, losing a job, etc.)

And, linking back to my first post which you completely shunned, I said: "Don’t do something permanently stupid just because you are temporarily upset."

I'm speaking about the second form of suicide. Suicide is a cessation. A temporary problem can be treated. If there is the option of treatment, why would one even consider suicide? Don't you just want to 'escape' from your negative feelings? Treatment can offer that to you as well - with better benefits.

I'm essentially repeating myself here. I've already said these things before.

You sound like you're trying to take a purely logical stance towards suicide.

Because taking an illogical, irrational stance, with a mind clouded by emotions is better, no? According to the Theory of Knowledge, emotions and reasoning are both included as ways of knowing. In most cases, emotions always boggle up reasoning to the point where it's hard for both of them to coexist in a single thought process.

You mentioned science before. Science is based on reasoning. You seem to be against religion. Religion is based on emotion. Now tell me, why can't you keep your same mindset in regards to suicide?

Well humans aren't logical creatures.

I'll stop there. You don't have any authority to make such a claim and to speak on behalf of the entire human species is rather arrogant to me.

If your age on your profile is correct, you're only 17, my friend! To say that suicide is a better option than living life is like me saying chocolate cake is better than strawberry cake, even though I haven't tried the latter. You've still got LOTS to go. You haven't been to college yet. You haven't met the woman of your dreams yet. You haven't had a family yet.

Believe me, when you're so young, the world looks different to you. But when you grow, things change. To make a decision when you haven't seen everything yet cannot be, in any way, rational.

Before you were telling me about how in the end, we all die. It's inevitable. So from a rational mindset, there's really no point in living. But you see, this is where emotions come in, and play their role. This is where things like love, happiness, etc. make us want to live every second of our lives. For me to want others to experience this is anything but selfishness - I'm only trying to help!