Diplomacy errors.

The point is, the matter was already public. As I have said numerous times in the past (anyone seeing a pattern?) the staff have caused this drama, not the users. The fact is, all the information on the thread was and still is accessible by everyone. The thread didn't contain any sensitive information. When you hide information and suddenly ban members that contributed to it, people are going to get mad. They are going to call you out and things are going to get worse.

I don't know why Tyro is banned but someone could have just reached out to him. Tell everyone that the list was being taken into consideration by the staff and leave the thread in the public eye. Assure the community that steps are being taken to correct the problems they see and ask them for their opinions. Make the community feel like it matters by putting yourself out there. It does not even matter if anything actually happens. It doesn't matter if you lie to everyone. It would still work out better for the stability of the forum.

Words cannot explain how much you piss me off.

 

[SuF]

Words cannot explain how much you piss me off.

Why? Because I'm telling you that the group your apart of acting incorrectly?

 

[Aroxez]

Sigh. You all completely misunderstood me. I just meant that if we wanted to make these kind of issues public, we would.

Alright, but you don't understand that this is starting to cause e-drama. You're not releasing why Tyro was banned, because of why? Why would you want to hide something from your loyal members? The fact that WE donate to this website, and we're the ones that are making this happen for you (by posting, trading, bringing fame in) and you have to hide stuff from us? I think of supporting this site, we have a right to know what's going on with our community members, I think I'm speaking for most of us here by saying; we want to know what's going on. What're you going to do? If you don't like someone; ban them for no reason? Apparently that's what's happening.

 

Why? Because I'm telling you that the group your apart of acting incorrectly?

No. I'm just sick of people like you, shooting your acid at me and the other staff when we had very little to do with any of this apparent 'misconduct'. The actions taken were above me, and still are.

Alright, but you don't understand that this is starting to cause e-drama. You're not releasing why Tyro was banned, because of why? Why would you want to hide something from your loyal members? The fact that WE donate to this website, and we're the ones that are making this happen for you (by posting, trading, bringing fame in) and you have to hide stuff from us? I think of supporting this site, we have a right to know what's going on with our community members, I think I'm speaking for most of us here by saying; we want to know what's going on. What're you going to do? If you don't like someone; ban them for no reason? Apparently that's what's happening.

I don't KNOW the exact reason Tyro was banned. Like I said, this situation is above me.

 

[Pokerking88]

Words cannot explain how much you piss me off.

SuF is just telling you the truth, and trying to make this site better.

 

[SuF]

No. I'm just sick of people like you, shooting your acid at me and the other staff when we had very little to do with any of this apparent 'misconduct'. The actions taken were above me, and still are.



I don't KNOW the exact reason Tyro was banned. Like I said, this situation is above me.

I'm sorry then. I don't know who did what. I don't know who's deciding what. All I know is that you are an admin. If things are above you something is really wrong. There is nothing anyone else can do to try to solve this. It's not even about Tyro anymore. It's not about Finn. It's just about trying to bring the community back to a place where people can trust the staff. This really only is going to be done if there is some transparency like Sin has said. I know you have no control over whats going on but you do have more than we do.

 

[Sin666]

I honestly don't understand why some of you think this is any of your business <_<

You don't see why members would be concerned if they believed the people running this site were concealing impropriety? Frankly, I'd be worried if any involved member of the community believed unfair treatment and cover-ups were being done, and didn't think it was any of their business to oppose. Concerns over the future of this site is not limited to staff, even if members mistakenly form their opinions with limited information. Most of the people asking for answers and explanations merely want their suspicions appeased, which is precisely why I encouraged disclosure.

Meanwhile, although I've stated that this really isn't the correct place to debate specific bans, I fully understand the attempt to do so, in relation to the above.

 

I'm sorry then. I don't know who did what. I don't know who's deciding what. All I know is that you are an admin. If things are above you something is really wrong. There is nothing anyone else can do to try to solve this. It's not even about Tyro anymore. It's not about Finn. It's just about trying to bring the community back to a place where people can trust the staff. This really only is going to be done if there is some transparency like Sin has said. I know you have no control over whats going on but you do have more than we do.

The staff CAN be trusted. You're seeing everything through clouded vision, just like you always do. It's not just you that's guilty of it either; most people in this thread are looking for the worst things they can possibly find wrong with this site and magnifying them x100.

You don't see why members would be concerned if they believed the people running this site were concealing impropriety? Frankly, I'd be worried if any involved member of the community believed unfair treatment and cover-ups were being done, and didn't think it was any of their business to oppose. Concerns over the future of this site is not limited to staff, even if members mistakenly form their opinions with limited information. Most of the people asking for answers and explanations merely want their suspicions appeased, which is precisely why I encouraged disclosure.

Meanwhile, although I've stated that this really isn't the correct place to debate specific bans, I fully understand the attempt to do so, in relation to the above.

I guess people didn't see that Sythe did make a public response, shortly before the thread was relocated to the staff lounge. It's not so much a censorship kind of issue, more of a 'let's take this to one side and discuss it rationally without angry children' kinda thing.

 

[SuF]

The staff CAN be trusted. You're seeing everything through clouded vision, just like you always do. It's not just you that's guilty of it either; most people in this thread are looking for the worst things they can possibly find wrong with this site and magnifying them x100.

I see the same issues pop up again and again. I have suggested ways for these issues to be fixed. There is no reason that the fixes can not be used. The staff just seems more and more unwilling to see the problems that are so apparent from the outside and address them. I may have chosen the wrong wording. I want the staff to at least try to make the members of Sythe feel like they mean something.

I guess people didn't see that Sythe did make a public response, shortly before the thread was relocated to the staff lounge. It's not so much a censorship kind of issue, more of a 'let's take this to one side and discuss it rationally without angry children' kinda thing.

That's another reason why the thread should have just been copied as it normally is / was done. Theres no reason to not let the "anger children" thing go on as you know that it won't effect any final decisions at all, right?

 

[RSzerkers]

I feel that this thread, the last few posts exempt, shows similar beliefs (Misconceptions possibly?) among the users of Sythe.

@Verts I understand what you are saying, and your decision to take aside the supposed post and investigate, but the way it was initially handled instilled suspicion among many other users of Sythe. The thread was moved and members banned without any saying or public notice. I support you and I now understand why the staff took the action they did. You have fulfilled some of my curiosity and I am now more at ease than before.

Hopefully some of the other members will understand and come to a realization just as I have.

Sorry for this being such a large ordeal,
Sean (Rszerkers)


EDIT: I know this post is contrary to what I stated before, but as more information has been presented I have come to a better understanding.

 

[SuF]

The problem is that you're viewing the issue from your own perspective, but it's important to be aware how this situation looks to almost every other member. The reason people are so enthusiastic (magnifying issues x100, as you say) is presumably because they feel the allegations of misconduct were confirmed by the site's actions, jumping, as they have, to the obvious assumption for the reasons behind them.

Well said.

 

[i noob killer i]

I think that we should know basic details and I like how SMR has come and told us the details. We should definately respect the staffs opinions and the calls they have made and see how it pans out. I also think that we should be allowed to give negative feedback as everyone knows negative feedback enables us as a website to move forward.

 

[Aroxez]

I think that we should know basic details and I like how SMR has come and told us the details. We should definately respect the staffs opinions and the calls they have made and see how it pans out. I also think that we should be allowed to give negative feedback as everyone knows negative feedback enables us as a website to move forward.

Nicely said, I feel like we're not allowed to give feedback to certain members (will not name names) but the fact that it seems to be that we're only allowed to give positive feedback is really hurting the site. Some of the forum leaders can't take constructive criticism. Positive feedback is a good thing, but honestly I'd rather see negative feedback. Negative feedback is improvement, and improvement means that you can just watch the site grow.

 

[RSzerkers]

Thank you SMR and Verts for posting the situation and explaining. It helped my understanding on what actions were taken and why.

 

[OldFinn]

Whilst I intend to wholly address the legitimate concerns voiced by Sin within this thread, this post represents closure; of this particular issue outlined by Sin and indeed the greater, overarching issue. We urge trolls to cease their implicit and factional stirring, and for members to return to their normal activities -- decisions made by the Sythe.org administration are final, and we will be entering into no further public correspondence regarding our findings and actions. We intend to return to fulfilling our role: site management.

Members prominent within the community and off-topic sections tend to tacitly assume their heightened importance; indeed, most staff, for example, are chosen from the elité circle of users that operate within the aformentioned forums. However, the extent to which these users are represented is disproportional. I have always been frank in saying that this site continues to exist in such a great capacity because of its dedication to legitimacy, free trade, and the consequential attraction of marketeers to the site. Indeed, despite the overwhelming majority of users being here for the market, and doing their business quietly, the feedback forum - and a number of other community sections - are dominated by users whose primary interests lie elsewhere. This is a problem for two reasons. The first is the patent overrepresentation of the elité's concerns, and the second is the extent to which staff resources are dedicated to catering for the 0.1% of users whose concerns are unrepresentative of the rest yet are given disproportionate attention. This is no longer a viable approach to site management - the staff and administration are the site's pioneers; we exist to encourage its growth and partake in its management. There exists no time for disproportionate dedication to factional issues. Instead, the staff must step back and observe the bigger picture, which illustrates clearly a numerically slight cliqué consuming almost all staff resources to the detriment of the greater userbase. This cannot continue. To progress Sythe.org, these politically-natured altercations between staff and user have to stop; the administration will no longer waste its resources disproportionately on such a small group whose interests are contrary to those of the majority.

Now that I've responded to the greater issue at hand, I'll respond to the concerns outlined in this thread. Sin rightly remarks that transparency might be prudent in light of recent circumstances, and so I below offer a list of related bannings and the reasons for them. Again, bans made by the Sythe.org administration are final and will no longer be subject to extensive public debate - we have access to a great deal of information that other users do not, and, ultimately, if we feel that a user's actions detract from the spirit of Sythe.org, we will not hesitate to remove them: we are here to manage the site and promote growth, not play games with bored users and allow trolling and whining to waste staff resources that could be invested elsewhere far more appropriately.

Tyro - I was personally surprised to see the extent to which users met Tyro's thread with undiscerning credulity. Roughly a day before creating his thread, Tyro was demoted from his staff position. Indeed, whilst a popular member, Tyro's agenda was far from in line with the ethics and supposed principles he espoused within the thread. Upon his return to staff, Tyro had demanded reinstation as an Administrator. Myself and the other Administrators, however, were reluctant to allow him to return in such a capacity, and so permitted his return as a Global Moderator. An educated guess suggests that the agenda pursued by Tyro following his reinstation was to an end of revenge. Upon being reinstated, he sought - by intelligent means of social engineering - to cause disruption and conflict within the Admin. ranks. I don't care to examine the evidence publically, but it extensively displayed his ulterior motive with unequivocal clarity. All five Administrators were in unanimous agreement that Tyro was to be demoted, and so it was done. The thread appeared a number of hours later. Of course, the thread was riled with inaccuracies and false accusations, although some were valid, yet had been addressed previously -- some as long as four years ago! Whilst Tyro was quite aware of this (he had often said it himself to threads of a similar nature posted in the past), he proceeded nonetheless to post his thread, engendering a smear campaign. We accepted the thread and allowed extensive public discussion. Sythe made the decision to move the thread elsewhere for external, private judgement, indicating closure of the issue to the public. Nonetheless, Tyro proceeded to further spread his compilation of expired and fallacious materials by personal message, contrary to the wishes of Sythe. His corruption within staff ranks, ulterior motive, smear campaign and defiance earned him his ban.

Draucia - banned by SMR. A few months ago, Sythe spent a great deal of his time removing trolls from Sythe.org, whose factional - and indeed illegal - activities were contrary to the spirit of Sythe.org and law. Whilst it was unclear to what extent each individual user belonging to the cliqué held contempt towards the site, Sythe removed those that had been causing the administration trouble and wasting staff resources. Draucia was one of the few that slipped through the net, and had been an integral member of Syed's faction, even leaking to Syed during his brief stint as a staff member. I eventually banned Draucia, only for him to be unbanned arbitrarily and inappropriately by Pen during my absence. Upon returning to staff, I allowed Draucia to return with a last chance. SMR and the other Administrators agreed that his presence was not conducive to the growth and healthy character of Sythe.org, and so we revoked his last chance.

Skillers FTW - banned by SMR. Following Sythe's closure of the smear campaign, Skillers FTW proceeded to host it on its site, enabling Tyro to spread the fallacious and inaccurate sentiment extensively.

Magic Arrow - banned by SMR. Magic Arrow has always been a troll and was almost banned a while ago for his trolling. However, he displayed superficial character reform, and we welcomed him onto the staff. Following his resignation, he promptly returned to his old ways -- the character reform that the Administrators had considered to have occurred was superficial; he proceeded again to troll, insult and spam extensively, and was so removed.

Other users that posted on the thread - a number of other users that contributed to the thread were banned on the simple grounds of their ban evading. A number were corrupt ex-staff members whose corruption had been identified and their accounts banned.

I'd like to reiterate that these bans will not be removed -- we will not welcome threads or posts that deplore our decisions; we have made them for a reason: we deem them to be conducive to continued growth and a better community.

Sythe.org is a Runescape market community, not a parliament for children. Please respect our desire to pioneer a greater and more active future for the site and allow the staff to return their simple management role. Further threads and posts regarding the aforementioned will be removed.