Fat Acceptance

[Adam_spawner]

Let them live however they wanna live they're obviously starting campaigns to higher self eslteem and confidence but hey looking trump is president, welcome to 2018, obesity will be more and more seen as it's increasing, sure we shouldn't be praising it but it's not a bad thing to accept it.

 

[ChoccyBrights]

I think (In general) more than 20% bodyfat shouldn't be praised or accepted, it's physically unhealthy to be overweight, and it can make some aspects of life difficult, unless you have a real, medical condition that makes you be overweight, in my opinion lose weight.

 

[0120012345]

First of all, you didn't answer my question about referring to the obese as "subhuman". Moving on...

Obesity generates a lot of healthcare expenses, yes. Guess what else does? Living an extra 20 years and potentially being saddled with dementia, cancer, assisted living, etc. Those studies only looked at the healthcare costs of the obese, but never compared them to other groups - say, the normal healthy population, or smokers.

Lifetime Medical Costs of Obesity: Prevention No Cure for Increasing Health Expenditure

Now, since that seems to be the biggest source of your discontent (and oddly, anger), surely you've changed your mind?



Smokers who have children are more likely to smoke. Same goes for the children of Christians, alcoholics, people with psychological issues, people who are skinny but not physically active, people with low IQ scores, etc. Pretty much anything a parent does influences their child - but where's your outrage against those parents?



They have great influence? How do you quantify that? What measures of influence are you using?



Statistically they're not normal, in that they're in the minority of the world's population, but I don't see any reason to consider them subhuman.



The world is full of bad influences. If you're a parent, it's your job to teach your kids to not let society dictate what they should do. If you can't do that, maybe having kids isn't a great idea.

They're either subhuman in terms of their body retaining too much weight or they're subhuman in terms of their mind being too weak to stop them from overeating. Habits. Choices. Decisions. The list goes on.

You're pitting POOR DECISIONS vs. ILLNESS/SICKNESS/DISEASE. See where I'm getting at? Of course I distrust morbidly obese individuals, they're able to do something about their weight, instead, they choose to be expensive burdens. I am aware that there are genetic diseases linked with morbid obesity. THAT is the real minority you are referring to. Not the posers in the Fat Fighters video, who are no more than enablers, and morons who are fighting a one-sided battle.

But are we talking about smokers, though? I dislike smokers as well, but that's a different area that we should talk about some other time. Why seek my 'outrage' in a completely different topic?

They do have great influence — but would metrics matter that much in this discussion though? What if they DO have massive influence, what if they don't? What would that accomplish? But to spoon feed you, attached herewith is a link that contains the identites of the fatties in the show. (click this Fat Fighters)


What I don't understand is why you're so caught up in the idea that these individuals are NOT inferior. I wouldn't disrespect them unless they disrespect me, but that's a matter of moral and ethical choices. But there is no dispute whether if morbidly obese individuals are inferior or not.

— and how are you able to depict my mood, my tone, and my emotions without the help of phonetics? You are mistaking upset, rage, and anger for uneuphemized descriptions.

 

[RecklessMatt]

I'm 23 and weigh under 8 stone. I have a metabolism that burns off my fats I presume too quickly? To what I consume.

I also have an eating disorder, I haven't ate vegetables or fruit since i was around 7 and my diet consists of around 15 types of food. Its a tough challenge but last week i went adventurous and tried eating chicken Tikka. Which was a big challenge for me. And i enjoyed it!

Now the foods I do live on are like pizza, pasta, plain burgers etc. I realistically should be overweight but I'm underweight.

My son who is 8 months old has 3 hospital appointments next mon, tue, wed at different hospitals located in the UK and is being tested for rare metabolics and genetics diseases including having liver biopsys and even brain and heart scans as his failure to gain weight has caused failure to thrive since he has been weeks old.

This is all unrelated but story cut short i dont think I'd ever be in a position to judge (not that i would anyway, its their life and I do believe in truthful criticism over letting somebody deteriorate but would never tell somebody I think they should lose weight).
As facing my own struggles for years and years trying to gain weight and no results it is probably just as difficult as someone opposed to me trying to do the opposite.

My son is also on high energy formula milk and eats all foods like a pig. It just doesn't stay down him and his weight littlely improves only because of the high energy formula he has to strictly take.

I'm still unhealthy and trying to defeat my food fears and eat more healthier foods, but some people who are more healthier than i will ever be will still probably be overweight because of the metabolism they have and how the fat process works in their body.

I'm no different i feel, i eat unhealthy but because nobody can see weight on me they think im healthier than somebody overweight, not at all.

It's nobodys business on somebodys weight, why someone should have a problem with someones weight is beyond me, let them be and if they want to make the change its up to them. But saying things like go on a diet or you're gonna be obese doesn't help. If somebody says to me you're anorexic or tries telling me to eat more it's only going to make me anxious and matters worst.

I just believe it isn't so much a person's fault if they become overweight, as different reasons can cause different outcomes in people's lives. Such as dramatic weight gain from depression for an example.

Please ignore my typos (I'm on my phone and its cracked) and my knowledge is very uneducated on this subject but wanted to also share my experience and the difficulties me and my son have with weight gain. I always ate healthy as a kid, now i dont. But my son eats healthy but still suffers the same problem.

 

[Shredderbeam]

They're either subhuman in terms of their body retaining too much weight or they're subhuman in terms of their mind being too weak to stop them from overeating. Habits. Choices. Decisions. The list goes on.

What do you actually think "subhuman" means?

You're pitting POOR DECISIONS vs. ILLNESS/SICKNESS/DISEASE. See where I'm getting at? Of course I distrust morbidly obese individuals, they're able to do something about their weight, instead, they choose to be expensive burdens. I am aware that there are genetic diseases linked with morbid obesity. THAT is the real minority you are referring to. Not the posers in the Fat Fighters video, who are no more than enablers, and morons who are fighting a one-sided battle.

Did you not read my source? The obese SAVE society money by dying early. So, like I said over a year ago, since the waste of societal resources seems to be your biggest trigger, surely I've changed your mind?

But are we talking about smokers, though? I dislike smokers as well, but that's a different area that we should talk about some other time. Why seek my 'outrage' in a completely different topic?

Sometimes, it's helpful to compare two situations. You're angry that obese parents can increase their children's likelihood of obesity - but virtually anything parents do increases their children's likelihood of copying them. Do you have equal rage against all parents who take up harmful habits?

They do have great influence — but would metrics matter that much in this discussion though? What if they DO have massive influence, what if they don't? What would that accomplish? But to spoon feed you, attached herewith is a link that contains the identites of the fatties in the show.

That doesn't spoon feed me anything. I asked you why you think those specific individuals have great influence - do you have an answer, or not?

What I don't understand is why you're so caught up in the idea that these individuals are NOT inferior. I wouldn't disrespect them unless they disrespect me, but that's a matter of moral and ethical choices. But there is no dispute whether if morbidly obese individuals are inferior or not.

I said that I don't see why they're subhuman. Can you explain that?

— and how are you able to depict my mood, my tone, and my emotions without the help of phonetics? You are mistaking upset, rage, and anger for uneuphemized descriptions.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. You yourself said that you have upset, rage, and anger, so I don't know what you think I'm trying to depict you as.

 

[Vlad]

As someone who used to be excessively overweight, ideologies like this are absolute poison. The first few times as a teenager when I made huge strides in trying to change my health, I was told by my (also) overweight friends at the time that what I was doing was wrong. I was trying to be someone I wasn't, that I let other individuals get to me, that I shouldn't change because of being insulted, that I was "caving" to them, you name it. It's shitty that fat people get insulted all the time. I was there, and I know it is really shitty to be constantly insulted over something which it is incredibly hard (seemingly impossible) to change. However, if it wasn't for those insults, I would've never managed to gain the strength to dig myself out of that deep hole. Every time I ran as a 15 year old I would think about all the times people had insulted me about it, and when I thought I couldn't do it that day, I remembered all the things I'd already lost out on as a result of my weight. For people that have never been overweight, you lose so much out of life by being insecure in the way you look. You can't go to the beach because it means you have to take your shirt off. You can't go swimming. If you're with friends and they're all climbing trees, good luck mustering any kind of confidence to try to climb it. It fundamentally inhibits your ability to live your life the way you want to. This isn't even touching on the health concerns. The effects of it are psychologically damaging because it plants insecurity so deeply in your psyche that many overweight people are never able to change any aspect of their lives as they're too insecure or unmotivated about it. Fat acceptance movements gives these people an "out" as they don't feel like they should be challenged about it. As @malakadang touched on, the issue is also related to PC culture. Everyone should constantly be challenged about their beliefs. Why a person has let their health decline to such an extent out of nothing but gluttony and laziness is no exception. It is through this challenge and struggle that people are able to find strength and security.

inb4 not all people are fat out of choice/illness/etc - they're the exception not the norm

 

[Admires]

As someone who used to be excessively overweight, ideologies like this are absolute poison. The first few times as a teenager when I made huge strides in trying to change my health, I was told by my (also) overweight friends at the time that what I was doing was wrong. I was trying to be someone I wasn't, that I let other individuals get to me, that I shouldn't change because of being insulted, that I was "caving" to them, you name it. It's shitty that fat people get insulted all the time. I was there, and I know it is really shitty to be constantly insulted over something which it is incredibly hard (seemingly impossible) to change. However, if it wasn't for those insults, I would've never managed to gain the strength to dig myself out of that deep hole. Every time I ran as a 15 year old I would think about all the times people had insulted me about it, and when I thought I couldn't do it that day, I remembered all the things I'd already lost out on as a result of my weight. For people that have never been overweight, you lose so much out of life by being insecure in the way you look. You can't go to the beach because it means you have to take your shirt off. You can't go swimming. If you're with friends and they're all climbing trees, good luck mustering any kind of confidence to try to climb it. It fundamentally inhibits your ability to live your life the way you want to. This isn't even touching on the health concerns. The effects of it are psychologically damaging because it plants insecurity so deeply in your psyche that many overweight people are never able to change any aspect of their lives as they're too insecure or unmotivated about it. Fat acceptance movements gives these people an "out" as they don't feel like they should be challenged about it. As @malakadang touched on, the issue is also related to PC culture. Everyone should constantly be challenged about their beliefs. Why a person has let their health decline to such an extent out of nothing but gluttony and laziness is no exception. It is through this challenge and struggle that people are able to find strength and security.

inb4 not all people are fat out of choice/illness/etc - they're the exception not the norm

I've never been overweight, however, countless research has shown that the genetic make-up of an individual predetermines his or her weight to an extremely large extent. You saying they are the exception and not the norm is simply false. If you would like, I could link you some studies that demonstrate how one's genetics is the largest determining factor of how much they will weigh based on their basal metabolism.

Also, just based on personal experience, I have some friends who don't move from their chairs and have the most unhealthy diet, however, they're as skinny as twigs. I have a couple other friends who follow a strict diet and exercise regularly, however, they're grossly overweight. I don't exercise at all and my diet is absolutely horrible. I eat out a lot of the week and don't really move all that much. I'm still at a BMI of 22.

 

[heavygains31]

Lost 20 kilos over the past year, best choice ive ever made

You don't really notice the full extent of being really fat until you loose weight and trust me its alot, basically my entire body is semi-injured from the knees to the shoulders (literally just walking as an obese person will fuck ur knees)

 

Lost 20 kilos over the past year, best choice ive ever made

You don't really notice the full extent of being really fat until you loose weight and trust me its alot, basically my entire body is semi-injured from the knees to the shoulders (literally just walking as an obese person will fuck ur knees)

Nice man! more like heavylosses31 right?

You pull up an interesting point. It can be a viscous cycle. Injuries can lead to obesity which then can worsen the injury.

 

[heavygains31]

Nice man! more like heavylosses31 right?

You pull up an interesting point. It can be a viscous cycle. Injuries can lead to obesity which then can worsen the injury.

well heavygains was referring to like weightlifting gains haha but thank you

yea i mean in like an overgenerelized way to see it is that a human body deteriorates till death and if ur over/underweight that process tends to happen a lot faster

 

[Shredderbeam]

As someone who used to be excessively overweight, ideologies like this are absolute poison. The first few times as a teenager when I made huge strides in trying to change my health, I was told by my (also) overweight friends at the time that what I was doing was wrong. I was trying to be someone I wasn't, that I let other individuals get to me, that I shouldn't change because of being insulted, that I was "caving" to them, you name it. It's shitty that fat people get insulted all the time. I was there, and I know it is really shitty to be constantly insulted over something which it is incredibly hard (seemingly impossible) to change. However, if it wasn't for those insults, I would've never managed to gain the strength to dig myself out of that deep hole. Every time I ran as a 15 year old I would think about all the times people had insulted me about it, and when I thought I couldn't do it that day, I remembered all the things I'd already lost out on as a result of my weight. For people that have never been overweight, you lose so much out of life by being insecure in the way you look. You can't go to the beach because it means you have to take your shirt off. You can't go swimming. If you're with friends and they're all climbing trees, good luck mustering any kind of confidence to try to climb it. It fundamentally inhibits your ability to live your life the way you want to. This isn't even touching on the health concerns. The effects of it are psychologically damaging because it plants insecurity so deeply in your psyche that many overweight people are never able to change any aspect of their lives as they're too insecure or unmotivated about it. Fat acceptance movements gives these people an "out" as they don't feel like they should be challenged about it. As @malakadang touched on, the issue is also related to PC culture. Everyone should constantly be challenged about their beliefs. Why a person has let their health decline to such an extent out of nothing but gluttony and laziness is no exception. It is through this challenge and struggle that people are able to find strength and security.

inb4 not all people are fat out of choice/illness/etc - they're the exception not the norm

I'm glad that you were encouraged. Do you think that the way you were encouraged was the best possible way?

If you're fine with living fat then more power to you. But don't go around and try to say you're fat because of X or Y. If you start to do that then you piss people off.

You like to eat food that tastes good in large quantities. Good, more power to you. Live the way you want to live.

A few people actually are fat because of hormonal disorders, or thyroid disorders, etc. Let's not lump everybody together.

 

[WhoTookDeezNuts]

I'm glad that you were encouraged. Do you think that the way you were encouraged was the best possible way?



A few people actually are fat because of hormonal disorders, or thyroid disorders, etc. Let's not lump everybody together.

Sucks for them.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Sucks for them.

Yeah it's unfortunate - I'm only pointing it out because we're in a debate forum. Just thought I'd let you know.

 

[Admires]

True, people have different bodies and they do behave differently under the same conditions, but there's also simple calorie math. If I consume less calories a day than I burn, I'll lose weight. This applies to everyone.

Genetics don't determine your weight, that's silly. They may be inclined to make your weight trend a certain way given the means, but that's why you eat less than you burn.

It's all willpower, at least for people without severe conditions.

If you genetics make your basal metabolism burn only 1000 calories a day, you'll have a hard time maintaining a healthy weight. Genetics is the main determining factor in your weight and is proved through countless peer reviewed sources. If you want to private message me, I can share sources with you.

Somebody can have all the determination in the world, but if he was dealt a bad hand in genetics, he'll never lose weight.

 

[Admires]

Straight contradiction. To be alive you have to burn calories. Burning calories means you're losing weight. Eat less than what you burn and try to burn more and you'll lose weight. It's common irrefutable sense.

If someone is burning less than a thousand calories a day when working out and being active, that'd be classified as a severe condition, if not a impossibility. On this thread we're not discussing the fringe cases, but the trend of being overweight. 99% of people burn well over 1000 calories a day if they exercise.

What I described is a fringe case. But genetics do determine your basal metabolism. Yours might be burning 2000 calories a day while mine might be burning 1800 a day which is small in terms of genetics, but huge if you take those 200 calories a day and compound them over weeks.

 

[Stuxc]

I think the problem goes deeper then this. Obesity is becoming extremely common. What impacts will this have on the health and life expectancy of humans? What kind of trend are we setting?

 

[RetroPalms]

It's one of those movements today that sounds fine on paper, but the proponents mostly sound as if they're insane. If you want me to respect that some of us like to eat more, have less control over their fat, et cetera, I can accept that. That doesn't seem like something I should really even have to think about; I would think that comes with being a decent human being. But that doesn't seem to be what's actually being supported. It seems more like they want me to accept being 300 pound blobs as normal. That might not be the way they want me to take their message, but that's the way they make it sound to me.

Let's make something clear. If you are so large that you're a large obstacle when people are moving around, there's a problem. If watching you sit down makes me wonder if you're going to break the furniture, there's a problem. If your body needs two seats instead of one, there's a problem. Any situation where your sheer mass causes or threatens to cause problems for someone else is indicative of a problem. We shouldn't treat you like scum of the Earth and we should try to be as helpful as is reasonable, but you can't seriously demand to be treated as entirely normal.

 

[ilovegold69]

Right, so a very very small fraction of overweight people have a condition that makes losing weight very very difficult. The rest just don't have the willpower to change or don't care to.

This doesn't take into account the genetic component in addiction, and the environmental component of bad eating habits. Heroin addicts often have a hard time finding the "willpower" to change as do people who are afraid of heights, or those who don't like asparagus.

Furthermore, I think it's a stretch to say this movement has much of any backing at all. I find that most of the people who "need" this movement are displeasing to be around because of their actions, and not their weight (i.e. polyamorous pansexual tinder snowflakes who are perfectly happy with the bottomless olive garden garlic black dick in their inbox 24/7). Most fat people are far too introverted and ashamed to actually ask for more sympathy, let alone put themselves out there as an oppressed minority.

 

[norfwest]

Fat acceptance is better than the opposite because fat persons should be accepted for who they are as individuals in their entirety. Accepting something is the first step to understanding it. And understanding fat, weight, healthy and unhealthy behaviors leads to healthy weights and people.

 

[Aiii]

Acceptance should be normalising the destruction of your body, but it should treat it more like an addiction or disease and provide better care.