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Communism..Good or bad?

jaamal said:
Money is the not the only way to motivate people. Also as a student you will also be getting paid, so it can balance out. The want to help people would be good enough to motivate most doctors.

There's still a tremendous amount of work involved.

If people are guaranteed a good lifestyle, no matter what career they choose, you will have very few people choose difficult careers. People are, in general, lazy and selfish, and not terribly altruistic towards their peers. Sure, you'll have a few well-meaning people who want to be lawyers, doctors, researchers, or doctors, but you will not have enough people to generate a complete workforce.

jaamal said:
A dictator can help motivate people to work hard and force people to stay motivated. And you can have both a dictator and a Communist government.

You cannot have a government in a Communist society. By definition, Communism is leader-free.

Also, can the dictator motivate all people, for decades to come? I think not.

jaamal said:
Same in Every other country, you can find unbiased information in science journals, news reports, and research more to come to your own conclusion.

Yet in North Korea, you find information that has been severely twisted. That's it. There are no alternative sources.
 
If people are guaranteed a good lifestyle, no matter what career they choose, you will have very few people choose difficult careers. People are, in general, lazy and selfish, and not terribly altruistic towards their peers. Sure, you'll have a few well-meaning people who want to be lawyers, doctors, researchers, or doctors, but you will not have enough people to generate a complete workforce.

When you were a child what did you dream for? Most likely as a child your dreamed of holding a position of power, becoming president, a doctor, lawyer... With-out anything holding these dreams back such as school fees, tuiton, rent, and the need to feed yourself it make life simplier for people to accomplish these dreams, it balances out in difficulty.

Also most jobs that are difficult are not as tough as a toll on your body. Would you rather be a researcher and get to work behind a desk for the rest of your life learnging, or become a trashman and have to labor until you die?

You cannot have a government in a Communist society. By definition, Communism is leader-free.

Wikipedia defintion-Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production.

Webster defintion-1 a: a theory advocating elimination of private property b: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2capitalized a: a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics b: a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c: a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d: communist systems collectively

None of these defintions say there can not be a leader, it just says classless. Meaning nobody should be wealthier then anyone else.


Also, can the dictator motivate all people, for decades to come? I think not.

Yes, a dictator can motivate people for ages to come, it depends on how the person chooses to motivate his audience.

Yet in North Korea, you find information that has been severely twisted. That's it. There are no alternative sources.

There is always an alternative source, it can be from the internet, Another person, or anything.
 
You do realize that the majority of people that are homeless in major cities are only that way because they made some bad choices and brought it upon themselves. After that they are too lazy and/or too stupid to escape this new lifestyle.
ex: Homeless people buying cigarettes/alcohol when they do get a little money.

Ok, so you are saying that because someone grew up in a major city that they brought it upon themselves if they are poor/homeless? like what shredder said, they might of been born into poverty.

Okay, great. Feel free to spend years on years at law school, tens of thousands of dollars on tuition and such, and once you get that all paid off and are making tons of money every years for the hours you spent working in high school, college, law school, and at the office you can split your eventual six digit salary with me, who chose a career as a janitor. I sat on my ass, got drunk in high school and flunked out, and make next to nothing, but according to your opinion I'm entitiled to half of the fruits of your labor? If you're serious I'd be willing to bet you're the Janitor in the scenario. If you like the idea of communism so much, donate part of what you earn to welfare/unemployment. They're essentially the same thing.

are you saying every janitor didnt work hard in school? because i know a student that got some tuitions for high school, but he chose to be a janitor instead. he is a 3.4gpa student. not all janitors are lazy people.


edit/

and actually, i donate money about 4 times a year to a local homeless shelter, i donate my time to help there lives. all im saying is that if we donated some, we could help some get there lives back on tract. Yes there are some who just keep on skating by in life, living off of the free stuff, but there are some who are able to turn there lives around.
 
Hmm...I'd say bad. There is a very interesting book about this. It's a theory of how the world would be in global communism. Great book.. It's called "A Brave New World".
 
hmm, ill have to see if my local library has it, and get back to ya on it :)
 
Hmm...I'd say bad. There is a very interesting book about this. It's a theory of how the world would be in global communism. Great book.. It's called "A Brave New World".


Shedder posted that link to the book in a previous abortion thread I believe I read it and still feel the same way... I am not saying that communism is the best government, but it is certianly not the worst and in someways better then a lot of governments today.



I found the link to it, if anyone is curious.
http://www.hedweb.com/huxley/bnw/two.html
 
on paper it is a great idea! everyone has equal amounts, that way no poverty. no class system. but once again, thats my opinion.
 
jaamal said:
When you were a child what did you dream for? Most likely as a child your dreamed of holding a position of power, becoming president, a doctor, lawyer... With-out anything holding these dreams back such as school fees, tuiton, rent, and the need to feed yourself it make life simplier for people to accomplish these dreams, it balances out in difficulty.

You're right. Then, reality intervened.

jaamal said:
Also most jobs that are difficult are not as tough as a toll on your body. Would you rather be a researcher and get to work behind a desk for the rest of your life learnging, or become a trashman and have to labor until you die?

Researcher.

jaamal said:
None of these defintions say there can not be a leader, it just says classless. Meaning nobody should be wealthier then anyone else.

First, I don't see how it's anybody else's business how much wealth I have. I'm not obligated to help out those in need.

Second, Marxist Communism must not have a leader. Power corrupts, etc.


jaamal said:
Yes, a dictator can motivate people for ages to come, it depends on how the person chooses to motivate his audience.

History suggests otherwise.

jaamal said:
There is always an alternative source, it can be from the internet, Another person, or anything.

Go read 1984.
 
You're right. Then, reality intervened.

Excatly these things could not be obtained. Why, Mostly needs of money and power. With no power struggle and students being paid to attend school, there are fewer boundaries to what one can accomplish.

Researcher..

So not wanting endure manual labor your entire life is enough motivation to go to school correct?

First, I don't see how it's anybody else's business how much wealth I have. I'm not obligated to help out those in need.

No your not obligated to help, but the ability to do so isn't causing you any pain so why not.

Second, Marxist Communism must not have a leader. Power corrupts, etc.

Anything can corrupt someone, just whether or not the person in power lets it change their perception of things. Other things can corrupt people or change there views. (Peer pressure, greed, hunger etc. All of which would be eliminated by a good communist government)


History suggests otherwise.

The person is a dictator, he doesn't have to be liked. The dictator only has to keep people motivated and there is many of ways to do it.
 
jaamal said:
Excatly these things could not be obtained. Why, Mostly needs of money and power. With no power struggle and students being paid to attend school, there are fewer boundaries to what one can accomplish.

If Communism worked, then that is true.

jaamal said:
So not wanting endure manual labor your entire life is enough motivation to go to school correct?

It is, indeed.

jaamal said:
No your not obligated to help, but the ability to do so isn't causing you any pain so why not.

I have earned my place in life. I have worked hard for every single bit of wealth that I possess. It is mine, and as such, I have a right to use it exactly as I wish. To give part of it away to the less fortunate means that I cannot enjoy that wealth.

jaamal said:
Anything can corrupt someone, just whether or not the person in power lets it change their perception of things. Other things can corrupt people or change there views. (Peer pressure, greed, hunger etc. All of which would be eliminated by a good communist government)

Greed, the tendency to bow to peer pressure, and hunger are things that are irrevocably built into our systems. The new government would have to give us a ridiculous amount of social conditioning at birth, just like in Brave New World.

jaamal said:
The person is a dictator, he doesn't have to be liked. The dictator only has to keep people motivated and there is many of ways to do it.

No, my point was that dictators can control information. The Chinese government only allows access to Chinese government-approved websites, as well as an alternative Google, Yahoo, etc. It's pretty much a separate infrastructure.
 
No, my point was that dictators can control information. The Chinese government only allows access to Chinese government-approved websites, as well as an alternative Google, Yahoo, etc. It's pretty much a separate infrastructure.


Yeah, dictators and communism only allow you to do some things.
 
We all saw how Communism in Russia worked out, Like someone said once . It looks good on paper but in affect its disastrous.
 
Lets think of something more to say than it looks good on paper.. give an explanation why, please.

this thread is not going to attain my desires.
 
communism only works on paper.

why would some1 go 2 uni and work there *** off when they get the same wage as a street sweeper.
 
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Now onto the question, do you think that communism is a great idea?
If not, then why not?

Communism totally ignores the fact that humans are individuals with individual talents. It simply assumes that everything that constitutes a human is due to their environment. And hence when their environment is improved they too should improve.

So the first fallacy of communism is that humans are equal. When, in reality, humans are unique and unique things cannot be equal.

Secondly communism attributes inequality between people and groups to capitalism, and the free market system, without providing any real basis for their claim.

Capitalism is strictly the best thing that ever happened to man kind. The freedom to invest your time, energy and wealth in projects you believe will succeed is the most fundamental ingredient to any sort of net societal progress. This has been proven throughout history and is obvious and logical if looked at objectively.

So the second fallacy of communism is that capitalism is to blame for most everything that is wrong in the world. Quite the contrary, it is to praise for most everything that is good in the world. Such as computers, automobiles, the internet and medical science.

Thirdly, communism assumes that all work is the same sort of work, or can be treated as the same sort of work, or can be payed by the same wage scale. When in fact, what one person considers to be hard work, another may consider to be slacking off. Such as the opinion blue collar workers have toward management staff.

Thus the third fallacy of communism is that all work is equal.

Finally the largest fallacy in the ideology of communism is to exclude the entrepreneurial class and the natural cycle of wealth propagation within capitalist free society.

There are two basic types of people in society. Those who create wealth and those who consume wealth. Wealth creators are the most important class in any society, because without wealth the society is nothing.

The innovative entrepreneur sees what is, and what could be. He invests his time and resources into turning his unique and fresh ideas into physical reality. He then designs (or pays someone to design) a production system whereby many objects of relatively small value come together to create something of much greater value.

This is wealth creation.

For example: a piece of farm land in a drought stricken country may be virtually worthless. The farmer sees no value in it. But the entrepreneur comes along and puts a theme park on it. And suddenly the land is of great value. All the individual parts of the theme park and all the labor involved in constructing it are still less than the net sum worth of the theme park company after 10 years of operation. This is an example of real wealth creation.

So the entrepreneurs are the wealth creators. But who are the wealth consumers? Government and organized crime.

Government taxes people, companies and legal entities. Taxation is used to fund the public sector. Taxation is a zero net sum game. The government does not create wealth, it simply moves it around, and ultimately consumes it.

This final point is the most clear cut explanation of why communism always leads to poverty. As you grow the public sector, taxation increases. As taxation increases wealth creation decreases. (Because why would you bother building a theme park if you didn't get to keep the profits?) As wealth creation decreases the overall wealth that exists in the country decreases too. Until the government has no money, the people have no money, and everyone goes hungry. Soviet Russia.

In short: government and organized crime (often the same thing under different names) is to blame for most of the trouble in the world NOT capitalism. Capitalism is freedom. Communism and any form of Statism is a disguised form of Surfdom.
 
In my opinion communism is good. From what i've seen of the capitalistic ways USA practices, anything is better really. Fucking imperialistic pigs.
 
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In my opinion communism is good. From what i've seen of the capitalistic ways USA practices, anything is better really. Fucking imperialistic pigs.

This is so typical. Public education promotes left leaning or 'progressive' schools of thought.

Let me make this perfectly clear. The problem is not your liberty. The problem is your government. You correct that problem by making the government SMALLER not larger.

Your government are the imperialists. They run the US empire, not you.
 
This is so typical. Public education promotes left leaning or 'progressive' schools of thought.

Let me make this perfectly clear. The problem is not your liberty. The problem is your government. You correct that problem by making the government SMALLER not larger.

Your government are the imperialists. They run the US empire, not you.

To do with the education, Whats the point when you can be a cleaner and get paid the same as a doctor.
 
This is so typical. Public education promotes left leaning or 'progressive' schools of thought.

Let me make this perfectly clear. The problem is not your liberty. The problem is your government. You correct that problem by making the government SMALLER not larger.

Your government are the imperialists. They run the US empire, not you.

This has NOTHING to do with my education. In fact, most schools here promote Right-wing ideas. I've researched socialism/communism/capitalism and since i'm a paganist, capitalism is definately NOT the way to go. Way to kill the earth. If i could decide, we would be back in small villages without electricity, industrys or money.
 
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