[Denied]Ironman Service Refund Ruling

Also potentially risking the thousands of dollars spent progressing the account via services.

By outsource Hollow meant something that was not made by himself.

Anyone getting services always risks everything since they can be banned for having someone other than the original owner playing on his account...

 

[gold4rsps]

By outsource Hollow meant something that was not made by himself.

Anyone getting services always risks everything since they can be banned for having someone other than the original owner playing on his account...

So, Dario's point of the service provider carrying all the risks associated is irrelevant.

 

[_Hollow_]

So the point is that if you have this super rare ironman almost maxed 69b bank with a super duper rare rsn included as the final touch in a cake of pure runescape addiction in the veins and decide to take outsource service you can get banned and part of the responsability is yours because you decided to not do those 5 levels of runecrafting in your account without knowing the consequences.

 

[_Hollow_]

The TOS protects the buyer in case of worker scamming etc etc , in cases of bans give refunds etc etc is even hard to account service servers all this.
Even i know this is confusing as hell.

 

The TOS protects the buyer in case of worker scamming etc etc , in cases of bans give refunds etc etc is even hard to account service servers all this.
Even i know this is confusing as hell.

Not to mention the self-scams to extort service providers.

 

[gold4rsps]

So the point is that if you have this super rare ironman almost maxed 69b bank with a super duper rare rsn included as the final touch in a cake of pure runescape addiction in the veins and decide to take outsource service you can get banned and part of the responsability is yours because you decided to not do those 5 levels of runecrafting in your account without knowing the consequences.

Well if your banned for account services, that's on the customer, not the service provider? I'm failing to see how all this is relevant in regards to my rule change. Just like Dario just said - self scams. This has nothing to do with my suggestion. All of that would have been sorted out prior to this rule even being introduced in the report. Finding a solution to self scam is a completely different topic - in some other threads I saw some good measures for this.

 

[_Hollow_]

Sythe can’t change the TOS of servers.
Sythe is for advertisement of services and report scammers that affect users and are involved in Sythe.

 

Well if your banned for account services, that's on the customer, not the service provider? I'm failing to see how all this is relevant in regards to my rule change. Just like Dario just said - self scams. This has nothing to do with my suggestion. All of that would have been sorted out prior to this rule even being introduced in the report. Finding a solution to self scam is a completely different topic - in some other threads I saw some good measures for this.

How will you identify if it's a scam done by workers or not? If:

Ok, so we on PvM Services match worker deposits with the same value as clients bank values. For example, we got a worker that has 4b deposit and then that ironman where he was working on gets yoinked for 4b bank.

 

I'm curious.

 

[gold4rsps]

Sythe can’t change the TOS of servers.
Sythe is for advertisement of services and report scammers that affect users and are involved in Sythe.

Then put that in the TOS of your discord? You know it's a hazard so find a solution to combat it. There was a comment I read on a different thread where the change password link was sent directly to the worker and he changes the password to whatever he likes, which is then changed back by the customer after the order is complete.

The rule I'm suggesting to change is Sythe rule, not a server rule. It's up to the server if they want to make themselves safer in the case of a self scam.

How will you identify if it's a scam done by workers or not? If:

The above can help provide a security measure regarding self scams. Regardless, this would be irrelevant in the case of this suggestion as this rule WILL COME INTO ACCOUNT AFTER THE FINAL VERDICT IS ANNOUNCED BY A STAFF MEMBER.

 

[_Hollow_]

Ok I’m tired. Want to go with your suggestions? Let’s go with them. I will go like Gordon Ramsay when he must to say how bad a food is in master chef.

1) This suggestion is very bad , imagine that the account service A gives a quote of all items scammed by a drunk worker or whatever and is 1500m. Okay all good. Then comes the problem the server provided will be choosen by staff or customer because customer can go around all servers choose the one which value more expensive the items and add that quote to the Server Provider A which could be a clear advantage to the customer he can choose like going to a supermarket and choose which one is better. On the other hand if staff chooses whatever he chooses he will be critized by the community because if he chooses one lower , the buyer and the people will say “YoU arE GiVIng prEfERence to thE SeRvER”. And if they add an expensive one the account servers will say : “ Hey WhAT thE HeLL yOU dOiNG YOU GUys gIvE PrEFErence tO CuStomer”. Etc Etc bla bla bla bla bla bla. If you suggest a community price where everyone wants to agree in one price then we are fucked because then 3rd World War will begin in that discussion to decide prices.
Okay let’s go with option 2:
2) Okay si you are saying that the provider could give a similar account as the one scammed? You are getting in bad water sir because I don’t think all providers have an account like that because all accounts are different. Also you seriously think that someone will give an ironman account like that FREE? God dammit we don’t live in My little pony universe my friend because the scammed person have now 2 ironmans he could recover the items and have 2 super unique accounts and later sell those accounts and win a crazy profit? The money gained could be mayor than the one scammed and that of course will be very unfair and ofc again will start the 3rd World War because people could just drop their ironman items and procceds to make a report , get a super dope account , recover the items in the other account and later on get crazy cash? Of course I think you have that in mind in your suggestion , right?

Conclusion:
Dude , ironmans are weird topic if you choose to have someone to do training in your account and scams quit you will not get that account , also your responsible to have chosen to do it ofc the provider is guilt too but you know everyone have the fault. So in conclusion (again) if you choose to do services you have a chance to get coconut nutz and lose everything and never recover that progress.
Have a nice day I think I cover all holes if I not I might counter your argument or something so have fun , I guess

 

[gold4rsps]

Ok I’m tired. Want to go with your suggestions? Let’s go with them. I will go like Gordon Ramsay when he must to say how bad a food is in master chef.

1) This suggestion is very bad , imagine that the account service A gives a quote of all items scammed by a drunk worker or whatever and is 1500m. Okay all good. Then comes the problem the server provided will be choosen by staff or customer because customer can go around all servers choose the one which value more expensive the items and add that quote to the Server Provider A which could be a clear advantage to the customer he can choose like going to a supermarket and choose which one is better. On the other hand if staff chooses whatever he chooses he will be critized by the community because if he chooses one lower , the buyer and the people will say “YoU arE GiVIng prEfERence to thE SeRvER”. And if they add an expensive one the account servers will say : “ Hey WhAT thE HeLL yOU dOiNG YOU GUys gIvE PrEFErence tO CuStomer”. Etc Etc bla bla bla bla bla bla. If you suggest a community price where everyone wants to agree in one price then we are fucked because then 3rd World War will begin in that discussion to decide prices.

This is not an issue if we uses the original service provider's prices.

2) Okay si you are saying that the provider could give a similar account as the one scammed? You are getting in bad water sir because I don’t think all providers have an account like that because all accounts are different. Also you seriously think that someone will give an ironman account like that FREE? God dammit we don’t live in My little pony universe my friend because the scammed person have now 2 ironmans he could recover the items and have 2 super unique accounts and later sell those accounts and win a crazy profit? The money gained could be mayor than the one scammed and that of course will be very unfair and ofc again will start the 3rd World War because people could just drop their ironman items and procceds to make a report , get a super dope account , recover the items in the other account and later on get crazy cash? Of course I think you have that in mind in your suggestion , right?

The account would have to be mutually agreed between both parties. Of course the idea of recovering the account is still there, which would result in less people choosing this option. We could get rid of this option too if you like, I don't mind.

Conclusion:
Dude , ironmans are weird topic if you choose to have someone to do training in your account and scams quit you will not get that account , also your responsible to have chosen to do it ofc the provider is guilt too but you know everyone have the fault. So in conclusion (again) if you choose to do services you have a chance to get coconut nutz and lose everything and never recover that progress.
Have a nice day I think I cover all holes if I not I might counter your argument or something so have fun , I guess

Everything you say here has nothing to do with the suggestion. The suggestion has two option - new account or a quote on items lost. You addressed both of these and your concerns, which I'm glad you did because we can clarify that. However, this point just explains the risks involved in using services, which doesn't have anything to do with this specific ruling. The suggestion is in regards to a refund of an ironman account that has been cleaned by a rogue worker, which has been confirmed by a member of staff that this is the case.

 

[_Hollow_]

Hello I saw your response is fine we can delete option 2 is pretty bad.
Let’s go again and check that first option.

This is not an issue if we uses the original service provider's prices.

Yeah sure but you are contradicting you said use the original quote of first server and mix it with the second one. Go with the original prices is useless because as you said before runescape market is “volatile” and not all prices are shown to the customer besides you still not answering which party will choose the second provider the victim or the staff.

 

[gold4rsps]

Yeah sure but you are contradicting you said use the original quote of first server and mix it with the second one.

So basically, what I meant by "mixing it in" is lets say service A worker scammed a customer. That service offers skilling services only and no PVM services. In this case, it would have to be "mixed in".

Go with the original prices is useless because as you said before runescape market is “volatile” and not all prices

Service prices are usually the same all time round, excluding discounts?

besides you still not answering which party will choose the second provider the victim or the staff.

The victim would move onto a different service provider of their choice after being paid. This is what any normal person would do if their ironman got hacked as I doubt they'd rebuild it themselves, unless they quit entirely.

 

[_Hollow_]

So basically, what I meant by "mixing it in" is lets say service A worker scammed a customer. That service offers skilling services only and no PVM services. In this case, it would have to be "mixed in".

Why someone would continue in a service where they got scammed? Is 0% sense. Besides you contradict again with another point.

Service prices are usually the same all time round, excluding discounts?

Agree that all have similar prices still some servers can give it cheaper.

The victim would move onto a different service provider of their choice after being paid. This is what any normal person would do if their ironman got hacked as I doubt they'd rebuild it themselves, unless they quit entirely.

Yeah agree here mayory of people just move on grind it themself , other provider or leave.

 

[gold4rsps]

Why someone would continue in a service where they got scammed? Is 0% sense. Besides you contradict again with another point.

What? This doesn't mean that? I'm saying in this case you'd have to go into another service discord to get the quote on say 1200 demonic gorilla kills for 4 zenytes.

Agree that all have similar prices still some servers can give it cheaper.

Like I said before, initially use original service provider where possible. From then onwards you could find the cheapest provider for the other quotes, with proof. That is also fine.

 

[_Hollow_]

Honestly first option could be possible as long staff discuss it , revise it and modify it , still would take a lot of time to be implemented and hard to be obey by people.

 

i read and support eveyrthing said in this thread

thanks for your time

 

Let’s just stop being stupid and thinking an Ironman is worth anything. Right @sinkovsky

 

How can you lose a pet? Just pay 500k and you can reclaim for 1m anytime.

I would never accept an account from someone who cleaned my bank.