God does not exist.

[morttt]

Saying that 'he isn't limited by logic' is the same as admitting outright that he is an illogical being. And having already assumed that the universe is rational in order to begin rationally debating it in the first place, you are once more in contradiction with yourself.

God could create a rock so heavy he couldn't lift it and lift it at the same time. It's not illogical. You need more quantum.

 

God could create a rock so heavy he couldn't lift it and lift it at the same time. It's not illogical. You need more quantum.

Quantum physics in so far as it pretends things can violate the exclusivity of space, time and attributes, is illogical -- a fallacy in fact.

 

[Pkpkpk]

do you believe in love?

I have been reading through this thread and I must say, this one stands out to me

You cant hold love, you can not see love, you can not prove love. Is love real? I know this is a slight tangent but I think in the end it boils down to humans need something to believe it, real or not.

Opinion: Real in the case of god, no proof that I can show you on paper right here but he is.

 

Opinion: Real in the case of god, no proof that I can show you on paper right here but he is.

You believe in something that does not exist. You're insane.

 

[blindkilla]

That's misleading. The fact that he believes in something that doesn't exist doesn't necessarily make him deranged. Misinformed, maybe, but not insane.

I think insane was the wrong word. He is in fact, delusional.

 

That's misleading. The fact that he believes in something that doesn't exist doesn't necessarily make him deranged. Misinformed, maybe, but not insane.

I think insane was the wrong word. He is in fact, delusional.

Well, thats just semantics really. If you believe in something despite having been shown the belief is irrational, then I would call that insane. The Princeton definition is:

insanity - relatively permanent disorder of the mind
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

 

[The Riddler_]

Omnipotence isn't self-contradictory. The classic "Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it" is flawed, because it rests on the presumption that God is limited by Universal logic. An omnipotent entity wouldn't be limited by Universal logic, the laws of physics or the boundaries of reality; otherwise said entity wouldn't be omnipotent to begin with.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I drew this from that statement.

Either the rock, or god could not be existent. But I'm leaning more towards God if he is omnipotent. Even though Sythe has already said this, I still think that it is contradicting it's very existence if it does not agree with the universe's laws.

Well, thats just semantics really. If you believe in something despite having been shown the belief is irrational, then I would call that insane.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[lalmvpkobe]

Time to shut you guys up.
every theory about how matter came to be/the unvierse was made is illogical. (ive talked to several aitheist science teachers and intellecuals and researched) They make sense but if you look at all the theories you will see each one is flawed exactly at the beginning as their own logic and rationale have to not apply for their latter logic to be true.

HERE IS WHY I BELEIVE IN THE CHRISTIAN GOD.
beleiving in any religon and any god is illogical. As common sesnse will tell you only one religion can be the correct one (if any religion is true) after researching you will find the most logical and probable religion that can be true is the christian religion. All other religons admit to be created by a man as well as having no claims to the origins of humanity as well as them being very contradictory and illogical more so then christianity.

NOW FOR THE ARGUMENT

1 statement to make believers out of you intellectuals. Lets say whatever you beleive in is true and im wrong like you beleive in the big bang aitheist or w/e. That only means that life would be completely pointless. Because you beleive ur soul dies along with you its as if you never existed and their is not even a "you" which would make life pointless no matter what your argument is.

This seems logical to all of the intellecutals as their is no "proof" that says otherwise.

The argument i make for christinity is quite logical. I argue that if life is pointless then why not be a christian in the end by your logic even if your wrong and you wasted your entire life it wouldnt matter what so ever due to the fact that after you die you wont exist. So whatever you do in life means nothing if you logic says you wont exist.
MOSTLY EVERYONE IGNORES THIS ARGUMENT AND BULLSHITS A ANSWER BECAUSE THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND.
Think about the point of life and your decisions if you dont exist after death. Keep thinking about it.
Now on the chance that im right and everything in the bible is correct (see above paragraph to see why im avoiding all other religions) you my friends would be fucked as hell for eternity as described in the bible would be a inexplicible horror as its for eternity.

So based on all this why would you not belive?(EVEN IF ALL RELIGION IS BS AND YOU WASTED YOUR ENTIRE LIFE IT WILL NOT MATTER AS YOU WILL NOT EXIST THINK OR BREATHE)
IS YOUR PRIDE WORTH IT???(the answer is no because ur pride will die and cease to exist all with you if christianity is wrong).

Their is no way as of yet, nor will their ever be, a way to prove God does not exist simply because their is no way to apply our human knowledge and logics to the creator/God as they can simply be void think about it lol it makes sense as well as their are no facts against his existense (think about what a fact is before you argue) . (All atheists will jump at this statement and completely ignore the logic of previous arguments)

-gf atheists

ps In my mind the complexity of life all the way down to the makeup of a atom and simple biology should be enough to tell you that their is no way this all happened by chance and the laws of our universe came by chance. their is no fucking way anything a scietist can say to convince me. If you are an atheist i belive imo you are insane. (disregard this as the basis of your counter-argument)

AND ENOUGH OF YOUR FALLACY BS SINCE I BELIVE IN GOD YOUR BS HUMAN MADE FALLACYS DO NOT APPLY. FUCKING TIRED OF ATHESISTS IGNORING ARGUMENT AND SIMPLY LISTING FALACY'S AND MOVING ON.

 

[blindkilla]

Time to shut you guys up.
every theory about how matter came to be/the unvierse was made is illogical. (ive talked to several aitheist science teachers and intellecuals and researched) They make sense but if you look at all the theories you will see each one is flawed exactly at the beginning as their own logic and rationale have to not apply for their latter logic to be true.

It doesn't break any laws of logic, therefore the theories are not illogical.

HERE IS WHY I BELEIVE IN THE CHRISTIAN GOD.
beleiving in any religon and any god is illogical. As common sesnse will tell you only one religion can be the correct one (if any religion is true) after researching you will find the most logical and probable religion that can be true is the christian religion. All other religons admit to be created by a man as well as having no claims to the origins of humanity as well as them being very contradictory and illogical more so then christianity.

Honestly, I believe the most realistic view of god, is a deist's view.

1 statement to make believers out of you intellectuals. Lets say whatever you beleive in is true and im wrong like you beleive in the big bang aitheist or w/e. That only means that life would be completely pointless. Because you beleive ur soul dies along with you its as if you never existed and their is not even a "you" which would make life pointless no matter what your argument is.

Technically atheists don't believe they have a soul in a religious sense. Yes essentially life is pointless and it was very improbably. However, that doesn't mean atheists don't cherish life. Most people start to enjoy life more after they convert (is that the right word?) to atheism. They stop taking life for granted.

The argument i make for christinity is quite logical. I argue that if life is pointless then why not be a christian in the end by your logic even if your wrong and you wasted your entire life it wouldnt matter what so ever due to the fact that after you die you wont exist. So whatever you do in life means nothing if you logic says you wont exist.
MOSTLY EVERYONE IGNORES THIS ARGUMENT AND BULLSHITS A ANSWER BECAUSE THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND.
Think about the point of life and your decisions if you dont exist after death. Keep thinking about it.
Now on the chance that im right and everything in the bible is correct (see above paragraph to see why im avoiding all other religions) you my friends would be fucked as hell for eternity as described in the bible would be a inexplicible horror as its for eternity.

Pascal's wager.

So based on all this why would you not belive?(EVEN IF ALL RELIGION IS BS AND YOU WASTED YOUR ENTIRE LIFE IT WILL NOT MATTER AS YOU WILL NOT EXIST THINK OR BREATHE)
IS YOUR PRIDE WORTH IT???(the answer is no because ur pride will die and cease to exist all with you if christianity is wrong).

Pascal's wager.

Their is no way as of yet, nor will their ever be, a way to prove God does not exist simply because their is no way to apply our human knowledge and logics to the creator/God as they can simply be void think about it lol it makes sense as well as their are no facts against his existense (think about what a fact is before you argue) . (All atheists will jump at this statement and completely ignore the logic of previous arguments)

In time, there may very well be undeniable proof for the existence of god. Right now however, there is no proof what so ever for the existence of a god, but there is sufficient evidence that shows god as improbably, and unlikely to exist. The evidence for gods improbability out weights the evidence for it's existence.

ps In my mind the complexity of life all the way down to the makeup of a atom and simple biology should be enough to tell you that their is no way this all happened by chance and the laws of our universe came by chance. their is no fucking way anything a scietist can say to convince me. If you are an atheist i belive imo you are insane. (disregard this as the basis of your counter-argument)

Your ignorance isn't surprising to me, most theists are the same. Do you understand nuclear physics? Probably not, I guess there is a god.

 

Another fun one.

Time to shut you guys up.
every theory about how matter came to be/the unvierse was made is illogical. (ive talked to several aitheist science teachers and intellecuals and researched) They make sense but if you look at all the theories you will see each one is flawed exactly at the beginning as their own logic and rationale have to not apply for their latter logic to be true.

No relevance.

HERE IS WHY I BELEIVE IN THE CHRISTIAN GOD.
beleiving in any religon and any god is illogical. As common sesnse will tell you only one religion can be the correct one (if any religion is true) after researching you will find the most logical and probable religion that can be true is the christian religion. All other religons admit to be created by a man as well as having no claims to the origins of humanity as well as them being very contradictory and illogical more so then christianity.

Fallacy: Argumentum ad Temperantiam.

NOW FOR THE ARGUMENT

1 statement to make believers out of you intellectuals. Lets say whatever you beleive in is true and im wrong like you beleive in the big bang aitheist or w/e. That only means that life would be completely pointless. Because you beleive ur soul dies along with you its as if you never existed and their is not even a "you" which would make life pointless no matter what your argument is.

2x Fallacy: straw-man fallacy and a form of argument from apocalypse.

Further, these opinions do not constitute evidence supporting the existence of 'god'.

This seems logical to all of the intellecutals as their is no "proof" that says otherwise.

Fallacy: Appeal to ignorance / demand for negative proof (the most common fallacy on this forum.)

The argument i make for christinity is quite logical. I argue that if life is pointless then why not be a christian in the end by your logic even if your wrong and you wasted your entire life it wouldnt matter what so ever due to the fact that after you die you wont exist. So whatever you do in life means nothing if you logic says you wont exist.
MOSTLY EVERYONE IGNORES THIS ARGUMENT AND BULLSHITS A ANSWER BECAUSE THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND.
Think about the point of life and your decisions if you dont exist after death. Keep thinking about it.
Now on the chance that im right and everything in the bible is correct (see above paragraph to see why im avoiding all other religions) you my friends would be fucked as hell for eternity as described in the bible would be a inexplicible horror as its for eternity.

...

No bearing on whether or not god exists, once more. This is just an appeal to fear. The agnostic's fallacy.

An actual rationalist argument (as opposed to the straw-man you presented):
1. (All) value is subjective. (We can debate the merits of this later, but the case has been made strongly before.)
2. Value is a human concept. All value is assigned by human beings.
3. All the value in the world, from your perspective is yours alone to assign. Your life has precisely the value you assign to it. Your goals, the people you meet, the items you buy, the job you work, these things have only the value you assign to them and nothing more or less.

If you think your life has no meaning without a non-existent entity then you have assigned your life no value.

 

[Denode]

Burden of proof lies in the affirmative (something DOES exist, said event DOES happen, etc). End of discussion.

Why? You can not prove a negative, unless it's negativity is necessary and self-evident (I.E. a square circle can not exist by our current definitions, but it's non-existence is self-evident and does not require evidence).

Before you go saying "Well then you can not prove God doesn't exist, because you can not prove a negative," I'm not attempting such a feat. I never said God doesn't exist, and anyone who says that is in idiot. I will just say the probability that your deity exists is extremely low, and I therefore find it pointless to invest any emotions/time/effort/money into such endeavours.

Time to shut you guys up.
every theory about how matter came to be/the unvierse was made is illogical. (ive talked to several aitheist science teachers and intellecuals and researched) They make sense but if you look at all the theories you will see each one is flawed exactly at the beginning as their own logic and rationale have to not apply for their latter logic to be true.

You obviously have not looked at each one. Please provide proof of this, as I have not seen every theory to contradict itself as you so confidently suppose.

HERE IS WHY I BELEIVE IN THE CHRISTIAN GOD.
beleiving in any religon and any god is illogical. As common sesnse will tell you only one religion can be the correct one (if any religion is true) after researching you will find the most logical and probable religion that can be true is the christian religion. All other religons admit to be created by a man as well as having no claims to the origins of humanity as well as them being very contradictory and illogical more so then christianity.

You do realise the current bible is the compilation of thousands of revisions BY MEN, right? "More so then christianity." I find it funny that you're admitting Christianity's contradictory nature, and yet still proceeding.

NOW FOR THE ARGUMENT

1 statement to make believers out of you intellectuals. Lets say whatever you beleive in is true and im wrong like you beleive in the big bang aitheist or w/e. That only means that life would be completely pointless. Because you beleive ur soul dies along with you its as if you never existed and their is not even a "you" which would make life pointless no matter what your argument is.

This seems logical to all of the intellecutals as their is no "proof" that says otherwise.

The argument i make for christinity is quite logical. I argue that if life is pointless then why not be a christian in the end by your logic even if your wrong and you wasted your entire life it wouldnt matter what so ever due to the fact that after you die you wont exist. So whatever you do in life means nothing if you logic says you wont exist.
MOSTLY EVERYONE IGNORES THIS ARGUMENT AND BULLSHITS A ANSWER BECAUSE THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND.
Think about the point of life and your decisions if you dont exist after death. Keep thinking about it.
Now on the chance that im right and everything in the bible is correct (see above paragraph to see why im avoiding all other religions) you my friends would be fucked as hell for eternity as described in the bible would be a inexplicible horror as its for eternity.

So based on all this why would you not belive?(EVEN IF ALL RELIGION IS BS AND YOU WASTED YOUR ENTIRE LIFE IT WILL NOT MATTER AS YOU WILL NOT EXIST THINK OR BREATHE)
IS YOUR PRIDE WORTH IT???(the answer is no because ur pride will die and cease to exist all with you if christianity is wrong).

Pascal's wager - Believe just incase there is a God, so you don't risk going to hell.

1. You do realise Zeus may be real, and you'll be visiting the depths of Hades shortly? You're not accepting Greek mythology for aforementioned reasons, so why should I accept Christian mythology?

2. Even if I did decide to accept this argument, I would not be able to completely convince myself of Gods existence, and the omniscience of your deity would detect such doubts and render all my efforts pointless, as in the end I still did not completely believe. Unless of course I can fool God.

Their is no way as of yet, nor will their ever be, a way to prove God does not exist simply because their is no way to apply our human knowledge and logics to the creator/God as they can simply be void think about it lol it makes sense as well as their are no facts against his existense (think about what a fact is before you argue) . (All atheists will jump at this statement and completely ignore the logic of previous arguments)

-gf atheists

There is also no evidence to prove God exists. None of what you stated above would pass as logical proof.

ps In my mind the complexity of life all the way down to the makeup of a atom and simple biology should be enough to tell you that their is no way this all happened by chance and the laws of our universe came by chance. their is no fucking way anything a scietist can say to convince me. If you are an atheist i belive imo you are insane. (disregard this as the basis of your counter-argument)

If you are a christian i belive imo you are insane.

GF - I win.

As to the teleological argument:

1. Yes. Ok. You got me. You're right. There is a god. Odin DOES exist. I'm sorry, I can't believe I could not see the light of Valhalla all along! Please stop using that argument, because it doesn't prove christianity, the best it can ever hope to do is prove the existence of ANY deity, and even in that it fails miserably.

2. You seem to assume that the ONLY possibility is that God created everything. You seem to forget that there is still the possibility that God DIDN'T create it, and you are certainly not educated enough to deem it "fucking retarded."

I BELIVE IN GOD YOUR BS HUMAN MADE FALLACYS DO NOT APPLY

Can you defy and manipulate the laws of physics? No? Then do not claim immunity to fallacies.



Judging by your demeanor, I can guess you probably don't even have a high-school education yet, or at least don't deserve it if you have one. You claim numerous philosophical/metaphysical "proofs" to be logical "proofs," which is extremely idiotic. They aren't even solid proof to begin with. Please just get out of here and stop wasting your time and our time.

 

I never said God doesn't exist, and anyone who says that is in idiot.

No, because their own definition of 'god' is a contradiction. Definitively we can say a contradiction cannot exist in reality, therefore god does not exist.

 

[Denode]

No, because their own definition of 'god' is a contradiction. Definitively we can say a contradiction cannot exist in reality, therefore god does not exist.

Let me rephrase myself. God is not, collectively, disprovable. Unless you're saying that any god is a contradiction, and I'd love to see your reasoning for that. You'd be the first person to succesfully disprove deities.

 

[Deacon Frost]

1 statement to make believers out of you intellectuals. Lets say whatever you beleive in is true and im wrong like you beleive in the big bang aitheist or w/e. That only means that life would be completely pointless. Because you beleive ur soul dies along with you its as if you never existed and their is not even a "you" which would make life pointless no matter what your argument is.

The belief that atheists are nihilistic is very wrong. While most of them are, a vast majority of atheists have families, believe in helping future generations even though they won't be alive, and give their life meaning without the help of some human-made belief system.

I, personally, am nihilistic because I understand and accept that in 1 billion years, nothing of me will remain. History tells us this, and I am fine with it. In fact, I enjoy my life even moreso knowing that it is pointless, and everything around me is false. If I had to sit in church every Sunday, and desire eternal life inside of Heaven, and fear hell... I think I'd go fucking insane.

I appreciate your point of view, but you really have no idea what you're talking about. The argument you presented has been answered, directly, countless times. It's not us who misunderstand the argument, it's the religious folk who refuse to accept our answer, and reason.

You think that without eternal life, it is pointless. I think that with eternal life, it is pointless.

 

[Denode]

You think that without eternal life, it is pointless. I think that with eternal life, it is pointless.

I'd like to emphasize this last sentence. Both the question and the answer will always be entirely subjective, so there is really no point in asking it as it demands and produces no objective evidence. It will not, as you claim, "make believers out of us."

 

Let me rephrase myself. God is not, collectively, disprovable. Unless you're saying that any god is a contradiction, and I'd love to see your reasoning for that. You'd be the first person to succesfully disprove deities.

If all theists agreed that all their 'gods' are supernatural beings, then by definition no deity can exist. 'Supernatural' being defined as anything along the lines of "not existing in nature or subject to explanation according to natural laws; not physical or material; "

So I would argue these fictional entities are a contradiction by definition. No further evidence required.

 

[Schnell]

HERE IS WHY I BELEIVE IN THE CHRISTIAN GOD.
beleiving in any religon and any god is illogical. As common sesnse will tell you only one religion can be the correct one (if any religion is true) after researching you will find the most logical and probable religion that can be true is the christian religion. All other religons admit to be created by a man as well as having no claims to the origins of humanity as well as them being very contradictory and illogical more so then christianity.

HERE IS WHY I DON'T BELEIVE IN THE CHRISTIAN GOD.
beleiving in any religon and any god is illogical.

^^Right there, I didn't even need to fix your typos, it still makes perfect sense.

I think it's amazing how you can write off every other religion on the same grounds as I do yours, while still holding on to your own.

1 statement to make believers out of you intellectuals. Lets say whatever you beleive in is true and im wrong like you beleive in the big bang aitheist or w/e. That only means that life would be completely pointless. Because you beleive ur soul dies along with you its as if you never existed and their is not even a "you" which would make life pointless no matter what your argument is.

This is probably the worst argument believers present, even though it's very common. You assert that this life is only meaningful if there is an eternal afterlife which is indefinitely better. And you see no problem with that.

In my opinion, an eternal, awesome afterlife would render this life meaningless, as no matter how good your life is it will not matter because the afterlife is so much better.

Just to clarify: No, I don't think my soul dies with me, because I don't have a soul to begin with. Soul is a metaphysical concept made up by men. There is a "me", but instead of your metaphysical dualistic view, I see myself as my physical body.

 

[lalmvpkobe]

Fuck all the athiests i need to learn how to keep my words short and sweet like always u fuckers quote text and respond with a said fallacy. I DONT GIVE A FUCK if its a fallacy answer my questions regardless.

And as always no one actually reads what I said. So ill make it short and simple.

I want a response to pascal's wager because honestly just saying his name isnt a counter argument -.- and if you insist it is pleasure me with a personal response.

Look at your theories of the universe creation intellecutuals. YOu will notice that for the entire theory to be plausable the rules you insist the universe holds true would have to not apply at the exact time of the creation.

nothing in science is a fact. yes i said it fuckers their all theories and this is basic knowledge as science is always changing as new things are discovered.

I am not trying to prove God's existense as it is something that can not be provem or disproven.

I dont beleive in zeus buddha or all that bullshit becuase the religions were devised by humans and didnt exist in the first years of humanity so logic will tell you that it is not possible for them to be true.

CHERISHING LIFE LAUGHING MY MOTHER FUCKING ASS OFF Do you retards seriously not understand that not existing means life is pointless? why the fuck would you cherish a life that means nothing. What im saying right now is inexplainiable by me but obvioulsly your beliefs would me their is no point in life. sooooo
1.cherishing life would be a waste
2. helping the future would be a waste as their life is just as pointless as yours
3.if you dont exist after death at all then nothing matters past future present would be invalid
4. the definition of life itself would be invalid as non existence completley voids all aspects of life

State my research lol Their is no way to state my entire logic and thoughts about all other religions but i can show you my process.

1. See when religion was "created" (anything that has no ties to humanitys origins i see as invlid)
2. see who created the religion(any religion made and created by a man is automatically invalid for obvious reasons especially ones created by man with no ties to human orgins)
3. Look to see where the religion came from
4. Look to see their logic behind the religon
5. Look to see how accurate historically they are
6. Look to see how it was influenced(any influences obviously means the religion is invalid)
7. Look to see the contradictions in theair biblicial philoshophy or txt.
8. Examine who wrote the biblicial philoshophy or txt to see if it is possible to be from God.
When you have done all these things christianity will be at the top of the list for a valid religion.

if you want throw out a specific religion other the christianity i will disprove it.



YOUR NOT DONE RE-READ WHAT I SAID AS I KNOW YOU DIDNT READ IT THE FIRST TIME -.-

 

[lalmvpkobe]

That's my reasoning about the 'origins of the universe' or 'why stuff exists'. Short answer: because it does.

Lol and christians are "insane" this is the best quote ever that delayers intelectualls complex ideology sythe is a true intecllectual because he does not beleive in birth of a universe or that big bang shit as their is no proof and people who beleive in it are actually not intellectuals but fools. I see sythe's logic quite clearly as he is sticking purely to "evidence". summed up in one brief statement

That's my reasoning about the 'origins of the universe' or 'why stuff exists'. Short answer: because it does.

 

[FreedomFight]

Never thought we'd be on the same team

Ha. Only because it is the debate forum. Where would would we be if everyone agreed? Anyways, when there's no dispute, I feel your posts are sufficiently thorough so I usually don't contribute much to them.

I DONT GIVE A FUCK if its a fallacy answer my questions regardless.

Quote of the day. Scamming runescape guides into yelling mindlessly into...

And as always no one actually reads what I said. So ill make it short and simple.

I can't say I blame them.

I want a response to pascal's wager because honestly just saying his name isnt a counter argument -.- and if you insist it is pleasure me with a personal response.

Well, looks like it's been done already http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager#Criticisms.
Pascal's Wager is an outdated philosophy.

I am not trying to prove God's existense as it is something that can not be provem or disproven.

The only thing I can half-agree with. Good for you I suppose.

I dont beleive in zeus buddha or all that bullshit becuase the religions were devised by humans and didnt exist in the first years of humanity so logic will tell you that it is not possible for them to be true.

I thought you didn't believe in logic or facts. Then again, since you are indeed a supporter of self-contradiction and paradoxes, I could be wrong.

1. See when religion was "created" (anything that has no ties to humanitys origins i see as invlid)
2. see who created the religion(any religion made and created by a man is automatically invalid for obvious reasons especially ones created by man with no ties to human orgins)
3. Look to see where the religion came from
4. Look to see their logic behind the religon
5. Look to see how accurate historically they are
6. Look to see how it was influenced(any influences obviously means the religion is invalid)
7. Look to see the contradictions in theair biblicial philoshophy or txt.
8. Examine who wrote the biblicial philoshophy or txt to see if it is possible to be from God.
When you have done all these things christianity will be at the top of the list for a valid religion.

This seems more accurate to me.