Do you support taxation?

[FireZ]

That's not budgeting


.

Thats exactly how the government would answer you.

 

[Try and run]

Thats exactly how the government would answer you.

So we've established that we live under a pitiful government. It's a sad world we live in. I guess that we just need better people to run it =O.

 

[Konner for 2012]

Those better people will never come along unfortunately.

We'll be stuck to this monotonous routine of having half of our budget siphoned out to the 'public' for the bettering of society.

 

I would argue to say it is Valid property, The Political party's given legitimate power by the people and are furthermore sanctioned to form government which is to represent the country.

So, the "political party" is given power by some people over other people? This is the definition of slavery.

The rich and well off are taxed to help provide for the natural dependents, because there isnt enough government spending going into creating jobs

How ridiculous. If government spending creates jobs, then Zimbabwe should be booming. North Korea should be the envy of the world.

In fact, why even have a private sector? If the government can create jobs then we can have free jobs and free money for everyone! Communism here we come!

influencing people to start opening new businesses..etc.
Im not sure for australia but the UK is suffering because our industry market is dead

I'm not here to teach you economics but I'll give you an introduction:

[youtube]ROdsf6lVs1c[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1rEUOCH3EQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3OUN6NUynE&feature=related

Rest of the book:
http://www.hacer.org/pdf/Hazlitt00.pdf

We get cheap imports and thousands of businesses That are not retailers are failing.
Also, again, what about the people who are unfit to work and the disabled, HOW can they provide for themselves?

There is no distinction within government, YES they are thieves, but they're providing to the poor, kind of modernistic Robin Hood.

It is quite evident that you are uneducated in the field of economics, so I think it is dishonest of you to present any positions in this field.

Incidentally, since we have established that you support taxation, can you pay my taxes now?

 

I support taxation. I have more money than I "need" and I gladly pay my taxes and give contributions to help the less fortunate and make life easier.

Fantastic!! Send me a cheque? $5000 for this year.

Can we get a contract going where you pay these "taxes" they send me for the rest of my life? I mean you support taxation right?

 

[cheater2010]

yeah i support it but i live in australia and last year only made 28k and thats the lowest tax bracket lol so i got back like $3600 lol and i aint paying your taxes you can pay mine lol

ok so why did i get an infraction for this? i think its on topic?

 

[Travis]

So your volunteering to pay my FICA/State/Federal tax for me on each one of my paychecks? I only got "back" $1500 or so last year.

The government tries to act as if they are nice in giving me back what was mine already anyways.


For tax lovers, what on earth can taxes do that we as "citizens" cannot do ourselves?

Your lucky i paid something like 10k in taxes last business year and got around $100 back.

Fantastic!! Send me a cheque? $5000 for this year.

Can we get a contract going where you pay these "taxes" they send me for the rest of my life? I mean you support taxation right?

So you would rather someone else pay you government debt? I'm sure there is something that you use in your day to day life that is paid for by taxes.

 

So you would rather someone else pay you government debt?

Debt? What debt?

A debt is created when a creditor agrees to lend a sum of assets to a debtor.

Where is the evidence of this alleged debt? I made no contract with anyone calling themselves 'the government.'

Or do you believe debts can be just fabricated and foisted on people without their consent?

I'm sure there is something that you use in your day to day life that is paid for by taxes.

I'm pretty sure I pay for what I use already, but if its important to you, and you think that I am not paying for what I use, then send me a bill for exactly what I use, and I will pay it.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure you'd allege that I own a part of the public property to begin with, so I don't know why I should be paying to use my own infrastructure.

You fucking statists sicken me. Put up or shut up. You support taxes, come pay the fucking taxes then. You support war, come pay for the fucking war then. You support public education, come and teach these kids then.

Put up or shut up. I'm not the idiot who supports these programmes. I'm not the idiot who supports nationalizing every industry in every country and printing money like there's no tomorrow. Why must I suffer? Why must I live in an inferior world with degraded access to resources and severely limited freedoms because YOU IDIOTS don't know how to keep your bigotry in your pants? Take your welfare state, your 'war on drugs', your 'war on terror', you 'public education', and your 'public healthcare', shove it up your ass, and pay for it yourself. It has nothing to do with me. I never consented. I never voted. I never used 'the system'. The system doesn't even work, and never did!

I am not your slave and you do not have the right to rob and rape me to support your despicable and imbecilic social ends.

So, returning to the original point. Since all of you support taxation, I'm waiting for you to pay the taxes. Where is your cheque? It should be forthcoming.

 

[Travis]

Where is the evidence of this alleged debt? I made no contract with anyone calling themselves 'the government.'
Or do you believe debts can be just fabricated and foisted on people without their consent?

In the case of taxes it would appear so. We all know what tax is yet we never get the chance to deny it ourselves, We may moan about it, hate it, love it but in the end we have to pay it regardless.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure you'd allege that I own a part of the public property to begin with, so I don't know why I should be paying to use my own infrastructure.

If only this were true, Although it never will be so.

you do not have the right to rob and rape me

Whether or not society See's fit, I have the right to do so. To remove tax is to remove government which in turn removes law and order.

So, returning to the original point. Since all of you support taxation, I'm waiting for you to pay the taxes. Where is your cheque? It should be forthcoming.

Almost temped to but $5k is a little steep to pay in one hit.

 

[OneEyd]

Fantastic!! Send me a cheque? $5000 for this year.

Can we get a contract going where you pay these "taxes" they send me for the rest of my life? I mean you support taxation right?

I'll do my part, you do yours. If you don't like it then I guess your just screwed. You don't seem to have much of an original thought process I see a lot of what you spit out regurgitated arguments that I have read by college freshmen, or you just link some crap you find of the net. People make valid points and you just shit on em blindly. Your part of the reason the country is the way it is, talk a bunch of crap and do nothing about it. I would like to see you, or anyone bitching here for that matter, live in a country that doesn't have taxes or a civilized government. More than likely you wouldn't survive. I have been to the South Pacific and the West Indies, among other less fortunate areas of the world, on several occasions. Try telling those people your thoughts and see how many would actually agree with your train of thought.

You could always go live with a militia in Montana, they might enjoy your ranting.

 

[Feren Silver]

I don't.

The government does. I never voted for government either.

So I guess I don't have too.

Then don't use anything that taxation provides. Don't use our public roads, don't use our public facilitates, or services. You can't even go and live out in the woods, the conservation of that is paid by the government, funded by taxes.

If you don't like taxes, feel free to leave and go somewhere that doesn't have taxes.

 

In the case of taxes it would appear so. We all know what tax is yet we never get the chance to deny it ourselves, We may moan about it, hate it, love it but in the end we have to pay it regardless.

Not an argument.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure you'd allege that I own a part of the public property to begin with, so I don't know why I should be paying to use my own infrastructure.

If only this were true, Although it never will be so.

Not an argument.

you do not have the right to rob and rape me

Whether or not society See's fit, I have the right to do so.

You have the right to rape me?

You believe in rape?

I don't think this needs addressing really, but:

Not an argument. Repulsive.

Your fallacy has been called 'the argument from effect.'

Outline:
If X causes Y, and Y is desirable, then the independent fact of X being immoral is not affected by the independent fact of Y being desirable. That is: if X is immoral, then it is absolutely immoral, regardless of Y.

Your "argument" has been used to justify slavery:

"Slavery gives us cheap goods, and cheap goods are desirable, therefore slavery is desirable."

I won't even address the fact you think its ok for any majority to rape any minority, except to point out that you have now justified (under your code) the holocaust, slavery, stonnings, state religion, conscription, communism, state organ harvesting, cannibalism, and pretty much Pandora's entire box of evils.

To remove tax is to remove government which in turn removes law and order.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_mercatoria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law

Law is not a function of government. Yes it has been nationalized by criminal syndicates called "the government", but it is no more their domain than drugs are the domain of the mafia.

 

I'll do my part, you do yours.

And what, pray tell, is my part. How is it determined?

 

[Smellex]

Then don't use anything that taxation provides. Don't use our public roads, don't use our public facilitates, or services. You can't even go and live out in the woods, the conservation of that is paid by the government, funded by taxes.

If you don't like taxes, feel free to leave and go somewhere that doesn't have taxes.

I don't support taxes but I pay for them?

Because I don't support it? You're telling me not to use any government related infrastructure? I pay for taxes like everyone else.

 

[Smellex]

Well because they support taxation, and we do not.

And what has earnings go to to do with it?

At the end of the day,

Because we earn we pay taxes.

Basically it's our fault we pay taxes.

 

I don't support taxes but I pay for them?

Because I don't support it? You're telling me not to use any government related infrastructure? I pay for taxes like everyone else.

The infrastructure "argument", behold:

"The government stole our money to buy poor quality infrastructure, then forbade (at gun point) anyone else to build competing infrastructure.

Now there is a government monopoly on infrastructure, and if you want to leave your house then you'd better pay the government 40% of your income !!!"

It's such a nonsense argument. I cannot believe how many people are pushing it in this thread.

Firstly, it is not the government's infrastructure. Anything bought with stolen money belongs to the person or people from whom the money was stolen. So we who use that infrastructure already own it, I don't have to pay to use it.

Secondly, the criminals doing business as "the government" are using a standing army called 'the police' to prevent other people from building infrastructure. And this fact alone should alert you, dear reader, to the fact that this is not a voluntary transaction (i.e. payment for services rendered) but EXTORTION.

So to say it for the millionth time today: not an argument. The "government" neither owns infrastructure, nor should I have to pay them to use it.

 

[Smellex]

The infrastructure "argument", behold:

"The government stole our money to buy poor quality infrastructure, then forbade (at gun point) anyone else to build competing infrastructure.

Now there is a government monopoly on infrastructure, and if you want to leave your house then you'd better pay the government 40% of your income !!!"

It's such a nonsense argument. I cannot believe how many people are pushing it in this thread.

Firstly, it is not the government's infrastructure. Anything bought with stolen money belongs to the person or people from whom the money was stolen. So we who use that infrastructure already own it, I don't have to pay to use it.

Secondly, the criminals doing business as "the government" are using a standing army called 'the police' to prevent other people from building infrastructure. And this fact alone should alert you, dear reader, to the fact that this is not a voluntary transaction (i.e. payment for services rendered) but EXTORTION.

So to say it for the millionth time today, it is not an argument. That government "owns infrastructure" which I need to drive on to get to work does not justify taxation.

Is it stolen money if we agreed to pay for it?

What about the people who work for the government and get the wages from them directly.

I'm not arguing at those points listed above, I'm asking.

 

Is it stolen money if we agreed to pay for it?

No one agreed to pay it.

You necessarily cannot come up with any evidence to support this position for the same reason that you can't use testimonials from coerced persons in court. Legally, factually, no one knows what people actually think until the threats against their person are taken away.

What about the people who work for the government and get the wages from them directly.

What about them?

 

[Smellex]

@SYTHE




Yes,

There was never a poll/decision on whether we should pay tax or not, but in all honesty I thought people just accepted the fact, we pay for taxes automatically, like a mutual agreement wise.

We use there roads etc, although heavy tolls are a pain sometimes and also speeding fines/tickets etc.. But that's going off-topic.

Tax is always going to be a issue and a problem but I guess we can argue and debate about the topic but nothing will change, unless the government dies automatically dies.. Then we can take our garbage to the tip every week too! < Going off-topic again

Most of us can afford rent/mortgage etc so I guess tax isn't a huge issue for us?

If it was too much, obviously things would have changed.

Like I mentioned before, if we didn't want to pay tax. Let's all stop working and sit and complain/winge but nothing will change.

 

@SYTHE
Yes,

There was never a poll/decision on whether we should pay tax or not, but in all honesty I thought people just accepted the fact, we pay for taxes automatically, like a mutual agreement wise.

It would need to be individual contracts with each person, just like you have with your telephone provider, your electricity providers, etc. I don't understand why people think the people doing business as 'the government' is exempt from behaving in an ethical, social and legal manner.

We use there roads etc, although heavy tolls are a pain sometimes and also speeding fines/tickets etc.. But that's going off-topic.

Well to be quite frank about it, aside from the fact I already own the portion I drive on, logically, I also pay a 50% fuel tax, and $800 a year registration. So I think I'm paying for that piece of infrastructure about 50 times over already, considering I only drive to uni.

Tax is always going to be a issue and a problem but I guess we can argue and debate about the topic but nothing will change, unless the government dies automatically dies.. Then we can take our garbage to the tip every week too! < Going off-topic again

Why can't you just pay to have private pickup? You pay to bring groceries to your house. Pay to have the leftovers taken away...

Most of us can afford rent/mortgage etc so I guess tax isn't a huge issue for us?

If it was too much, obviously things would have changed.

Like I mentioned before, if we didn't want to pay tax. Let's all stop working and sit and complain/winge but nothing will change.

Well this is what I also don't understand. Why is my "tax burden" dependent on my income? Let us suppose for a minute that tax is justified, then why should the bill be a percentage of income? Government "services" have a definite finite cost, just like every other service, so send me a bill in accordance with what I use, or don't send me anything at all.

The truth is: taxation is slavery, not theft. And this, and no other reason, is why taxes are a percentage of your income.