[DENIED]Banned Users Back Into Community

[Rico Bronson]

Hey so rather than have someone who has be banned for scamming, repay and come back, donate a large amount and change their name and still have their vouches etc they should be made to keep the same name so any past report can be looked up by the buyers or sellers so they know who they are dealing with?
You are evidently giving them a fresh start to Sythe with a new name but same rep before the scam/ban

 

You are evidently giving them a fresh start to Sythe

The whole point of the pardon process IS to give them a fresh start. If staff deem the user not trustworthy enough to join the community again, they would simply vote no on their pardon. Albeit, some users still end up scamming after getting pardoned - that is unfortunately out of our control.

People can also look at previous name changes on this thread should they wish to do their own research on the user they're trading with: List of Username Changes

 

[Rico Bronson]

The whole point of the pardon process IS to give them a fresh start. If staff deem the user not trustworthy enough to join the community again, they would simply vote no on their pardon. Albeit, some users still end up scamming after getting pardoned - that is unfortunately out of our control.

People can also look at previous name changes on this thread should they wish to do their own research on the user they're trading with: List of Username Changes

Yes a fresh start, not giving them a new name and identity to fuel a scam. would be far easier to pull up records from a search on the users actual name? just looks like from the birds eye view that we are giving them a new identity after pulling some sort of scam on their name and they get a new name? left in a better position than most sythe users who are legitimate to then pull another scam? why do we have to go and search their name when they are the user who has been let back into the community after their actions surely, that's like letting a paedophile back into a child friendly neighbourhood and giving him a camera and telling him hey here's your new name and people will only know your a paedophile if they look you up mate?

 

would be far easier to pull up records from a search on the users actual name?

Far easier as in one less click on List of Username Changes to check their previous name?

Keep in mind, we often deny name changes on recently pardoned users. Surely a pardoned user that has stayed away from trouble for months and years should be allowed a name change eventually?

that's like letting a paedophile back into a child friendly neighbourhood and giving him a camera and telling him hey here's your new name and people will only know your a paedophile if they look you up mate?

This is a poor example as someone with a much more serious offense would not be pardoned in the first place.

No support from me.

 

This is already pretty well monitored by staff. If you’ve been pardoned, staff has decided that you have paid your debts, and are allowed a second chance. Name changes can be denied, and even if they are approved, it’s very easy to check previous name and corresponding scam reports.

Let me give you a better analogy than that pedophile scenario. Let’s say a burglar gets arrested and serves 5 years in prison, gets released on parole and is eventually allowed back into society free of supervision. The only way to know this person is an ex-con is by looking into them, doing a little research.


Staff can ban, DNT, TWC until they determine the user is no longer a threat to the community. At that point, yes they are essentially given a clean slate. I think they’ve earned it. No support

 

[Rico Bronson]

This is already pretty well monitored by staff. If you’ve been pardoned, staff has decided that you have paid your debts, and are allowed a second chance. Name changes can be denied, and even if they are approved, it’s very easy to check previous name and corresponding scam reports.

Let me give you a better analogy than that pedophile scenario. Let’s say a burglar gets arrested and serves 5 years in prison, gets released on parole and is eventually allowed back into society free of supervision. The only way to know this person is an ex-con is by looking into them, doing a little research.


Staff can ban, DNT, TWC until they determine the user is no longer a threat to the community. At that point, yes they are essentially given a clean slate. I think they’ve earned it. No support

You think someone who has scammed someone else and has only decided to pay back people because they want to use Sythe again / want to scam again who has fucked someone over maybe to pay some bills or pay for rent somewhere to live, has earned it? and should be allowed back in just because they "Paid back" people, I don't really see any effort to stop someone from name changing, donating then scamming again under a new name its a risk for no reason?
If they really want to get back into Sythe then it wouldn't matter to them about having the same name, as long as you have something to show since then, showing good trading practices and rebuilding your rep back <---(showing effort) you don't deserve to get a new slate clean, maybe after a probation period has passed but these people should be monitored accordingly as they have potential to pull big scams.

 

You think someone who has scammed someone else and has only decided to pay back people because they want to use Sythe again / want to scam again who has fucked someone over maybe to pay some bills or pay for rent somewhere to live, has earned it? and should be allowed back in just because they "Paid back" people, I don't really see any effort to stop someone from name changing, donating then scamming again under a new name its a risk for no reason?
If they really want to get back into Sythe then it wouldn't matter to them about having the same name, as long as you have something to show since then, showing good trading practices and rebuilding your rep back <---(showing effort) you don't deserve to get a new slate clean, maybe after a probation period has passed but these people should be monitored accordingly as they have potential to pull big scams.

You’re assuming a lot about the intentions of the person requesting a name change.

You’re also assuming a lot about the pardon process. A user is not generally pardoned without showing that they deserve it - this goes beyond just paying back debts. I mentioned before that staff are pretty good at monitoring this. Maybe allowing a previously banned user back on the site with a DNT, then maybe a TWC until they are able to prove they are reformed. Name changes can be denied on a similar basis.

Theses situations can be (and are) judged on a case-by-case basis. The severity of the offense, reconciliation, actions since the ban, etc are all taken into account when making the decision.

 

Sadly the current pardon system serves as a "clean slate" as Gen said, however stupid that is, so I don't see this being implemented. I would support this however if the pardon system didn't mean a clean slate, but sadly that's not the case.

 

Well i personaly woud also remove their vouches once they pardon because they gained them scammed [lost that reputation] then pardoned.

But to your case i would add limit like after 2 years of your successfully pardon you can do major name change or somthing like that.

 

This would never be done, we can try to limit them all we want, but then there would just be no pardons if its done. Instead i would suggest something similar to twc that stays for a year+ which u can click and see the scam report

 

Something similar has been suggested before [DENIED] User history
And I agree with what Pendulum said about it:
" A pardon is a clean slate. We want to encourage users to right their wrongs and one of the main incentives is to have your account fully restored back to its original state. Any limitations, marks or loss of privilege would discourage users. It is already rare enough for a user to repay their victim.

We already have a 'user history' to an extent, your pardon is public and all your previous offenses are kept public in the site archive. We encourage all users to do their own research on anyone they are looking to trade with. "

So sorry, no support

 

[Rico Bronson]

This would never be done, we can try to limit them all we want, but then there would just be no pardons if its done. Instead i would suggest something similar to twc that stays for a year+ which u can click and see the scam report

There would be for the real people who want to come back and be apart of the community, no reason for the scammers to come back after waiting out lets say a 1 year probation to then be allowed to ask for a name change? would it not be the easier option?

 

[Rico Bronson]

Something similar has been suggested before [DENIED] User history
And I agree with what Pendulum said about it:
" A pardon is a clean slate. We want to encourage users to right their wrongs and one of the main incentives is to have your account fully restored back to its original state. Any limitations, marks or loss of privilege would discourage users. It is already rare enough for a user to repay their victim.

We already have a 'user history' to an extent, your pardon is public and all your previous offenses are kept public in the site archive. We encourage all users to do their own research on anyone they are looking to trade with. "

So sorry, no support

Why would just giving them a 1 year probation name change discourage if your intent is to rebuild your rep and be apart of sythe?

 

Why would just giving them a 1 year probation name change discourage if your intent is to rebuild your rep and be apart of sythe?

In my eyes, the pardon system is quite good. It is not easy to get back in the community. People have to repay their debts to be considered getting pardoned. I think doing this will discourage some people from pardoning and so also not repaying debts.

 

[Rico Bronson]

In my eyes, the pardon system is quite good. It is not easy to get back in the community. People have to repay their debts to be considered getting pardoned. I think doing this will discourage some people from pardoning and so also not repaying debts.

They are high risk members and need to be dealt with as such to a degree however small, people are acting like repaying someone their dues is enough and turned into as if they are the victim. You are rejoining Sythe to be part of the community or market, you have scammed in the past and precautions should be taken when reintroducing them back into the community, a name change shouldn't be discouragement to someone who wants to be in the market trading legitimately or long term.

 

They are high risk members and need to be dealt with as such to a degree however small, people are acting like repaying someone their dues is enough and turned into as if they are the victim. You are rejoining Sythe to be part of the community or market, you have scammed in the past and precautions should be taken when reintroducing them back into the community, a name change shouldn't be discouragement to someone who wants to be in the market trading legitimately or long term.

These people have been successfully pardoned. It's not just repaying your debts. There are plenty of people that have repaid their debts but did not get pardoned. You are entitled to your opinion, but I just disagree with it.

I think your intention is good, but I disagree with implementing this.

 

[Superfluous]

Is this even an issue? I can't think of a single case of this ever happening and being problematic

 

To me , scamming is scamming.
Do it once, you’ll be proned to do it again. Not saying people always do scam again, but I do feel like the internet is a place of hiding & people don’t always act the same here.
so, once they scam , kick them out & leave them out. Ban the IP & let them execute business else where.

 

[Tyler]

Your under the assumption that people who scam will always be a risk, this is not true. Hell most of our staff team and omms have had to pardon for things in the past and learned from it - myself included.


If staff believe somebody is still a risk to the community, thia will reflect in their votes on a pardon request (a current example of this is DuckM)

 

No support. The point of pardoning is to give a someone a chance to change their act and do business legitimately. Would rather see someone change than never give them the chance too.