[DENIED] Require a value/format to be put towards every vouch.

[gambling_babz]

Hello staff, my suggestion today is to "Require a value to be put towards every vouch." I believe that this would be a very good follow-up statement that was originally quoted by @Sin666 . . .

It would be changed from:

to:
When trading, we require users to post the value that was dealt with per said trade. In addition to that, we encourage users to keep in mind that it doesn't matter how many vouches a user has, but rather, who those vouches are from and what they were for.

I think this because,
1) Many users do free services that do not carry any value. While they are very good to get started in the community and prove yourself by putting time into the forums and proving your efficiency, there is no monetary value backed by these vouches. A newcomer may simply be fooled that "5 vouches" implies there is a level of trust in OSRS GP or $$ that comes with it.
2) It makes organization of each vouch thread useful. It will allow the person buying a service/gp/misc. to view how much the user has been trusted with in the past; it will be very clear and easy to view for the person purchasing.
3) This is a rule for MM's (to keep track of value in the trade and to post it accordingly) so why would it be bad for simple vouch threads? Simply put, I believe that the organization of vouches should be fixed up somehow.

Thank you for reading this and have a good day.

P.s. In addition to what I said, I think users should be encouraged to use a format when giving vouches. Thoughts on that?

 

[Pain]

This would significantly stint new market users from being able to gain a foothold in the market, a lot of people will do free services or other offerings to build reputation, sometimes this is used for scamming but a lot of the time its legitimate people trying to build a starter reputation up.

I don't support this, I think this a market barrier to new users entering which is never a good thing right now.

To make it a requirement to include $ values in vouches would only dissuade new market users from doing free/small services and those make up the backbone of sythe, whenever you want to start pricking at that backbone of the forum it better be for a lot better reason than what currently is being suggested.

 

[gambling_babz]

This would significantly stint new market users from being able to gain a foothold in the market, a lot of people will do free services or other offerings to build reputation, sometimes this is used for scamming but a lot of the time its legitimate people trying to build a starter reputation up.

I don't support this, I think this a market barrier to new users entering which is never a good thing right now.

To make it a requirement to include $ values in vouches would only dissuade new market users from doing free/small services and those make up the backbone of sythe, whenever you want to start pricking at that backbone of the forum it better be for a lot better reason than what currently is being suggested.

While I agree with you as it is the backbone of our forums and does give users an opportunity to step a foot in the door, the amount of times that

users will do free services with an abundance of free services with un-valued vouches ----> scam gp

outweighs

users will do an abundance of free services with un-valued vouches ----> being legitimate.

I'm not saying that by implying there are no legitimate people that had once offered free services, I'm talking about the ones that constantly come back and scam clueless consumers, get banned, and evade.

For example, to test, I've trusted multiple users on an account that I'm building for personal use to do quests/skills on it for free. One of those users is banned (scammed 750k from me but many M's from others), and the rest are being trusted with 1-1.5m. That 1-1.5m is a good base support for newcomers in the market to be trusted with more.


When I post the vouches I usually include the value and appreciate when users do as I'm still a beginner in the market and it may prove my authenticity because faking "bank trusts" are just as easy to make and don't really carry an value - but a newcomer won't see that and assume 5 vouches = x value of trust.

(disregard run-on sentence ^ , lol)

 

No support,
I'm sitting there telling all my customers to go back and edit there vouch to include the value of the trade, generally is a waste of my good time and I won't do it even if this suggestion passes. I trade with many new members to market and when they normally wright 10/10 trade smooth transaction or whatever.

 

[Daddy Dropperz]

Full support, along with requiring vouches to put who went first and whatnot as those who are attempting to scam can just use vouches from gold sites as proof of being trusted traders despite the fact there was no trust on their end. There is several flaws to the vouch system we currently use, and this is the step in the right direction in order to fix some of these issues.

 

[gambling_babz]

No support,
I'm sitting there telling all my customers to go back and edit there vouch to include the value of the trade, generally is a waste of my good time and I won't do it even if this suggestion passes. I trade with many new members to market and when they normally wright 10/10 trade smooth transaction or whatever.

Then if that's the case there should be a scroll-down that REQUIRES the consumer to click on how much was valued in the trade.

Full support, along with requiring vouches to put who went first and whatnot as those who are attempting to scam can just use vouches from gold sites as proof of being trusted traders despite the fact there was no trust on their end. There is several flaws to the vouch system we currently use, and this is the step in the right direction in order to fix some of these issues.

Thank you -- it doesn't necessarily have to be my suggestion. I should have been more strong-worded that overall the vouch system needs to be a little bit more organized/professional per person.

 

[Eazy E]

No Support

Users shouldn't have to tell sythe how much money they are bringing in.

Scenario 1:

I am new to making websites. I offer a very very very low fee to a personal friend on sythe to get my foot in the door. He leaves vouch that says "$20 for website build, TYVM 10/10", then other users will see that I charged low and use that against me to get a lower price. if I say that this was because I needed vouches, then I may lose business. Also, like @Divine stated, some users will offer free services to get their foot in the door. No users will see he offered services to other users for free and may feel like they are being treated differently and will find another user.

Scenario 2:

User's search through vouches to see who is brining in a lot of money. They target said user for hacking since they are obviously bringing in the most funds.

Scenario 3:

User paid another user $3000 to develop an awesome program or piece of software. Why on earth should that user have to give his cost of operations to a 3rd party site who doesn't deal with escrow (because it legally can't).



​

I can go on and on about different scenarios but there is just no point. This is a free market and the idea that you should be forced to tell how much you pay for an item is wrong and is just a another way to micromanage the market.


There is no reasonable reason to do this. The only time I see this useful is when user 1 sells an item to user 2 and user 2 leaves a vouch for 5% of the actual price. In this instance, a report can be made.


Why should I even have to vouch for someone in the first place?

Sorry but this isn't needed.

 

[gambling_babz]

Scenario 1:

I am new to making websites. I offer a very very very low fee to a personal friend on sythe to get my foot in the door. He leaves vouch that says "$20 for website build, TYVM 10/10", then other users will see that I charged low and use that against me to get a lower price. if I say that this was because I needed vouches, then I may lose business. Also, like @Divine stated, some users will offer free services to get their foot in the door. No users will see he offered services to other users for free and may feel like they are being treated differently and will find another user.

​

Then maybe there should be an option to keep it private if the transaction is over a certain price. And going back to what divine said, see what I mentioned:

Spoiler

While I agree with you as it is the backbone of our forums and does give users an opportunity to step a foot in the door, the amount of times that

users will do free services with an abundance of free services with un-valued vouches ----> scam gp

outweighs

users will do an abundance of free services with un-valued vouches ----> being legitimate.

I'm not saying that by implying there are no legitimate people that had once offered free services, I'm talking about the ones that constantly come back and scam clueless consumers, get banned, and evade.

For example, to test, I've trusted multiple users on an account that I'm building for personal use to do quests/skills on it for free. One of those users is banned (scammed 750k from me but many M's from others), and the rest are being trusted with 1-1.5m. That 1-1.5m is a good base support for newcomers in the market to be trusted with more.


When I post the vouches I usually include the value and appreciate when users do as I'm still a beginner in the market and it may prove my authenticity because faking "bank trusts" are just as easy to make and don't really carry an value - but a newcomer won't see that and assume 5 vouches = x value of trust.

(disregard run-on sentence ^ , lol)

Scenario 2:

User's search through vouches to see who is brining in a lot of money. They target said user for hacking since they are obviously bringing in the most funds.

I think it's pretty easy to tell regardless which users are bringing in the most money, lol. Hackers don't go out of their way to think, "Hmm, who has the most money that I can hack today?" Having a safe computer in 2018 is super easy.

Scenario 3:

User paid another user $3000 to develop an awesome program or piece of software. Why on earth should that user have to give his cost of operations to a 3rd party site who doesn't deal with escrow (because it legally can't).

Then you're right, we should have the right to keep it private if it is over a certain transaction.

​

I can go on and on about different scenarios but there is just no point. This is a free market and the idea that you should be forced to tell how much you pay for an item is wrong and is just a another way to micromanage the market.


There is no reasonable reason to do this. The only time I see this useful is when user 1 sells an item to user 2 and user 2 leaves a vouch for 5% of the actual price. In this instance, a report can be made.


Why should I even have to vouch for someone in the first place?

Sorry but this isn't needed.

 

[Teeto]

-1 should remain optional. Hard to enforce, people don’t vouch because they’re lazy. People could lie about the value etc. If you want to track how much you want, by all means go for it, but t shouldn’t be required.

 

Hello staff @gambling_babz suggestions are more for the community and moved to staffing if supported, JS. And this suggestion wouldn't work. A free service offered by a newcomer as stated by @Divine would then be worthless. You can't value a free service as it is that FREE. I mean anyone could say hey usually it costs x y or z, but who is to say the person doing the service won't charge less than the average and their vouches are worth $10 bucks instead of 20 if an example were 2 services at $10 average vs 2 at $5.. if there was a basis maybe this could be a thing, but for now leave things as they are, no support.

 

[gambling_babz]

Hello staff @gambling_babz suggestions are more for the community and moved to staffing if supported, JS. And this suggestion wouldn't work. A free service offered by a newcomer as stated by @Divine would then be worthless. You can't value a free service as it is that FREE. I mean anyone could say hey usually it costs x y or z, but who is to say the person doing the service won't charge less than the average and their vouches are worth $10 bucks instead of 20 if an example were 2 services at $10 average vs 2 at $5.. if there was a basis maybe this could be a thing, but for now leave things as they are, no support.

I understand, I just strongly dislike the lack of quality in vouches.

 

I understand, I just strongly dislike the lack of quality in vouches.

Oh trust me I agree, some of my vouches even look like ass "Traded @Bryan fast and easy." Looks like shit imo but I will still take it, I take screenshots of my trades so I know the value if I ever needed to, I can't say everyone does so who knows.

 

Suggestions like these are so far gone in realism due to how long the current system has been running. When you venture into mandating obligations into an already functioning system, you need to make sure the change has a minimal effect. This change is bigger than it seems. I say leave it as it is. Any trader who practices safe trading will examine each vouch and its value. Typically, legit vouches do include an estimate of the trade value.

 

[SellingRspsStuff]

A good example of someone who is organised, who has done the hard work for you on his own vouch page: BiPollaire's vouches <3

On that note, another flaw would be anyone in the rental business could only take the vouch valued at the price of the rental. As we all know, sometimes people are trusted with mass amounts of $$ on these rentals but still will only charge $4'ish.

 

[skullomon]

Actually a really good idea and maybe have a total vouch in where the stickers people have so you know howmuch in total a user has been dealt with

 

[gambling_babz]

A good example of someone who is organised, who has done the hard work for you on his own vouch page: BiPollaire's vouches <3

On that note, another flaw would be anyone in the rental business could only take the vouch valued at the price of the rental. As we all know, sometimes people are trusted with mass amounts of $$ on these rentals but still will only charge $4'ish.

Yup, bump; looking for staff input

 

[Eazy E]

A ( now banned ) user above stated that it would be cool to see a sticker with the vouch prices, which would be cool, but it would just lead to more issues.

My final thoughts on this is that:

1. Should NOT be required
2. Would be cool, but shouldn't be required
3. Hurts new comers / free service providers / and the security of user information (how much they are making on site, to whom, and for what). Some users don't like this. I for one would not like my past prices displayed, as charging user #1 x and then charging user #2 3.5x and then that user #2 notices I charged user #1 less, may get offended. Other users may see my vouches and think im "too expensive" and then move on to someone else.

I like the discussion that this brought

 

[gambling_babz]

A ( now banned ) user above stated that it would be cool to see a sticker with the vouch prices, which would be cool, but it would just lead to more issues.

My final thoughts on this is that:

1. Should NOT be required
2. Would be cool, but shouldn't be required
3. Hurts new comers / free service providers / and the security of user information (how much they are making on site, to whom, and for what). Some users don't like this. I for one would not like my past prices displayed, as charging user #1 x and then charging user #2 3.5x and then that user #2 notices I charged user #1 less, may get offended. Other users may see my vouches and think im "too expensive" and then move on to someone else.

I like the discussion that this brought

I see where you're going with #3, never thought that through until you gave me a full example...hmm.

 

[WooWoo]

If this were ever to be implemented as a requirement then what is stopping fake vouches for large values? This makes fake vouches even riskier and most newcomers probably (don't/don't know how) to fact check the validity of the vouch. implementing this would also cause a whole load of unnecessary problems.

 

[gambling_babz]

If this were ever to be implemented as a requirement then what is stopping fake vouches for large values? This makes fake vouches even riskier and most newcomers probably (don't/don't know how) to fact check the validity of the vouch. implementing this would also cause a whole load of unnecessary problems.

A whole load of unnecessary problems like what?