God does not exist.

[lalmvpkobe]

So are you saying we shouldn't enjoy our one and only life, because we have nothing afterwards?
What is the point of that, the only thing we will ever do, ever is live, and you say we should not do that because after a point we will not be able to?

Im not talking for myself as it is obvious i beleive in eternal life and christianity.

I am trying to figure out your motives for life in your mind where their is a world without a God.

I say to you this Anything that can die will never truly live. living and dying can not coexist you fail to understand that you can never enjoy your life as it is one memory after the other and then nothingness (ini your ideology).

 

[Deacon Frost]

-who is it meaningful to(since we shall all die)? and show evidence that it is meaningful.

-this is a claim not evidence. also subjective (you may only think you are not hurting them)

just because something exists doesnt mean it is evidence for your claim. as a matter of fact show me evidence of their existance.

proof/evidence is allways subjective.

Lrn2quote please, it's difficult separating your post.

It is meaningful to me. It is meaningful to my mother, as she has told me, it is meaningful to my family as they have all told me. Thus, it is even moreso meaningful.

And maybe I'll impact someone's life, or do something great, so the future of the world looks brighter! Maybe I'll get to experience that, maybe I won't.

No, they've told me they enjoy my existence, and the fact that I care for them.

Do you know what a neurotransmitter is? Serotonin? Dopamine? Any of this ringing a bell? Are you attempting to take on the 'what is real' standpoint? You do realize that standpoint contradicts your own beliefs, correct?

And no, proof/evidence is not always subjective to an individual. The scientific method prevents that. It may be subjective to a race, but that's common.

I say to you this Anything that can die will never truly live. living and dying can not coexist you fail to understand that you can never enjoy your life as it is one memory after the other and then nothingness (ini your ideology).

La vie boheme.

You don't understand our 'ideology' so don't attempt to evaluate it.

Yes, we know that one day we will die. The end of living is ALWAYS death. Anything that is alive will one day die. That is an absolute.

So, you have no value in your life? You don't enjoy your life? Shows how good of a human being you are.

 

[sup3r n00b]

No need for name calling.



3 year old? How so?



Most atheists are fearless, actually. And, we're not the most stuck up people in the world? That would be the theists . The people who'll kill others for not believing the same as them.

Ya know, Crusades, Salem Witch Trials, 9/11, now 'project iraqi freedom', it's all because others believe differently. We're just trying to keep you guys from killing everyone =/.

No name calling....? Haha, Deacon you are too funny.
And nahh the funny thing is, what has a Christian done to you that makes you so hateful?
NOTHING.
So apparently it's not that bad buddy.
Well, as bad as you make it sound.
It's also funny how you include events such as the crusades....which was in
1095AD-1272AD
MAN, THAT MUST BE HURTING YOU SOOO BAD, SEEING AS HOW WE ARE ABOUT TO BE IN THE YEAR 2010.
Just saying, theres many pshycopathic athiests murderers.
You act like Christians are holding a gun to your head and telling you to believe.
It's pretty annoying.

 

[dam prayer noobs]

To be fair it's been undergoing revision for the last 20 years. Everytime a new contradiction springs up they nail a new premise to the front of it. There have been no tests in any valid sense of the word of the big bang theory.

And the theory of general relativity remains unproven as well. I would call it a completely lousy theory except that it does explain some phenomena with some accuracy.

Ok, theories change once we acquire more information. Would you rather the theorists cling to the old information and reject anything new instead?

This is a fallacy.

1. Objects moving away from the observer appear have lower frequency light than they otherwise would.
2. The stars have lower frequency light than the sun.
3. Therefore the stars must be moving away from the observer.

You've not proved the light from the stars is undergoing doppler-shift. This is a classic case of a formal fallacy called: affirming the consequent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

So no, it does not 'scientifically prove' stars are moving away from us, and even if it did, it still doesn't follow that there was a big bang. In fact the more reasonable explanation would be a natural oscillation, just like just about every other observable phenomena in existence.

Ok you're right. I agree there isn't enough evidence to prove the big bang. I can't just sit there and be content with my limited understanding of the universe, so theory that makes most sense to me right now is the big bang theory.

For the last time. I don't need a better theory in order to establish the invalidity of an existing one. My holding any theory does not have any influence on the validity of your claim.

It's not invalid just because it doesn't have enough evidence to satisfy you. It's not like I'm going around trying to convert people. I was an atheist for a while but then I just began thinking and reading books, and I came to the conclusion that there's no way all of this is random and that it's for nothing. I then formulated my own theory of why there is life and why we work everyday.

You can either sit there your whole life thinking you have things all figured out or that you will never have things figured out, or you can actually try to figure things out, because damn what will you lose by trying?

 

[lalmvpkobe]

This is totally bizzare. Have you that little self respect you need others to assign your life value for you? Your life has exactly the value you assign it. Your *values* are your personal subjective valuations of all the things in the world, from your perspective. If you claim your life has no value, then the only reason that could be is because you've neglected to assign any value to it!

Show/state evidence of value of life after you have died?

Most atheists are fearless, actually. And, we're not the most stuck up people in the world? That would be the theists . The people who'll kill others for not believing the same as them.

Ya know, Crusades, Salem Witch Trials, 9/11, now 'project iraqi freedom', it's all because others believe differently. We're just trying to keep you guys from killing everyone =/.

No where is the choices of any of these people recommended or condoned by the bible please post evidence for your claims.

 

[Deacon Frost]

No name calling....? Haha, Deacon you are too funny.
And nahh the funny thing is, what has a Christian done to you that makes you so hateful?
NOTHING.

You don't know my life, and you have no clue what I've been through. Please don't make assertions in an argument in which you have no knowledge.

So apparently it's not that bad buddy.
Well, as bad as you make it sound.
It's also funny how you include events such as the crusades....which was in
1095AD-1272AD
MAN, THAT MUST BE HURTING YOU SOOO BAD, SEEING AS HOW WE ARE ABOUT TO BE IN THE YEAR 2010.

I also mentioned project iraqi freedom. Religious fanatics are still killing people, or are you so wrapped up in yourself that you fail to realize how many horrid atrocities are committed in the name of God?

Just saying, theres many pshycopathic athiests murderers.

Mhm, but we don't claim to be the hand of God. I'd punish those psychopathic murders whether they were atheists or not. I wouldn't give them a fucking medal, and thank them for serving their country and their God.

You act like Christians are holding a gun to your head and telling you to believe.
It's pretty annoying.

You do realize the world is controlled by the religious masses, correct? You do know that we're governed by your retarded moral and ethical laws without any logical reasoning behind them, correct?

Abortion? Paedophilia? Incest?

All of those are in strong lawful debate as religious folk wish to keep their control over the world, and not let it grow.

So, yes, metaphorically, they are holding a gun to our heads, and telling us what to believe.

Atheists are trying to stop that though, and we're getting pretty good at it .

Show/state evidence of value of life after you have died?

You're a retarded troll, why are you unbanned? Sythe has already explained this, and if you had read both of our posts, you could have added up the points.

Death is the end, the end of life. During life, you assign value to your life, and live your life by that value. Once you are dead, that value ceases to be, as does your life, being that you are dead and no longer alive.

Make sense? . One day you'll get it, I hope.

No where is the choices of any of these people recommended or condoned by the bible please post evidence for your claims.

I didn't even understand this sentence. Evidence of what claims? That all major wars have been started, and continued in the name of some fanatical religion?

 

[sup3r n00b]

You don't know my life, and you have no clue what I've been through. Please don't make assertions in an argument in which you have no knowledge.



I also mentioned project iraqi freedom. Religious fanatics are still killing people, or are you so wrapped up in yourself that you fail to realize how many horrid atrocities are committed in the name of God?



Mhm, but we don't claim to be the hand of God. I'd punish those psychopathic murders whether they were atheists or not. I wouldn't give them a fucking medal, and thank them for serving their country and their God.



You do realize the world is controlled by the religious masses, correct? You do know that we're governed by your retarded moral and ethical laws without any logical reasoning behind them, correct?

Abortion? Paedophilia? Incest?

All of those are in strong lawful debate as religious folk wish to keep their control over the world, and not let it grow.

So, yes, metaphorically, they are holding a gun to our heads, and telling us what to believe.

Atheists are trying to stop that though, and we're getting pretty good at it .

Getting good at it eh?

Christianity: 2.1 billion

Finally, youre kind of religion:
Scientology: 500 thousand

Sources: Major Religions of the World Ranked by Number of Adherents; Poligazette; the Daily Mail Online; the Telegraph Online.

 

[Deacon Frost]

Getting good at it eh?

Christianity: 2.1 billion

Finally, youre kind of religion:
Scientology: 500 thousand

Sources: Major Religions of the World Ranked by Number of Adherents; Poligazette; the Daily Mail Online; the Telegraph Online.

Scientology != Atheist. The only reason people put us on the same page is because we rely heavily on the SCIENTIFIC METHOD. That doesn't mean we worship everything science presents before us.

 

[Swan]

Take notice to the word THEORY (Ex Big Bang THEORY)in everything you seem to fall back upon?

Definition of "scientific theory":

An explanation of concept/idea that is supported by evidence and/or many experiments/trials and is widely accepted by the scientific community.

I'm sorry if you find empirical evidence and fact false. Perhaps you should relearn the definition of the word "theory"?

Some proof you have right there?
You can't prove it, and never will be able to.

Why should we? As a human, I'm happy living my life and not knowing. Keep in mind that you can't prove your God, you just believe because it's a comforting thought, like an imaginary friend to a bullied child.

How are we some type of lifeforms with traits such as for example EMOTION.
Science could never prove Love, sadness, ect.

Science already has an understanding of human emotion to an extent. While it mightn't be completely accurate (most things rarely are anyway) it is enough to show that emotions are neurobiological in nature.. Don't try and refute this by using your "theory" argument, and if in doubt, refer to the definition above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion#Neurobiological_theories

Second paragraph talks about love.

Why can't you be a little bit more rational and try to just give me the facts and not your dumb opinion on my beliefs.
K?

I had to laugh. Right back at you: Why can't you be a little bit more rational and try to just give us the facts and not your uneducated opinion. The burden of proof lies on he whom asserts a positive argument. If you say God exists, you need evidence to back that up.

Feel free to gang up on me. I find it quite hilarious.

Now you've convinced yourself that we're "ganging up" on you when we're only providing our own views in opposition to yours. Stop being irrational.

One athiest finds another. Sees a Christian. Oh, then the rest is inevitable.
You guys need to stop being little kids agreeing with each other and trying to be funny at the same time.

Being funny is socially acceptable. In any case, I always try my best to be rational when talking about religion regardless of circumstances.

 

[lalmvpkobe]

It is meaningful to me. It is meaningful to my mother, as she has told me, it is meaningful to my family as they have all told me. Thus, it is even moreso meaningful.

And maybe I'll impact someone's life, or do something great, so the future of the world looks brighter! Maybe I'll get to experience that, maybe I won't.

No, they've told me they enjoy my existence, and the fact that I care for them.

This isnt evidence. define meaningful. Now decide if what you are saying is meanigful after you have died. ovbiviously you will declare that it is so this time provide evidence.

will their life be impacted after their death. no.

will anything you do ever matter? no. as all will die including those whose future you care so much about.

You don't understand our 'ideology' so don't attempt to evaluate it.

Yes, we know that one day we will die. The end of living is ALWAYS death. Anything that is alive will one day die. That is an absolute.

So, you have no value in your life? You don't enjoy your life? Shows how good of a human being you are.

what am i missing in your 'ideology' you live you die you no longer exist.

i argue that their is no end to living.

obviously i am only refuting your claims i do value my life because i will never cease to exist.

No name calling....? Haha, Deacon you are too funny.
And nahh the funny thing is, what has a Christian done to you that makes you so hateful?
NOTHING.
So apparently it's not that bad buddy.
Well, as bad as you make it sound.
It's also funny how you include events such as the crusades....which was in
1095AD-1272AD
MAN, THAT MUST BE HURTING YOU SOOO BAD, SEEING AS HOW WE ARE ABOUT TO BE IN THE YEAR 2010.
Just saying, theres many pshycopathic athiests murderers.
You act like Christians are holding a gun to your head and telling you to believe.
It's pretty annoying.

just stop dude your getting tore apart and your arguments are entirely pathos.
realize that we can not argue Gods existiance as it is not rational and therefore it can not be reasoned. (remember these are intellectuals)
Our beleifs are logic and faith based and without them having faith their is no way to argue and convince them even if God was rational. and they were slapped in the face with proof.

 

[sup3r n00b]

Definition of "scientific theory":


I'm sorry if you find empirical evidence and fact false. Perhaps you should relearn the definition of the word "theory"?



Why should we? As a human, I'm happy living my life and not knowing. Keep in mind that you can't prove your God, you just believe because it's a comforting thought, like an imaginary friend to a bullied child.



Science already has an understanding of human emotion to an extent. While it mightn't be completely accurate (most things rarely are anyway) it is enough to show that emotions are neurobiological in nature.. Don't try and refute this by using your "theory" argument, and if in doubt, refer to the definition above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion#Neurobiological_theories

Second paragraph talks about love.



I had to laugh. Right back at you: Why can't you be a little bit more rational and try to just give us the facts and not your uneducated opinion. The burden of proof lies on he whom asserts a positive argument. If you say God exists, you need evidence to back that up.



Now you've convinced yourself that we're "ganging up" on you when we're only providing our own views in opposition to yours. Stop being irrational.



Being funny is socially acceptable. In any case, I always try my best to be rational when talking about religion regardless of circumstances.

Well i have classes tomorrow. I appreciate all of you that debated with a mature sense of dignity. I will be back on tomorrow to explain more about my beliefs.
Cheers,

-V
(Sorry i couldn't get to what i just quoted, will tomorrow)

 

[sup3r n00b]

Good night

 

[Deacon Frost]

This isnt evidence. define meaningful. Now decide if what you are saying is meanigful after you have died. ovbiviously you will declare that it is so this time provide evidence.

No one ever said there will be meaning for them after they died. No one would make that claim. There will be meaning for others after we have died, we know the world goes on, and if we affected someone before we died, then we know, before we die, that we did good.

will their life be impacted after their death. no.

will anything you do ever matter? no. as all will die including those whose future you care so much about.

Yes, in the grand scheme of things, everything dies. The universe will one day cease to be exactly as it is. However, that is centillions of years in the future. Why do you care that in the end it doesn't matter?

Look at animals, they value their life, but you don't see them kneeling to pray every day. It is merely humans who have been so brainwashed they can't accept their own death.

what am i missing in your 'ideology' you live you die you no longer exist.

i argue that their is no end to living.

obviously i am only refuting your claims i do value my life because i will never cease to exist.

You will cease to exist. The electrical impulses, the data, all of it, will decay. If it stops functioning, that is when you are dead. There is no spirit, there is no afterlife, there's just your simple body that will one day break down.

just stop dude your getting tore apart and your arguments are entirely pathos.
realize that we can not argue Gods existiance as it is not rational and therefore it can not be reasoned. (remeber these are intellectuals)
Our beleives are logic and faith based and without them having faith their is no way to argue and convincet them even if God was rational.

Take your own advice. Your beliefs are not logic based at all. They are fantastical and irrational based.

 

[Angelmax]

Im not talking for myself as it is obvious i beleive in eternal life and christianity.

I am trying to figure out your motives for life in your mind where their is a world without a God.

I say to you this Anything that can die will never truly live. living and dying can not coexist you fail to understand that you can never enjoy your life as it is one memory after the other and then nothingness (ini your ideology).

I'm an atheist because I don't believe in a god, not because I don't want to 'live after I die'.

My motivation for living my life is to enjoy it and to enrich the lives of others, not to waste it point scoring for an afterlife that has a near 0 probability of existing.

 

[Angelmax]

It's also funny how you include events such as the crusades....which was in
1095AD-1272AD
MAN, THAT MUST BE HURTING YOU SOOO BAD, SEEING AS HOW WE ARE ABOUT TO BE IN THE YEAR 2010.

You don't seem to have a problem living your life by 2000 year old rules.

Just saying, theres many pshycopathic athiests murderers.

Care to name any, and tell me that they did it because they were atheists?

 

[lalmvpkobe]

No one ever said there will be meaning for them after they died. No one would make that claim. There will be meaning for others after we have died, we know the world goes on, and if we affected someone before we died, then we know, before we die, that we did good.



Yes, in the grand scheme of things, everything dies. The universe will one day cease to be exactly as it is. However, that is centillions of years in the future. Why do you care that in the end it doesn't matter?

Look at animals, they value their life, but you don't see them kneeling to pray every day. It is merely humans who have been so brainwashed they can't accept their own death.




You will cease to exist. The electrical impulses, the data, all of it, will decay. If it stops functioning, that is when you are dead. There is no spirit, there is no afterlife, there's just your simple body that will one day break down.



Take your own advice. Your beliefs are not logic based at all. They are fantastical and irrational based.

I'm an atheist because I don't believe in a god, not because I don't want to 'live after I die'.

My motivation for living my life is to enjoy it and to enrich the lives of others, not to waste it point scoring for an afterlife that has a near 0 probability of existing.

tsk tsk this is simply a cycle of the same thing being related back and forth so i will be the mature one and say enough is enough your oppionions will not budge and neither will mine argument=FAIL.

 

[Angelmax]

tsk tsk this is simply a cycle of the same thing being related back and forth so i will be the mature one and say enough is enough your oppionions will not budge and neither will mine argument=FAIL.

Then why are you here?

 

Ok, theories change once we acquire more information. Would you rather the theorists cling to the old information and reject anything new instead?

They're not following the scientific method. There is nothing scientific about hypothesizing new entities, failing to test said hypotheses then introducing them as new premises to an existing theory and claiming the theory to be once again valid. This is a theological doctrine preservation methodology, it couldn't be further from scientific.

You think I'm joking?

Definitions of dark matter on the Web:

• (cosmology) a hypothetical form of matter that is believed to make up 90 percent of the universe; it is invisible (does not absorb or emit light ... wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Definitions of dark energy on the Web:

• In physical cosmology and astronomy, dark energy is a hypothetical form of energy that permeates all of space and tends to increase the rate of ...

Definitions of neutronium on the Web:

• The supposed material composed entirely of neutrons that composes a neutron star en.wiktionary.org/wiki/neutronium

Blackholes, neutron stars, space-time and just about every other damn entity in the theory is hypothetical too.

Ok you're right. I agree there isn't enough evidence to prove the big bang. I can't just sit there and be content with my limited understanding of the universe, so theory that makes most sense to me right now is the big bang theory.

The big bang theory is just terrible, unscientific theological garbage. If you want a model of the universe which can substantiate most of its claims (as far as I have seen) try the electric universe theory.

It's not invalid just because it doesn't have enough evidence to satisfy you. It's not like I'm going around trying to convert people. I was an atheist for a while but then I just began thinking and reading books, and I came to the conclusion that there's no way all of this is random and that it's for nothing. I then formulated my own theory of why there is life and why we work everyday.

The big bang theory is invalid by virtue of its internal contradictions, of which there are many; a few of which I've already outlined in this thread.

One thing to remember about reasoning is that a train of reason all goes in the same direction. If you can show the back of the train is going in the wrong direction, the front of the train sure as hell is too.

 

[lalmvpkobe]

Then why are you here?

Are you kidding me?
You are quite simple angel but nonetheless i will explain it to you. I was here to argue I have seen that argument has failed i was here because i was aruging. DO you underdstand?

 

Are you kidding me?
You are quite simple angel but nonetheless i will explain it to you. I was here to argue I have seen that argument has failed i was here because i was aruging. DO you underdstand?

Please try cut down the verbiage. Stick to the facts.