Different standards

[iBuyStoof]

Lately I've come to the realization that people such as superman and cosrob wouldn't be able to obtain their positions despite their staff ranks.

I am referring to both of them getting OMM faster than anyone else on the entire website if it wasn't clear already.

Now I am NOT saying it is unfair that they have obtained these positions, because they completed the OMM application just as anyone else did. What I am saying is I am yet to see anyone step up and say "I'm not sure Superman is ready for the OMM position" and the reason behind it is no one is going to step up and say I don't trust a staff member.

I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm saying Superman isn't a trusted trader or qualified OMM.

Well, I suppose I should just get to the part where I propose some solutions to this.

Solution 1: Staff members should have a different OMM application to complete.

Solution 2: Staff members shouldn't be allowed to be OMM's and should focus on moderating.

Solution 3: Me and other members who have noticed the unfair advantage should get over it.

Now I already see the reply coming in "Staff members earned their position, they are entitled to all benefits they come with it, even if it includes extra trust from other members."

I want to say I am open to any suggestions, I just think its unfair that someone such as Lillie Services isn't going to get OMM anytime soon, although if she was given market mod for a week she could most likely have 100+ members write support on her OMM application(if she even has one) that don't even know/have traded with her, and having [MOD] in her MM thread title will get her all the required business.


Feel free to flame me for this suggestion, I'm ready for all of it

 

[Brendan]

They fill the exact same requirements, and need to go through the exact same process as every other member. The only reason they have an advantage, is the staff know they can trust them over regular members.

 

[cosrob97]

Looks at the start date of Cosrob's mming thread (07-09-2010, 04:29 AM). Looks at date of OMM acceptance (Today, 01:07 AM). Over a year and 6 months >_>.

It was bloody hard.

 

[x339]

Solution 1: Staff members should have a different OMM application to complete.

This could be a good idea, as staff members don't really have to put as much effort into finding high amount trades as a normal member would, however one of the reasons they have become staff is because of their trustworthiness. They obviously earned the trust, so that trust is factored into the OMM process as well.

Solution 2: Staff members shouldn't be allowed to be OMM's and should focus on moderating.

Same thing as above, they earned that trust, so why shouldn't they be recognized for it? There are multiple staff member who are OMM's and I would trust them as much as another OMM.

Solution 3: Me and other members who have noticed the unfair advantage should get over it.

I don't really see it as an unfair advantage. They put the work in, but they just achieved the goal differently. They still had to put the work in to become staff, so why shouldn't that contribute to becoming an OMM as well?

I think the system works fine the way it is.

 

[Karl]

Hah..

Firstly, Don't assume stuff, its not always a straight yes or no poll.

Solution 1: Staff members should have a different OMM application to complete.

I disagree, the application isnt the problem here.. Im pretty sure any staff member do not have to prove their trustworthiness.

Solution 2: Staff members shouldn't be allowed to be OMM's and should focus on moderating.

Absurd.. Limiting staff to make money off this site is unfair.

Solution 3: Me and other members who have noticed the unfair advantage should get over it.

Its not really unfair, if you're trustworthy, then you'll get it.

Its not unfair that users trust staff over others, we're staff after all, we're trusted with most private information related to sythe.org and its users.

 

[The Black Tux]

Tell me about it -_-

I don't agree with either of the solutions you provide, but yeah, I've always thought it is unfair.

 

[James]

When a staff member completes a OMM app, he/she is already well-known by a lot of other regular members of the community, not to mention the high ranks who go about deciding if the OMM rank should actually be granted.

#1: If a random stranger asks you if he could make a call on your phone, telling you (and convincing you) he owns a bank but has lost his phone.
OR
#2 One of your friends asks you to borrow your phone to call home for a bit.

Who would you go for?
You would go for the one you trust the most.
Person #1 may have a lot of trust but if you do not trust him, that does not change anything.
Person #2 you know and have known for a while. If he is trustworthy, you would rather pick him over #1.

Personally I would trust Karl over any OMM, yet he is 'only' a mod.
Why? Because I know him, I see him as a friend.

I don't see the problem here, OMM's are here to make trading safer. If anything I would like to see more of them, not make it harder for mods to get.

 

[Emperor Nero]

I can see where a bias can be created in a little staff vortex. It is going to take a normal member a lot more time to complete and then get accepted as an OMM because their staff counterparts are already known by the higher-ups... I do believe that sometimes there are staff that come in and are just kind of randomly added that I don't think have really earned the ability to be called 'trusted'.

Edit- My opinion is that all processes involving the staff applying for something a normal can also apply for that there should be no bias.

 

[Lillie_Services]

I agree with a couple of the thoughts that were stated.

A well known middleman, like TBT, wouldn't get the rank of OMM, even if he's by far more trusted than a moderator, and a random moderator, that decides to go back in the middleman's business, would get OMM within a month or two.

That's simply a general opinion, some of our OMMs worked crazy hard before having it but some other would never be close to being an OMM without their moderator rank.



I believe this would be a good solution to the problem:

Solution 1: Staff members should have a different OMM application to complete.

 

[iBuyStoof]

Cosrob, your OMM application was empty until you got staff aha, don't gimme that shit, TBT deserves OMM 10x as much as Superman or you.

Hah..

Firstly, Don't assume stuff, its not always a straight yes or no poll.

I wasn't I was assuming a straight yes/yes poll.

Also, to answer the question of who I would trust more it's surely the staff member, yet that doesn't mean any staff member should have the advantage of getting OMM 100x faster than myself even if they have the same number of vouches.

If a staff member with 0 vouches and myself went for OMM at the same time(I have like 60 vouches or something) Ican 100% guarentee they would achieve it first. Are they more trusted? no...

I bet you if someone had the administrator rank they could complete all of their trades for OMM in less time than TBT spent on the layout of his OMM application..



Sorry for the very messy replies.. trying to give feedback for every post before 100 more pour in.

 

[cosrob97]

Cosrob, your OMM application was empty until you got staff aha, don't gimme that shit, TBT deserves OMM 10x as much as Superman or you.





I wasn't I was assuming a straight yes/yes poll.

Ermm...

http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=869185
http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=967164

And for my 3rd application I already had 5 trades completed before I was even close to becoming a mod. And to get the last 5 MMs it took me over 2months, even though I was a mod. So I don't know where you get your statistics from.

 

[iBuyStoof]

Ermm...

http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=869185
http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=967164

And for my 3rd application I already had 5 trades completed before I was even close to becoming a mod. And to get the last 5 MMs it took me over 2months, even though I was a mod. So I don't know where you get your statistics from.

Truthfully, I think your situation is the perfect example... you got denied twice WHEN YOU WEREN'T MOD, then you got mod and your app gets accepted? k...

 

[tMoon]

Truthfully, I think your situation is the perfect example... you got denied twice WHEN YOU WEREN'T MOD, then you got mod and your app gets accepted? k...

Or perhaps they had a good reason for denying him? I got OMM in what, 2 months and I've never been a staff member.


If someone's denied it's for a good reason.

Regarding a different application for staff, why? Staff are regular users who help out the community and do mod logs. They are trusted enough to be staff and therefor find trades easier.

Shouldn't be OMMs? Do you honestly think all staff does is lock threads? They're people, not robots.

What unfair advantage? From what I've seen, a large part of the biased Sythe has been expelled from this site.

Or my attitude changed >_>. Anybody around at the time can see the difference.

This^

Edit: One last thing, no one deserves anything.

 

[cosrob97]

Truthfully, I think your situation is the perfect example... you got denied twice WHEN YOU WEREN'T MOD, then you got mod and your app gets accepted? k...

Or my attitude changed >_>. Anybody around at the time can see the difference.

 

[Imagine]

Cosrob, your OMM application was empty until you got staff aha, don't gimme that shit, TBT deserves OMM 10x as much as Superman or you.





I wasn't I was assuming a straight yes/yes poll.

Also, to answer the question of who I would trust more it's surely the staff member, yet that doesn't mean any staff member should have the advantage of getting OMM 100x faster than myself even if they have the same number of vouches.

If a staff member with 0 vouches and myself went for OMM at the same time(I have like 60 vouches or something) Ican 100% guarentee they would achieve it first. Are they more trusted? no...

I bet you if someone had the administrator rank they could complete all of their trades for OMM in less time than TBT spent on the layout of his OMM application..



Sorry for the very messy replies.. trying to give feedback for every post before 100 more pour in.

If they are a global+, in fact, with -500 vouches, they would still be more trusted. Globals, for example, have the power to change users passwords, so if they really wanted to scam, they'd just hack somebody like Viou or R2Pleasent, and just use their account.

Being a staff member in itself has an impact on trust. Being a staff member means the administrators trust you, and it means that you have responsibilities that you must comply with.

I'm not saying TBT does not deserve OMM, he does, but Cosrob has gone through three full applications, so he definitely deserves OMM, and Superman imo is one of the most community-oriented users, so he deserves OMM too.
I'm not denying that being on staff helped them, as Cosrob said, it definitely did. However, it is still possible to complete the OMM app as a normal user, and OMM is given based on trust, and since staff members are trusted by the people who promote them, they are obviously trusted by the people who vote for them for OMM (The same people).

 

[The Black Tux]

However, it is still possible to complete the OMM app as a normal user

Sure, we can just use Snow Patrol as example.

and OMM is given based on trust

I consider myself more trusted than some staff... and I'm more active than some OMMs. Many other points to be considered, but yeah.

So no, that's no true.

and since staff members are trusted by the people who promote them, they are obviously trusted by the people who vote for them for OMM (The same people).

That's the point of the thread. It's unfair.

 

[No Rage Quiting]

staff are regular people too, same application should remain for them

if you are highly-trusted you should not have to worry about the high risk trades.

if they fufilled it ad it was accepted good for them. they desrve it

 

[Emperor Nero]

I have to agree with Tmoe; no one deserves anything, but I do think that if TBT were staff he would have been OMM ages ago.

 

[Brendan]

Truthfully, I think your situation is the perfect example... you got denied twice WHEN YOU WEREN'T MOD, then you got mod and your app gets accepted? k...

Speaking as someone who was around when Cosrob completed his first two OMM applications, and being a friend of him, his personality has changed immensely since his first couple of applications. Back then, he was a bit of a troll and was no-where near as mature as he once was. He was still incredibly trustworthy and helpful, but liked I said, lacked some maturity. He's now gained that maturity, so he was promoted, and now he's an OMM.

(Sorry if me talking about you in 3rd Person is making you uncomfortable Cosrob <3)

 

[Imagine]

.
I consider myself more trusted than some staff... and I'm more active than some OMMs. Many other points to be considered, but yeah.

So no, that's no true.



That's the point of the thread. It's unfair.

There are definitely many other points, but trust is one of the major reasons. Besides, every OMM who has been denied, I'm sure they have been denied for a reason, not just "because we don't like him".


I'm not saying it's not unfair, but again, do you suggest that staff be required to resign while they apply for OMM? It's just a part of their account, and it's taken into account just like vouches, and activity are.