Ironman Service Refund Ruling

[PvM Services Niki]

I personally do not think that there will ever be a good ruling, because the value of an account is different for everyone else. Also, even though Exx didnt even touch the account he has to pay 5.4b and make up for the shit someone else (and you can not even confirm who it exactly is) did. Is that fair? He did not want that to happen at all and if he knew that he would be the first one to decline doing the job.
I understand both perspectives and just want to add that value is different for everyone. Personally i think paying x4 of the gold value is somewhat argueable and if two parties can not come to an agreement than a third party will have to decide and that most likely does not favour both parties.
Spencer can on the other hand also be happy that it was Mafioso and Exx because i do believe that a lot of other (smaller) services could not even afford to pay that. And let's not even talk about the amount that he would have had to pay according to your judgement. Ask yourself how many other providers would have taken the ban and save themselves paying 5b (or in your case 20b).
Anyways, if you have a valueable ironman, that you could not live without, assume something like this can happen at any time and do not order services or agree to something where both parties are statisfied incase anything happens.

The final decision is decent, but far from perfect and you can never decide perfectly, and spencer got something instead of nothing like in the first ruling.

 

[gold4rsps]

I personally do not think that there will ever be a good ruling, because the value of an account is different for everyone else.

Yes, this is true but using a direct quote to gain items back in the form of a service is much more accurate than just x4'ing the bank value. It's just logical that they would be paid this way, as Sythe said.

Also, even though Exx didnt even touch the account he has to pay 5.4b and make up for the shit someone else (and you can not even confirm who it exactly is) did. Is that fair? He did not want that to happen at all and if he knew that he would be the first one to decline doing the job.

I get what you mean but majority of the stuff he said arose suspicions and in the end, the verdict was against him. A lot of people also believed he was liable as seen by the like ratio on the comments on that thread (they just show support on both of the parties but Spencer gained more support). Regardless, this is what I believe needs to happen in the future. With a new ruling like this, he can think properly if he wants to take the job or not.

And let's not even talk about the amount that he would have had to pay according to your judgement. Ask yourself how many other providers would have taken the ban and save themselves paying 5b (or in your case 20b).

Well if they do that, they can go ahead and get banned. They chose to take the job knowing the risks involved. Rebuilding a cleaned ironman account that your worker cleaned is just the normal thing to do. For many people who do go through this situation and end up rebuilding the account, the costs are indeed high but they go through it.

The final decision is decent, but far from perfect and you can never decide perfectly, and spencer got something instead of nothing like in the first ruling.

Like I said before, using the service provider's quote on what has been lost is by far more accurate than just slapping a multiplier on the bank value of the ironman.


Most end game ironmen that purchase services have most likely already spent over 5k$ on services. You have to think about what they lose too.

 

[PvM Services Niki]

You can just buy a better account at that point and enjoy a holiday in the maledives instead of paying 10k.
Also the time that it takes to rebuild some iron accounts that are even more valueable is almost forever. If spencer had to wait for the rebuild,there is a good chance he would quit the game by the time it is done. Also, not saying it would happen, but who decides how fast does the rebuild has to happen? You could stall forever and no one could say anything, as its happening just not fast. Is that a better solution for you then? You can not set a date as its a RNG game and what would happen if the time limit passes?
Again, i understand spencer's and the other people's losses, but forcing someone to get it back to the previous state is probably even worse than just taking the 2 grand.
On the account market that account would not even be close to a value of 5b and good luck selling your account without any reputation. Why would you not take the account market value and then pay about 1.5b? (no idea what the actual price would be - just guessing a number that could be true) This would actually be a better solution, for Mafioso and spencer as A. it would be cheaper for Mafioso and B. Spencer would have his account back instantly, if the account seller is not recovering.

Let me try to do it by an example: If you would destroy the Mona Lisa, it is gone forever and no money or substitute would be able to replace the painting. You just accept it is gone and move on by getting a compensation by the insurance company.

 

[gold4rsps]

You can just buy a better account at that point and enjoy a holiday in the maledives instead of paying 10k.

That's another option, can also pay with a new account that is at a similar stage.

Also the time that it takes to rebuild some iron accounts that are even more valueable is almost forever. If spencer had to wait for the rebuild,there is a good chance he would quit the game by the time it is done. Also, not saying it would happen, but who decides how fast does the rebuild has to happen? You could stall forever and no one could say anything, as its happening just not fast. Is that a better solution for you then? You can not set a date as its a RNG game and what would happen if the time limit passes?

This would have to be mutually agreed by both parties. Is he fine with waiting for x months minimum? (spencer was fine with it) Would he prefer cash/07 GP because he doesn't trust that provider anymore? Would he prefer an account with similar stage in progress?

 

I'm going to be closing this thread as it's going in circles, if you have a good suggestion @gold4rsps make a thread here - Suggestions . Though think about the following -
1. On sythe we attempt to rule primarily on chat logs, TOS agreements and any other valid proof that either side provides.
2. Getting a quote for every item lost on an account could / would be very time consuming.
3. What if the customer had a pet they had lost? Are we going to charge 400k per kill for 1/500,000 odds ?
4. What if the customer had previously went through that same server to obtain that item and only paid for 10 kills? In the instance of your demonic gorilla idea, if I bought a zenyte shard and Exx got it within 10kills which would be 4mil, then Exx could counter argue and mention that he got it within 10 kills, so that only 4mil should be refunded.
5. It's also extremely hard to say who stole what, as others have mentioned on this thread customers have faked their accounts being hijacked, scammed and whatnot in attempts to get more money.
6. If you are able to come up with an amazing suggestion, who is to say that a customer and worker won't come together to befriend the server owner in attempt to get a huge refund when a specific TOS that dictates a refund comes into place if the bank is cleaned during service? This already happens on a lower level when lower tier wor, I couldn't imagine what would happen if a specific rule came into place.
7. At the end of the day anyone can adjust and create a tos that caters to what they desire, while also having a MM holding funds if they don't trust one another.