Communism..Good or bad?

[TJ]

Ok so this is a thread about communism.

basic definition off of Wikipedia :

Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production.[citation needed] It is usually considered a branch of the broader socialist movement that draws on the various political and intellectual movements that trace their origins back to the work of Karl Marx.[citation needed] Opponents say that communism is an ideology, whereas promoters say that it is the only political system without ideology, because it is the consequence of historical materialism and the revolution of the proletariat.[citation needed

So out of all this, there would be no wealth class, no class's at all. everyone would be equal in an economic sense. taxes would be equal, etc. Im all for communism, because it would be a good thing to do if it works out like it says it should.

Now, on paper it sounds like a great idea! But once it is put into effect, it is not such a good idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism is where i got the above definition.

Now onto the question, do you think that communism is a great idea?
If not, then why not?

 

[Magingzulu]

Commusim the IDEA is a good idea, but put in effect is bad, the world has only seen communism at its FULL glory with U.S.S.R. and that was a massive mistake.
For Communism to work you need a leader that cares about equality, and must be pure hearted, no side deals, and must please all the people.
DO U SERIOUSLY THINK THERE IS ONE PERSON IN THE WORLD LIKE THAT??
Answer: No, so i agree with u

Now, on paper it sounds like a great idea! But once it is put into effect, it is not such a good idea.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Commusim the IDEA is a good idea, but put in effect is bad, the world has only seen communism at its FULL glory with U.S.S.R. and that was a massive mistake.
For Communism to work you need a leader that cares about equality, and must be pure hearted, no side deals, and must please all the people.
DO U SERIOUSLY THINK THERE IS ONE PERSON IN THE WORLD LIKE THAT??
Answer: No, so i agree with u

You're absolutely correct. The corrupt side of the human nature destroys the idea.

It also violates individual human freedoms. For example:

I carve a little wooden product. All of my neighbors want to buy it. They trade a little of their food (or any other desirable commodity) for it. Is that fundamentally wrong?

The product is extremely popular. More people want to buy it than I can keep up with. I tell my surrounding neighbors to carve these products for me, and I will give them a share of the profit. They carve them during their free time, and get a little money out of it. Without me, they would gain nothing. Is this fundamentally wrong?

And so on. That is essentially what capitalism is. Are we not free to do it? Does individual freedom not trump the betterment of all?

 

[TJ]

They carve them during their free time, and get a little money out of it. Without me, they would gain nothing. Is this fundamentally wrong? And so on. That is essentially what capitalism is. Are we not free to do it? Does individual freedom not trump the betterment of all?

that is whats wrong with the world today in my opinion. people are to caught up on there economic gains, that they dont stop to think of the people in the world that have less or nothing at all.

i would rather share my profits with someone, than have someone living on the streets because they cant get there life organized.

 

[Shredderbeam]

that is whats wrong with the world today in my opinion. people are to caught up on there economic gains, that they dont stop to think of the people in the world that have less or nothing at all.

If they have nothing at all, that isn't my fault. Why am I morally obliged to help them?

i would rather share my profits with someone, than have someone living on the streets because they cant get there life organized.

Then you can do that. Why should I be required to?

 

[Cruel__Machine]

i would rather share my profits with someone, than have someone living on the streets because they cant get there life organized.

Then share it, nobody is stopping you.
But frankly most people would rather take profit than give it. Communism is awful, both on paper and in effect. I am an advocate of freedom.

 

[Nullware]

they dont stop to think of the people in the world that have less or nothing at all.

You do realize that the majority of people that are homeless in major cities are only that way because they made some bad choices and brought it upon themselves. After that they are too lazy and/or too stupid to escape this new lifestyle.
ex: Homeless people buying cigarettes/alcohol when they do get a little money.

 

[Gnomey]

Ok so this is a thread about communism.

basic definition off of Wikipedia :

Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production.[citation needed] It is usually considered a branch of the broader socialist movement that draws on the various political and intellectual movements that trace their origins back to the work of Karl Marx.[citation needed] Opponents say that communism is an ideology, whereas promoters say that it is the only political system without ideology, because it is the consequence of historical materialism and the revolution of the proletariat.[citation needed

So out of all this, there would be no wealth class, no class's at all. everyone would be equal in an economic sense. taxes would be equal, etc. Im all for communism, because it would be a good thing to do if it works out like it says it should.

Now, on paper it sounds like a great idea! But once it is put into effect, it is not such a good idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism is where i got the above definition.

Now onto the question, do you think that communism is a great idea?
If not, then why not?

Wikipedia sucks. Only use small parts of it to help you phrase things a little better, not for "Citation Needed" statements. Communism is stupid. It's not my job to carry the slack of those around me. Survival of the fittest? If I get the same amount of money whether I work extra hard on my crops and get a huge harvest or if I "forget" to water them while sitting on my ass, I can tell you what my choice would be. If people do more work, they deserve a bigger reward, end of story.

that is whats wrong with the world today in my opinion. people are to caught up on there economic gains, that they dont stop to think of the people in the world that have less or nothing at all.

i would rather share my profits with someone, than have someone living on the streets because they cant get there life organized.

Okay, great. Feel free to spend years on years at law school, tens of thousands of dollars on tuition and such, and once you get that all paid off and are making tons of money every years for the hours you spent working in high school, college, law school, and at the office you can split your eventual six digit salary with me, who chose a career as a janitor. I sat on my ass, got drunk in high school and flunked out, and make next to nothing, but according to your opinion I'm entitiled to half of the fruits of your labor? If you're serious I'd be willing to bet you're the Janitor in the scenario. If you like the idea of communism so much, donate part of what you earn to welfare/unemployment. They're essentially the same thing.

 

[/\/\OO please.]

I think Gnomey summed it up nicely; Obviously we live in a society and we shouldnt think only about ourselves, but that does not mean that we should all give to those who were lazy, and went and became employees of low paychecks.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Wikipedia sucks. Only use small parts of it to help you phrase things a little better, not for "Citation Needed" statements. Communism is stupid. It's not my job to carry the slack of those around me. Survival of the fittest? If I get the same amount of money whether I work extra hard on my crops and get a huge harvest or if I "forget" to water them while sitting on my ass, I can tell you what my choice would be. If people do more work, they deserve a bigger reward, end of story.



Okay, great. Feel free to spend years on years at law school, tens of thousands of dollars on tuition and such, and once you get that all paid off and are making tons of money every years for the hours you spent working in high school, college, law school, and at the office you can split your eventual six digit salary with me, who chose a career as a janitor. I sat on my ass, got drunk in high school and flunked out, and make next to nothing, but according to your opinion I'm entitiled to half of the fruits of your labor? If you're serious I'd be willing to bet you're the Janitor in the scenario. If you like the idea of communism so much, donate part of what you earn to welfare/unemployment. They're essentially the same thing.

Out of curiosity, what do you think about those who never had an opportunity in the first place?

As William Blake penned:

"Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born,
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.

Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night."

There are those in Africa, and other such developing countries that are born into poverty, have no opportunities, and die young. What of them?

 

[Typhoon]

It works it done properly but there are flaws in all types of leadership. In a comunist state everyone would have the same things. Lets use a car. If everyone had to have a ford mondeo I personal dont like that car. Im a speed junkie I want something fast. But in a commy state that isnt possible.

 

[Ibrahim Al]

Well the people who say in theory communism works have given reasons why they believe it would work... so why do you think the theory of communism dosnt work?

And what about people who want to live in a house with no roof? how can you say they are wrong to live in such a house just because YOU think its a bad idea?
thats not communism , its not capitalism, if you say do as i say or you are a moron that make you a fascist.

There are smal groups all over the planet that have addopted communism ( in comunes ) and not one of them comunes have failed. Everybody is fed, watered and they are all happy. so not only does it work in theory it even works in practice.

~ Ibrahim al

 

[Shredderbeam]

Well the people who say in theory communism works have given reasons why they believe it would work... so why do you think the theory of communism dosnt work?

The darker side of human nature. People don't care about those that they don't know.

And what about people who want to live in a house with no roof? how can you say they are wrong to live in such a house just because YOU think its a bad idea?

Most of those people think it's a bad idea, too, you know. Living in a house with no roof generally signifies that you are poor, and cannot afford a better house. If they really want to live in it, then by all means, they can. However, I don't think any of them really do.

thats not communism , its not capitalism, if you say do as i say or you are a moron that make you a fascist.

No, Fascism is "for the state, by the state". It is, in its most basic form, prioritizing the state's needs above individual freedoms.

There are smal groups all over the planet that have addopted communism ( in comunes ) and not one of them comunes have failed. Everybody is fed, watered and they are all happy. so not only does it work in theory it even works in practice.

That's the point, though, it only works in small communities, where everybody knows each other. It would never work in New York City, Tokyo, or any other large city with a population of more than 10,000.

 

[jaamal]

The darker side of human nature. People don't care about those that they don't know.

I do, I care for all of humanity.

That's the point, though, it only works in small communities, where everybody knows each other. It would never work in New York City, Tokyo, or any other large city with a population of more than 10,000.

What about North Korea?

 

[Shredderbeam]

I do, I care for all of humanity.

You're in the minority.

What about North Korea?

It's Communism gone wrong, kind of like what happened with the Soviet Union. A true Communistic society doesn't have a leader, and the resources are shared by all.

 

[jaamal]

You're in the minority.

So, I still care for everyone, even the people I don't know. And me being a minority doesn't effect my judgement. I care for everyone.

It's Communism gone wrong, kind of like what happened with the Soviet Union. A true Communistic society doesn't have a leader, and the resources are shared by all.

It is still in a communist state and their soceity is runnnig fine.

 

[Shredderbeam]

And me being a minority doesn't effect my judgement. I care for everyone.

I didn't say that. If you're in the minority by caring for all people, then the majority don't care for all people, rendering Communism ineffective.

It is still in a communist state and their soceity is runnnig fine.

That's because it's a dictatorship, where questioning the leader is forbidden. The government also puts out massive amounts of propaganda, and there isn't really a fair source of ideas and information for the people.

 

[jaamal]

I didn't say that. If you're in the minority by caring for all people, then the majority don't care for all people, rendering Communism ineffective.

The majority of humans may have a corrupt side, but everyone also has a concience and show compassion for a lot of people that they have never met before. If advertised right people can be kept in line and made to believe that they are eliminating poverty.

That's because it's a dictatorship, where questioning the leader is forbidden. The government also puts out massive amounts of propaganda, and there isn't really a fair source of ideas and information for the people.

So, it is still in a communist state that works fine. And even in America, where can you really find a source of information that isn't bias? Our media is also filled with just as much propaganda.

 

[Shredderbeam]

The majority of humans may have a corrupt side, but everyone also has a concience and show compassion for a lot of people that they have never met before. If advertised right people can be kept in line and made to believe that they are eliminating poverty.

Yet for Communism to work, it needs the support of all of the people. Will a doctor who studied extremely hard for 10 years to become a diagnostician happily accept the same wages as a janitor, if they have the same need? Where is the incentive to work hard, and what keeps them working hard for years to come?

So, it is still in a communist state that works fine. And even in America, where can you really find a source of information that isn't bias? Our media is also filled with just as much propaganda.

It's not a Communist state. It's a dictatorship.

You can find unbiased information, in science journals, some news reports, etc. Also, if there is a bias, you can take the facts, research them, and form your own conclusion.

 

[jaamal]

Yet for Communism to work, it needs the support of all of the people. Will a doctor who studied extremely hard for 10 years to become a diagnostician happily accept the same wages as a janitor, if they have the same need? Where is the incentive to work hard, and what keeps them working hard for years to come?

Money is the not the only way to motivate people. Also as a student you will also be getting paid, so it can balance out. The want to help people would be good enough to motivate most doctors.

It's not a Communist state. It's a dictatorship.

A dictator can help motivate people to work hard and force people to stay motivated. And you can have both a dictator and a Communist government.

You can find unbiased information, in science journals, some news reports, etc. Also, if there is a bias, you can take the facts, research them, and form your own conclusion.

Same in Every other country, you can find unbiased information in science journals, news reports, and research more to come to your own conclusion.