Help us simplify the Sythe Rules

[Infernal Dave]

I am also aboard the train of having exceptions for gravedigging particular threads. In my opinion, the Something for All forum has lots of old threads that would be interesting to continue the conversations.

Particularly, I'd like to post in some of your older threads @Sythe about your thoughts on libertarianism, the other forms of government and how it's affected the world since 9 years have passed since you've made the thread. (I'm ashamed to admit when I registered many years ago, I wasn't in a position to think critically about a lot of the threads in the SFA forum. but enough of my babbling, lol)

(On an unrelated note, it would be interesting for the SFA forum to have more traffic like years before )

 

[Vlad]

Hacked Skype & PM Rule In Official Rules

tl;dr - please add a clear and concise rule regarding hacked Skype accounts and how they're linked to the individual's accountability on Sythe

Edit: taken care of by Meteor, thanks

 

[Champ]

Bump. I would love to hear everyone's opinions / thoughts on this today.

 

My opinion, may need to change some things in the future.

 

[Champ]

If anyone would like to leave suggestions on rule changes / reforms, please do so.

I would love to read everyone's replies and suggestions, moving forward.

 

Users will be banned permanently for the following:

• Posting Infected Files/Malware: Keyloggers, viruses, trojans, etc...
• "Blackhat"/Malicious Activities: Using software tools for deceptive, malicious, or harmful intent directly or indirectly affecting Sythe users. Punishment for these offences will be dealt with on case-by-case basis, but will most likely result in a permanent ban.
• NB: 'Counter-scamming' (attempting to recover your property from a scammer) is not against the rules, but attempting to scam someone who previously scammed you is. There is a big difference between the two. You should be aware that if you attempt to recover your property from a scammer, that scammer may attempt to report you on Sythe. If you have insufficient evidence to back your claims that you were indeed recovering your stolen property the staff may be forced to ban you.

Additional Notes/Clauses:

• Anti-scamming without a staff members approval will be punished:

Still a bunch of overlap/repeats in addition to my post on the first page. ^

Also for things such as:

Users will be banned permanently for the following:

• Scamming: Or any suspicious behavior similar to scamming (attempting to scam), this includes RuneScape name Sniping. This also includes:
  • Using Sythe as a means to lure other Sythe members will result in a permanent ban. However, luring done without the use of Sythe is fine.
  • Impersonating other members, and any other similar behavior.
  • Impersonating ranks through the use of your signature.

Couldn't this just be shortened to "Scamming, Luring or Impersonating other users", and then the name sniping be specific to the rules of the names market?

Also some things seem a little redundant:

• Advertising MM Services: You may not advertise MM services anywhere except the User Services and MiddleMan Application forums.
• Ignoring Staff Decisions: Ignoring staff orders, recreating locked or deleted threads or posts, evading censors, etc, will normally result in an infraction although any punishment is permitted on a case by case basis.

And then you could just have a bunch of stuff which could better fit a "These are not allowed on Sythe" section of their own:

• PIN Sales: Sale of membership PINs is strictly prohibited. Any discussion of this will be infracted. If it continues, you will be banned for 1 month.
• Unban Services: Selling an unbanning service for any game is not allowed.
  Trying to Sell Something that is Free: For example, Sythe's old autos or some free bot. However, selling the method of how to acquire these items is permitted in the relevant forum.
• Giving away accounts: Threads or posts giving away accounts should be reported and will be closed with a result of an infraction to the original thread poster. We do not allow accounts to be given away; it's a scam as they will be recovered later on.

In general I feel like it's still overly fleshed out and overly explained. Take this as an example:

• Porn/Gore: Posting pictures, videos, links to websites related to porn/extreme gore, etc, will lead to an infraction. The staff will decide what constitutes porn or gore. It is not for you to decide. Repeat offenses may result in additional punishment. Steer clear of posting anything which could be interpreted as this.

Why not just have this

• Porn/Gore: Posting pictures, videos or links to websites related to porn/gore

 

[Champ]

Thank you for the feedback @Amei, if anyone else would like to chime in, please do so!

I love reading the vague areas / concerns in the current rules, I will do my best to assist anyone in updating / discussing on current topics that you believe need to be reformed. Always remember your input matters!

You contact me on Discord.
Discord: Champ#6303

 

[S]

I haven't read all the preceding posts, however, one thing I've always stood by, is that minimising intervention regarding all things market/trading is something we should aim to encourage, and set in stone. We should allow for the market to run its own course, and not constantly nit-pick, due concern for other users. We aren't here to babysit them, and constant intervention and patrolling of the market just results in an overly saturated market place, and discourages healthy growth.

Another issue/rule I oppose is - disallowing services/certain niche markets solely based on the fact that it may be harmful to an individual due to the lingering aspect that it allows for users to potentially be scammed. This is a silly ideology and stance IMO. We aren't here to babysit every individual. We aren't their monitors, and we should by now, accept that people are going to get scammed, no matter what we do. Basing our market and rules on those users is a terrible business ideology to maintain. I understand erring on the side of caution, but disallowing the aforementioned due to potential harm is unjustified. It's far better to allow whatever users have to offer/sell, and let the customers decide if they wish to opt into said service.

The fact that we are a black market site per se, but frown upon actual black market services/trades is silly.

@Sythe

Bump.

Also, can a Mod or someone perhaps post the rules in a quoteable post. I'm unable to quote the content within the official rules thread (The Official Sythe.org Rules).

I'll offer my input once it's quotable.

Thanks.

 

[malakadang]

It might be better to split the rules into two. The first part will simply detail what isn't allowed on Sythe (and should be no more than 1 line), and a guideline penalty. The second part should elaborate on what isn't allowed in the first part (eg define what spamming means, and give examples).

That way, you get the benefit of a more cleaner and succinct exposition of the rules (first part), yet still provide detail and guidance that is defined elsewhere (second part). I also agree with Sellerman that a lot of the rules pertaining to the market should be rolled back, and if something bad happens due to the absence of a particular rule, it can just be reintroduced.

 

Bump.

Also, can a Mod or someone perhaps post the rules in a quoteable post. I'm unable to quote the content within the official rules thread (The Official Sythe.org Rules).

I'll offer my input once it's quotable.

Thanks.

copy pasta'd, but

The Official Sythe.org Rules

A reminder from Sythe.org's administration: We make a best effort to ensure that the person using a Sythe account is the original owner of that account, but can never be certain. It is your responsibility to establish the identity of the people you trade with to your satisfaction. We are not responsible for any loss or injury caused by use of our site.

This is how it works here at Sythe.org:

• Users will be given infractions when minor rules are broken
  • Infractions expire after 1 month.
  • A user who receives 5 infractions will receive a 3 day ban.
  • A user who receives 7 infractions will receive a 7 day ban.
• Users will have more severe punishments as outlined below when major rules are broken.
• If a user commits any unconscionable act not explicitly in the rules, or has repeatedly broken rules, the staff reserves the right to punish the user in any way.

Users will receive 1 infraction for the following:

• Spamming:
  • Posting short, unhelpful comments (such as "cool", "nice acc,", "added" etc), including free bumps on other's threads and bumps on stickies.
  • Posting for the sole purpose of increasing post count.
  • Posting comments with little to no relevance to the topic.
  • Creating multiple threads advertising the same thing, regardless of the section.
  • Creating multiple threads in one market section. Additional items can be combined and sold on one thread.
• Flaming, Harassment, Trolling:
  • Using excessive profanity, insults, or derogatory comments towards another user.
  • Partaking in behaviour intended to disturb or upset another user, creating bounty threads on another user.
  • Deceiving members or staff for fun, humor, or to cause drama.
  • Posting purposely to anger or to elicit a negative response from others for fun, humor, or to cause drama.
• Excessive Bumping: No double posting or bumping in threads within 8 hours of your last post in a given thread.
  
• Bogus Posting or Bumping: All posts and bumps in market/trading sections of the site must relate to bona-fide (real) trades. You may not bump your sales thread if you are not legitimately ready to trade at the time of bumping. You may not post or bump with the sole intention of increasing post count or presence.
• Accusing Someone of Scamming Without Proof: Posting on someone's thread accusing them of scamming without appropriate proof (chat logs do not count as proof). To report a scammer, visit the Report a Scammer section.
  • Genuine negative feedback about a negative experience with user that does not accuse them of scamming is allowed.
• Begging: Asking to receive anything for free or asking for a staff position on Sythe.org.
  
• Thread Hijacking: Offering your services/sales on someone else's services or sales thread.
  
• Trying to Sell Something that is Free: For example, Sythe's old autos or some free bot. However, selling the method of how to acquire these items is permitted in the relevant forum.
  
• Giving away accounts: Threads or posts giving away accounts should be reported and will be closed with a result of an infraction to the original thread poster. We do not allow accounts to be given away; it's a scam as they will be recovered later on.
  
• Signature Violations: Maximum of 350 pixels in height including all quotes/text/pictures in it and a maximum of 650 pixels in width with all text/quotes/pictures. Additionally, images in your signature may not contain NSFW images/text nor exceed a file size of 2.5 megabytes.
• Advertising MM Services: You may not advertise MM services anywhere except the User Services and MiddleMan Application forums.
• Referrals: Posting referral links anywhere other than in your signature or user title. This includes referral links for sites, surveys, other games, Share-cash, etc.
• Grave Digging: If a thread hasn't had a post in several weeks or months, do not post in it (except in the spam forum and some other forums/threads).
• Requiring Vouches: You may not promise/require a vouch in the market. Vouches are given when the user you're dealing with feels you deserve a vouch, and no one is obligated to vouch under any circumstances.
• Exploiting Site Glitches: Blank posting and other things that exploit glitches in XenForo/Sythe.org/the User Center are not allowed and punishment will be handled on a case by case basis. Use of unicode to blank post in the Spam Forum is the only exemption to this rule.
• Porn/Gore: Posting pictures, videos, links to websites related to porn/extreme gore, etc, will lead to an infraction. The staff will decide what constitutes porn or gore. It is not for you to decide. Repeat offenses may result in additional punishment. Steer clear of posting anything which could be interpreted as this.
  
• Ignoring Staff Decisions: Ignoring staff orders, recreating locked or deleted threads or posts, evading censors, etc, will normally result in an infraction although any punishment is permitted on a case by case basis.
• Posting links to "Screamer/Shock" Sites: Misleading links that lead to "screamer" or "shock" type sites are prohibited and will result in an infraction. Repeat offenses may result in additional punishment.
• PIN Sales: Sale of membership PINs is strictly prohibited. Any discussion of this will be infracted. If it continues, you will be banned for 1 month.
• Unban Services: Selling an unbanning service for any game is not allowed.
• Advertising: Posting or private messaging links to other sites is allowed if there is a legitimate purpose in doing so that benefits Sythe users. This includes solicitation via PMs in attempt to bring/advertise your services to unwilling members. This includes solicitation via PMs in attempt to bring/advertise your services to members. Users are not allowed to mass PM users in an attempt to gain attention or customers to your market threads. Market threads may only link to websites if business is conducted on Sythe and alternative methods of contact (Skype, AIM, etc) are given. Accounts specifically created for advertising will be banned. To purchase advertising space email [email protected]
  Edit 12/15/17: This rule is intended for legitimate customer complaints. We have seen a lot of pettiness from competing businesses reporting eachother solely to punish their competition and it is not a good use of staff time handling these reports. If you run a business on sythe, you may not report your competition for violating this rule.
• False or Misleading Advertising: Your sales/purchase threads must be accurate and updated promptly to reflect your actual prices/offers. If you advertise an offer significantly different to your actual prices then this is false advertising. For a more complete explanation of this rule and its punishments, please click here: A stricter enforcement of the False Advertising rule
• Copyright Infringement: Posting direct links to files that infringe other's copyright is against the rules. However indirect links are not covered by this rule.
• Multiple offences permit up to a month ban.

Users will be banned for 1 week for the following:

• Defacing User Photographs: Defacing someone else's picture (drawing on it, Photoshopping etc.) without that user's full consent will receive a 1 week ban.
• "Trade With Caution" Rank Evasion: If your account has been given the "Trade With Caution" rank (a TWC) and you use another account to evade the rank, all accounts used in the evasion will receive a 1-week ban as well as a TWC. Subsequent offences will result in a permanent ban on all accounts.
• Attempting to trade with a DNT* rank (first offence).
• Attempting to bribe staff through job offers or otherwise (first offence).

Users will be banned for 2 weeks for the following:

• Self/Fake Vouching: If you fake vouches, steal vouches or in any way attempt to pass off illegitimate vouches as legitimate you will be banned for 2 weeks and be given a TWC. A second offence will result in a permanent ban.
• Offsite vouches are not honored or allowed on Sythe.
• Interacting on Two or More Accounts/Sharing Accounts: You are strongly advised not to create more than one account at Sythe.org. If you do, ensure that the accounts do not interact with each other. Using a secondary account that is used SOLELY to bump threads while complying with the 8 hour bump rule (see above) is allowed. Sharing accounts is not allowed, however a valid legal entity (i.e. company) may have its own Sythe account, distinct from its members/shareholders, provided it complies with the other rules.

Users will be banned for 1 month for the following:

• Plagiarism: Plagiarism (including the ripping of GFX and RS/User Education Guides) results in a 1 month ban.
• Disclosure of Others' Personal Information: Posting information such as private emails/MSNs, private Skype accounts, Facebook accounts, addresses, phone numbers, private photos, etc. of someone other than yourself without explicit consent of that person will result in up to a 1 month ban regardless of whether or not the information is publicly available. If a picture was posted by its owner on Discord or Sythe, this rule doesn't apply.
• Attempting to trade with a DNT* rank (second offence).
• Attempting to bribe staff through job offers or otherwise (second offence).
• Tweeting, emailing, and/or contacting Jagex to leak another member's RuneScape Name(s) - User will be given a Trade with Caution as well.

Users will be banned for 3 months for the following:

• Tweeting, emailing, and/or contacting Jagex to leak another member's RuneScape Name(s) - User will be given a Trade with Caution as well. (Second Offense)

Users will be banned for 6 months for the following:

• Disclosure of Personal Information of a Staff Member or Acquaintance of a Staff Member: This includes, but is not limited to, full names, private emails, Skype/Facebook, addresses, phone numbers, private photos, etc.
  • There will be a 6 month Spam Forum ban on top of this.
  • A second offence from the same user will result in a permanent ban.
  • This rule does not apply to information/photos that the staff have posted publicly on Sythe about themselves (or reposting of the same provided the original thread still exists).
  • For the sake of clarity, an acquaintance of a staff member is a family member or close friend who is only associated with Sythe through a staff member, if at all.

Users will be banned permanently for the following:

• Scamming: Or any suspicious behavior similar to scamming (attempting to scam), this includes RuneScape name Sniping. This also includes:
  • Using Sythe as a means to lure other Sythe members will result in a permanent ban. However, luring done without the use of Sythe is fine.
  • Impersonating other members, and any other similar behavior.
  • Impersonating ranks through the use of your signature.
• Malicious Off-site Activities: If you are found to have committed offences elsewhere (as in, on other sites) which would constitute a ban here on Sythe had they been committed here, we may use these offences as an indicator of your character and choose to ban you from Sythe. Offences committed prior to your Sythe membership may also be considered depending on the nature of the offence.
• Posting Infected Files/Malware: Keyloggers, viruses, trojans, etc...
• Returning After a Ban/Ban Evading: If one of your accounts has been banned for whatever reason and you return under another account, that account will also be banned. Frequent ban evasion will result in an IP ban.
  • Evading a temporary ban will result in both accounts being banned for the length of your current ban plus an additional week
• Selling your Sythe account: Self explanatory.
• "Blackhat"/Malicious Activities: Using software tools for deceptive, malicious, or harmful intent directly or indirectly affecting Sythe users. Punishment for these offences will be dealt with on case-by-case basis, but will most likely result in a permanent ban.
• NB: 'Counter-scamming' (attempting to recover your property from a scammer) is not against the rules, but attempting to scam someone who previously scammed you is. There is a big difference between the two. You should be aware that if you attempt to recover your property from a scammer, that scammer may attempt to report you on Sythe. If you have insufficient evidence to back your claims that you were indeed recovering your stolen property the staff may be forced to ban you.

Additional Notes/Clauses:

• If an account is owned by a joint enterprise or company then all owners/directors/members of the company/enterprise must either have never owned a Sythe account, or have a Sythe account in good standing.
• If you have a banned account you are not to use another account on Sythe, and if you do the other account may be banned even if you do not own it.
• If there is a banned account on your IP address, other accounts attached to the IP will also be banned. Moreover, if there is any interaction between accounts attached to the same IP address, all accounts will be banned.
  
• If your Sythe account (or any other account like Powerbot, RuneScape etc) is hacked, and the hacker scams with that account, your Sythe account will be banned. You must reimburse all scammed members before the staff will consider unbanning you.
  • If your Skype account is hacked and used to scam, you will be held responsible if any of the criteria from this thread are met
• Name changes are now available. It is a donor perk which can be found here - Name Changes
  
• Businesses/Partnerships: Anyone running a business or partnered service implicitly agrees to share responsibility for the actions of their co-owners, as well as any workers they employ WHILE THE WORKER IS ON SHIFT AND ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE BUSINESS. Thus, if a partner or worker scams, all owners of the business will be banned until the debt is repaid. Workers, however, are not liable for anyone's actions but their own (although it is up to the staff to determine who falls into that category).
  
• Posting on behalf of banned users is strictly prohibited unless the post pertains to a pardon, report, dispute, or other serious events which they may have information for. Doing so will result in an infraction.
  
• Anyone found cheating in/manipulating competitions or other such events will be punished:
  • 1st Offense - One month competition ban
  • 2nd Offense - Two month competition ban
  • 3rd Offense - Perm Ban from competitions
  All of these will include an automatic disqualification from the competition and the user will be given the "BANNED FROM COMPETITIONS" user title
• All game account sales and services (including skilling/questing services) must include prominent and well displayed information on whether or not botting was/is used in the account/service. Further, all account sales must define an explicit refund and returns policy that the seller must ensure the buyer has read, understands and has agreed to (in writing) before the sale goes ahead. Failure to comply with this rule may result in disputes being awarded automatically to buyers.
• Anti-scamming without a staff members approval will be punished:

All rules in order to be enforced must first be interpreted by the staff. Where the application of a rule to the facts of a case is not obvious the staff will make a best effort, by drawing from the common law, to apply the rule in question. In rare cases where there is no fitting rule a new rule may be established by precedent. If you feel a rule has been applied incorrectly you may request an appeal in the dispute forum, however upper staff do not have to accept your appeal. In particular if you have previously had an appeal fail staff reserve the right to dismiss your appeal summarily.
* Understanding the DNT (Do Not Trade) rank


Last Updated: June 5, 2018

 

It might be better to split the rules into two. The first part will simply detail what isn't allowed on Sythe (and should be no more than 1 line), and a guideline penalty. The second part should elaborate on what isn't allowed in the first part (eg define what spamming means, and give examples).

That way, you get the benefit of a more cleaner and succinct exposition of the rules (first part), yet still provide detail and guidance that is defined elsewhere (second part). I also agree with Sellerman that a lot of the rules pertaining to the market should be rolled back, and if something bad happens due to the absence of a particular rule, it can just be reintroduced.

I don't see a problem with what you are suggesting, but I don't believe that the rules need to be split. As of right now people are just blatantly breaking the rules, and mods simply aren't punishing for it. I briefly talked to @Champ about rules needing to be stricter, and he agreed. We just need people to cut the crap when it comes to blatant rule breaking, and the mods need to enforce the rules, even if it seems like an offence that should lead to a warning.

 

[Fight Caver]

Just remove the in depth description of all the offences, and broaden the meaning of the rules
E.g.

• Excessive Bumping:
  
• Bogus Posting or Bumping:

These can both just be "bump abuse"

• Giving away accounts:
• Scamming:
• Trying to Sell Something that is Free:

These can all just be "scamming"

This suggestion is partially inspired by real laws, whereby they are deliberately vague so people cant as easily find loopholes.

 

@Champ Please can you provide some examples of what genuine negative feedback examples could be where it says that you are allowed to give genuine negative feedback as long as you do not accuse people of scamming.

 

@Champ Please can you provide some examples of what genuine negative feedback examples could be where it says that you are allowed to give genuine negative feedback as long as you do not accuse people of scamming.

As shown in that report you never actually traded rael, meaning that you can not leave feedback for the user. What you said could have been valid if you had actually traded him, but you didn't meaning that it was marked as harassment.

 

As shown in that report you never actually traded rael, meaning that you can not leave feedback for the user. What you said could have been valid if you had actually traded him, but you didn't meaning that it was marked as harassment.

There have been examples in the past where you are able to give users negative feedback for attempting to trade with them, so in which case does this rule apply?

 

There have been examples in the past where you are able to give users negative feedback for attempting to trade with them, so in which case does this rule apply?

If someone is actually stingy about trading you, regardless they don't have to use a MM and don't have to go first, everyone has the right to refuse to trade, for the lying about vouches I would assume you could possibly report him for false advertisement if his thread says 1k and only has 550, it is a matter of him not actually doing anything outside of what sythe allows besides the vouch count. Also for the examples, go to the RAS archives and look at anything in regards to bad pms, you can usually find things in there.

 

If someone is actually stingy about trading you, regardless they don't have to use a MM and don't have to go first, everyone has the right to refuse to trade, for the lying about vouches I would assume you could possibly report him for false advertisement if his thread says 1k and only has 550, it is a matter of him not actually doing anything outside of what sythe allows besides the vouch count. Also for the examples, go to the RAS archives and look at anything in regards to bad pms, you can usually find things in there.

You did not answer my question.

Additionally here are some posts I linked - some examples of posts that are apparently considered allowed:

Sventp Elkoy shop [Selling elkoy cash] Always stock! Ideal/PayPal/Skrill

Selling Elkoy Gold!!!!!

Eastwood’s OGs

 

You did not answer my question.

Additionally here are some posts I linked - some examples of posts that are apparently considered allowed:

Sventp Elkoy shop [Selling elkoy cash] Always stock! Ideal/PayPal/Skrill

Selling Elkoy Gold!!!!!

Eastwood’s OGs

You should know I can't view any of them Mr Seraphic.

 

You should know I can't view any of them Mr Seraphic.

You can view them, you just cannot view them logged in.

 

[Champ]

Bump.