[APPROVED]Remove the update about the vouching / bumping system

What? How is my logic flawed? If you’re going to refute what I’m saying, at least provide some sort of counter argument, rather than consistently refuting most people’s arguments maintaining the same sentiment that, only you are right


Botting is one component, similarly, autobumpers are one component. E.g, paid-bumpers equate to paying users to manually train said RS account(s).

Everything you’ve said thus far seems to be from a stance of pure emotion, rather than (at the very minimum) attempting to at least maintain some objectivity. I (nearly everyone on this forum can attest to it), regardless of whom I speak to, always attempt to remain objective in nature. This has nothing to do with you, or me, or targeting you.


Lastly, I don’t use autobumpers or paid-bumpers, so this has no direct impact on me at all, and does not affect me in the slightest. I’m looking at this objectively. You are deluded af.

@SellerMan Why would I argue with a brick wall?

I could state 100 facts about why you compared botting to OSRS when even what I do for clientele isn't fair for the original players who don't use bots or said services.

I could also state auto bumping paid or unpaid for the users purchasing / others isn't fair because those who choose to do it manually while not mass farming post count off dead threads for users who aren't even active.

You can say PC doesn't = trust,I never said it did.

Also the way sythe gold is introduced is fine but farming it by the 10k+ a month with a bot you might as well just make us all a link to spamclick for 10k a month to make it "fair".

Why would I argue with someone who emotionally quotes me with flawed logic and lack of reasoning outside "We've done it for so long it must be true and work" < when that's the most idiotic , irrational , incompetent response and expects me to defend against.

l oh l

I won't reply to you again.

YH

 

As @Liam , @RSGM Sales and others have kindly mentioned: the previous suggestion was open for months, it had a lot of interaction from the forum and a lot of people agreed with RSGM.

Now your suggestion has been up for a day and the only support it has is from a few gold sellers and yourself.
You also make it sound like it was purely mods and admins who made the decision instead of listening to the community which is completely false, as I just said the community was involved in approving this request.

You keep bringing up sythe traffic and how it will go drop big time now that this rule is in place:
As others have already said, sythe relies on it's SEO.
If you want to get sythe traffic up then do as many others have already adjusted and redirect them to your vouch thread, this makes your business grow and sythe traffic won't be dropped (*cough*).

I 100% support the pay for bump where you use sythe gold to get your threads up earlier, however it would need to be changed how you get sythe gold, for example: Don't get sythe gold for bumping service threads / gold threads (auto-bumpers) or just remove auto bumpers in a whole.

- no support for OP

 

[S]

I could state 100 facts about why you compared botting to OSRS when even what I do for clientele isn't fair for the original players who don't use bots or said services.

That was just an example i thought you could relate to, due to your line of work/business.

I could also state auto bumping paid or unpaid for the users purchasing / others isn't fair because those who choose to do it manually while not mass farming post count off dead threads for users who aren't even active.

Business advantages/edge over your competition, need not be fair. Unethical =/= not allowed. Not saying i agree/disagree, solely assessing from an unbiased perspective.

Why would I argue with someone who emotionally quotes me with flawed logic and lack of reasoning outside "We've done it for so long it must be true and work"

Autobumping/paid-bumpers have only taken off in the past year or so, maybe 2 (i could be wrong). So this statement is completely wrong.

Lastly, to clarify, my posts here pertain to the autobump/paid bumper discussion.

Anyway, you do you.

 

No support.

The topic was open for months. If you were not happy, you should have replied then.
I also made a similar topic last year and the majority of "the market" supported it, although at the time it wasn't passed. I suggested it for different reasons, but RSGM pointed out some other issues.

Source mentioned: [DENIED] Lets start using the Vouch forum properly and stop the bumping loophole?

1) "BIG MISTAKE THAT WILL KILL THE MARKET FOREVER"

No. It won't.

Again I guess that you don't read everything because you are more focused on reply on a thread in a market that you are not even part of anymore because your friend told you to do it.

Even though the thread was open for months I WASN'T AWARE as many other users here that are supporting my OP and Saying "No. it won't" is not a valid argument and it lacks evidence and substance, you have to admit that even if this doesn't kill the market it will affect it at some point and if you don't agree with that then you are a hypocrite.

 

2) "The old vouch system bring more users to the forum every day"

#32 - May 17, 2019 at 8:21 AM ->

"Yes but it doesn't matter where they post. If the vouch thread section was actually used instead, then the said new users would also be referred to sythe.org to sign up, plus be able to be introduced to all of the sections they may find desirable.

This being said, these posts are a clear loophole to the bumping system. Speaking generally "everybody" (of course not some newcomer dumb dumb) knows this. Traffic referrals do not have to come to sythe in the form of a thread bump disguised as a vouch.

As RSGM says in a previous post, it would be highly unlikely that sites would offer the $1/1m incentive for a vouch if it did not benefit their business through this practice.

Of course we can jump on the "free market" bandwagon when debating marketing ethics here, or we can also use words along the lines of "your jealous because big boy sites use this and you can't, blah blah blah", but that is besides the point. This suggestion was made by one of these so called "big boys", although he is humble enough to speak from the perspective as the mid-level business owner."

It looks like you are some sort of idealistic person because what you are describing it won't happen in the practice

I've already noticed that most of the biggest sellers here are not redirecting people to sythe anymore because there's no reason to do it NO MOTIVATION.

And the fact that was suggested by one of the "big boys" it clearly tells me that your opinion is compromised because RSGM is one of the users that got a benefit from it because for some reason he doesn't want to do that practice and his argument it's just jumping in the "moral bandwagon" and saying that is bad for some blah blah blah reasons.

 

3) "GOLD COMPANIES won't have any motivation to redirect their TRAFFIC to sythe.org which will decrease the traffic of the forum and will lead to its end."

I'm sorry I don't know you and do not want to offend you, so take this lightly.

But...

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? NO. NO. NO.

That is not how traffic is directed to sythe! If it was, then the site would be DEAD. Gold site owners send a MARGINAL amount of traffic to this site, and MOST of it was in the form of spammy vouches left by accounts that would never return. If they did, it was to vouch again, before eventually leaving an untouched junk account in the system with less than 10 posts and NO OTHER user engagement.

Sythe.org has great SEO, and is very well ranked authority site for LOTS of runescape related search terms. It is also ranked well in search terms for the surplus of other games it has discussion topics and market threads for.

Most of sythe's traffic is direct traffic or from search engine results. It is not comparable to a gold site.

For the most part Sythe provides gold site owners with traffic, NOT the other way around.

What a false statement you have here, time will prove that I'm right and Richards knows the truth, the forum gets traffic because from both things not only 1 and if we make a survey you will realize that I'm saying the truth.

On a side note relying on organic traffic ONLY is a bad practice and everyone that is smart enough knows it well and is why users like bogla/arcus spend all of their money on all kinds of advertisements and that is why they are the most successful companies around.

BTW I legit thought you were smarter than that, all of the big boys here WORK A LOT ON THEIR SEARCH ENGINE RESULTS every day and probably more than sythe so saying such thing is bullshit.

 

4) "DO NOT FORGET that sythe.org does not spend a single cent on advertising the forum"

It simply doesn't need to. It's an authority site for its niche, and no competitor is a threat at this moment in time.

There is no need for sythe.org to run an ad campaign for most search terms, as it's already on the first page or two of results.

Sure, paid ad campaigns would still do wonders for the site, especially by re-targeting people, but again, it's not necessary.

Sythe doesn't need a competitor to care about his traffic and also that is a false statement, sythe is not in the two first results.

AFTER 55 RESULTS I GET THE SYTHE LINK WHEN I TYPE OSRS GOLD:
Screenshot - 509dfb436a75155f2f86eef14251a86a - Gyazo

BEING PLAYERAUTIONS, GILDED, AND PROBABLY OTHERS THAT I DON'T KNOW OVER THIS FORUM

Again relying on organic TRAFFIC is a bad business practice and on a side note this forum had the perfect loophole in terms of redirect traffic from gold websites that they get from ads to this forum and again a small but important amount of users take a look on the forum and get to know other sellers and service providers but that is over forever.

 

No support, it's a free market and all people should have equal bump timing. If big markets want to have more traffic from Sythe they can always invest to Sythe banners

 

As @Liam , @RSGM Sales and others have kindly mentioned: the previous suggestion was open for months, it had a lot of interaction from the forum and a lot of people agreed with RSGM.

Now your suggestion has been up for a day and the only support it has is from a few gold sellers and yourself.
You also make it sound like it was purely mods and admins who made the decision instead of listening to the community which is completely false, as I just said the community was involved in approving this request.

You keep bringing up sythe traffic and how it will go drop big time now that this rule is in place:
As others have already said, sythe relies on it's SEO.
If you want to get sythe traffic up then do as many others have already adjusted and redirect them to your vouch thread, this makes your business grow and sythe traffic won't be dropped (*cough*).

I 100% support the pay for bump where you use sythe gold to get your threads up earlier, however it would need to be changed how you get sythe gold, for example: Don't get sythe gold for bumping service threads / gold threads (auto-bumpers) or just remove auto bumpers in a whole.

- no support for OP

TIME TO SEND THIS ARGUMENT TO THE CEMETERY

Yeah, the previous suggestion was open for months but none knew about it AS ME.

NO, it didn't have a lot of interaction in fact let me compare it right now for you.

HERE: [APPROVED] Rewarding buyers or sellers for vouching.

In the approved suggestions section you will see that IN 3 MONTHS we have these results:

POSITIVE FEEDBACK:

1) RSGM SALES
2) TIGERIS
3) LIAM
4) ASTRO
5) Grave
6) GPSwap
7) Meowth
8) MAX
9) Amei
10) BUILD
11) Cherub
12) harrylolxd
13) Dbuffed (Both opinions)
14) MOTS
15) DOJ (Banned btw)
16) StickTalk (SUPER BANNED FOR BEING TRASH)
17) BERT

NEGATIVE FEEDBACK:

1) DUNWORRY
2) SKRIZZLY
3) Dbuffed
4) FEAR
5) DunRee
6) JSand
7) ABM

HOW IS THIS A BIG SUPPORT OF THE COMMUNITY? SHUT UP MATE!

By the time my SUGGESTION IS NOT EVEN 48 HOURS AND WHAT ARE THE RESULTS?

POSITIVE FEEDBACK:

1 CRYPTOGOLD
2 PINGY
3 RUBEN EASON
4 DIEZE
5 MUMBLE
6 TORNADOSHARK
7 LAZIZ
8 LORENZO
9 SERVICE RS
10 MOOTRUCKS
11 IZAD
12 ZUZEL111

NEGATIVE FEEDBACK

1 YELLOW HAT
2 ARIABOT
3 runemetrix
4 LIAM
5 MOTS
6 rs phoenix

NO VOTE:
SELLERSMAN (I THINK)

SO I THINK THAT WE ARE WINNING, DON'T YOU THINK? I talk to you in 3 months.



Again as I told Liam big websites are not redirecting traffic to sythe anymore, there's no reason to do it anymore.

 

@CryptoGOLD

One of your points was that this rule will endorse scammers / ban evaders to come back and then have the same exposure to the market as other users, yet a few posts later you literally say that "THE TRUTHFULNESS OF A VOUCH DOES NOT MATTER, ASLONG AS USERS GET VOUCHES". So a scammer could rack up "biased" vouches pretty easily, let them be posted at own convenience to get more exposure faster and then scam whenever the wants. The new rule will actually make it harder for ban evaders to start again because there will always be some known sites on the first page and people will still flock to it regardless because they have a better name.

I'm not confusing a vouch with something else. I just know the difference between a vouch and a bump and they shouldn't be fused together, PERIOD. A vouch should be a vote of confidence from a user to another user AND THAT IS IT. Adding another bonus on top of that is not needed and is where all of this manipulation bullshit comes from with people trying so desperately to get them.

Again, the fact that you state the site will die is pure bullshit and you know it. Let me ask you, where will people go if not for Sythe? NOWHERE, there isn't a place to go. There is no other Runescape black market as big as Sythe so people are forced to go here anyway. Good word about Sythe has been spread for years, they have grown for years WITHOUT THIS INCENTIVE BULLCRAP. People started using this bullshit like what, a year and a half ago? How long has Sythe been the number 1 black market? Over 4 years easily? Now all of a sudden just because some sellers can't have an edge by getting bumps (yes bumps not vouches) the site will die out? Like bro are you really?

Ofcourse you're gonna make up that you started using Sythe because some guy paid you money to vouch, would be weird if you didn't. I found out about Sythe via friend who didn't ask for a vouch, but alright, MOST OF THE TRAFFIC COMES FROM INCENTIVE GIVEN VOUCHES, SO SYTHE WILL BURN AND DIE!!!

Like no offense but you literally said that whatever the vouch contains doesn't matter aslong as a vouch is given. So a negative vouch can be turned into a positive one because otherwise the user wouldn't receive his free 1M and that is completely ok...? I'm really done debating it to be fair. The more you say the more it makes me believe that this change is actually a good one. The only actual SOLID argument that i heard was from Zuzel, the rest is all fanboy theory baloney that is grabbed out of thin air with no solid reasoning behind it. The spammy look can be combated easily with other suggentions, i already named a few. Another is that vouches could be allowed on service threads however the thread wouldn't be bumped. The bumping could only be done by the OP. Bad idea? Well there's other ways to fix it too, more options if we would all put out minds together;

To close this off, i understand it though. If i had a service and the only way for me to get customers was to abuse a vouch system and this would now be closed off, i would be hella pissed too. You mentioned Arcus/Bogla, ok good. They indeed used this tactic. Funny how i don't hear them complaining about it. I haven't seen one negative remark from Arcus, Bogla, or a member of their staff. They have other forms of traffic so they don't care. One of your statements was that it shouldn't be easy to start a business? Well trust me, it wont. Big sites will still stay big regardless if this rule stays or not.

EDIT : Stop considering this a battle. Sythe mods don't make a decision on how many "i supports" a thread gets. They have a poll and a discussion about it, look at the pros and cons and that's it. Sythe staff decides, not the users. It's not the first suggestion to be approved where the majority of people were against it. I don't know where you got this bullshit from that Sythe users actually have a say in the rules?

 

No support

Pretty much what RSGM said is valid reason why i decided to say no support to this. Defo support to his solutions to all this ->

Obviously no support.

1. Sythe could implement a system where u can buy bumps with Sythe gold. Sythe gold could be bought from Sythe itself or from bond holders. Extra bumps bought with Sythe gold, limited to 2 of those bumps usable per day. These bumps would go ontop of the allowed number of bumps a user has each day. Sythe gold can also be earned by being active on the forums. What does that fix? Sythe gets either money or actual involvement from users trying to earn Sythe gold, bond holders will be happy, the new coming traffic will be happy.

2. An actual feedback rating system. There is even now still no clear insight on how much vouches a user actually has. Fix that by having an actual feedback system.

Yeah, the previous suggestion was open for months but none knew about it AS ME.

None knew abaut it yet 24 ppls voted on that suggestion =?=. If you didnt knew abaout it that just means you use this site only for your own benefit and dont care abaout sugestions which are posted in this sections on daily basis.

Finally, I think that the new bumping limit of 4 hours doesn't work at all because if you were concern about not being at the top of the forum for a few seconds then now you will be 50% less time at the top of the forum because everyone can BUMP faster than before. (Take in mind that you thread goes to page 2 within minutes with the old system and now will be way faster than ever)

That is absolutly not true lmao redo your math. That just means you will be on the top 6 times per day instead of 3 times per day which is actualy better as before dont you think so =?

 

No support

Pretty much what RSGM said is valid reason why i decided to say no support to this. Defo support to his solutions to all this ->






None knew abaut it yet 24 ppls voted on that suggestion =?=. If you didnt knew abaout it that just means you use this site only for your own benefit and dont care abaout sugestions which are posted in this sections on daily basis.



That is absolutly not true lmao redo your math. That just means you will be on the top 6 times per day instead of 3 times per day which is actualy better as before dont you think so =?

The amount of people that voted within 48 hours in this post proves that we were not aware of what was going on so you can't claim that "all of us" don't care about the forum that is a ridiculous statement (In my case my hands are full pretty much all day so can't interact with the forum on my daily basis). On the other hand, even though you might be right about the fact that you get to be in the top 6 times per day instead of 3 EVERYONE gets the same exposure as the sketchy users, newcomers, inactive users, and view whores.

And as Ruben said "How is it fair for a user that is actively trading and collecting vouches to have the same exposure as an inactive or new user" we worked hard to be here and now that is pointless (Nice communist forum) so I guess that is time to just put a bot to bump my threads and all good.

 

The amount of people that voted within 48 hours in this post proves that we were not aware of what was going on so you can't claim that "all of us" don't care about the forum that is a ridiculous statement (In my case my hands are full pretty much all day so can't interact with the forum on my daily basis). On the other hand, even though you might be right about the fact that you get to be in the top 6 times per day instead of 3 EVERYONE gets the same exposure as the sketchy users, newcomers, inactive users, and view whores.

And as Ruben said "How is it fair for a user that is actively trading and collecting vouches to have the same exposure as an inactive or new user" we worked hard to be here and now that is pointless (Nice communist forum) so I guess that is time to just put a bot to bump my threads and all good.

You had 3 months to reply to that thread and yet you are saying that my statment is ridicilous to say that you dont give 2 fucks abaout site. Are you srsly telling me that you didnt had in whole 3 months 5 mins time to check suggestion section =?

And yeah you are right that everyone get same exposure but doesnt mean they will get actual trades cus reputation,24/7 active ppls > newcomers,inactive traders.

And paid bumps woud fix all this.

 

The amount of people that voted within 48 hours in this post proves that we were not aware of what was going on so you can't claim that "all of us" don't care about the forum that is a ridiculous statement (In my case my hands are full pretty much all day so can't interact with the forum on my daily basis). On the other hand, even though you might be right about the fact that you get to be in the top 6 times per day instead of 3 EVERYONE gets the same exposure as the sketchy users, newcomers, inactive users, and view whores.

And as Ruben said "How is it fair for a user that is actively trading and collecting vouches to have the same exposure as an inactive or new user" we worked hard to be here and now that is pointless (Nice communist forum) so I guess that is time to just put a bot to bump my threads and all good.

I mean this is the most respectful way possible. 75% of the people who support your thread either pay customers to vouch to get more exposure, they save up their vouches and claim them whenever they want (sometimes even WEEKS LATER) so they can get back on the top spot. Both are practices that are a misuse of the vouch system and thus are now forbidden.

The amount of views or "supports" on a suggestion thread do not matter. Each suggestion gets looked at by the staff team individually and they are debated upon BY THE STAFF TEAM. Staff makes the decision, not the users. Whether the users like it or not, tough love i guess. Sythe staff wil not agree on a change just because over 75% of users say "support". It's not how suggestions work.

The only (so only 1) negative aspect that i see in this rule change is something that Zuzel mentioned first and that is the spammy look of things. That is also easily fixed by replacing text bumps with something else, which is possible.

 

You had 3 months to reply to that thread and yet you are saying that my statment is ridicilous to say that you dont give 2 fucks abaout site. Are you srsly telling me that you didnt had in whole 3 months 5 mins time to check suggestion section =?

And yeah you are right that everyone get same exposure but doesnt mean they will get actual trades cus reputation,24/7 active ppls > newcomers,inactive traders.

And paid bumps woud fix all this.

I didn't even know about this section to be honest but I was looking the reason why this update was implemented then I realized about this and yes I care a lot about this forum because this is my main income.

And no, reputation doesn't play the complete role here, people will get scammed out of nothing and you know it, they base their trust in ridiculous things as donor status or views on the thread.

THERE'S NO REASON FOR THE MODS TO NOT SELL THE BUMPS AND HAVE THE OLD SYSTEM SO THOSE THAT ARE NOT THAT BIG CAN BUY BUMPS.

 

No support, it's a free market and all people should have equal bump timing. If big markets want to have more traffic from Sythe they can always invest to Sythe banners

This isn't about bump timing , it's about allowing a vouch to be used as a bump. The new rules restricting users from doing that doesn't make it a free market.

 

This isn't about bump timing , it's about allowing a vouch to be used as a bump. The new rules restricting users from doing that doesn't make it a free market.

Yeah and that vouch bumping makes that big markets get bumps every 30mins or so, which isn't fair. There is vouch thread section, where all vouches should be placed in my opinion.

 

Yeah and that vouch bumping makes that big markets get bumps every 30mins or so, which isn't fair. There is vouch thread section, where all vouches should be placed in my opinion.

Then to combat that, sythe should sell bumps and all solved no need to fuck up their traffic in the process.

 

I didn't even know about this section to be honest but I was looking the reason why this update was implemented then I realized about this and yes I care a lot about this forum because this is my main income.

And no, reputation doesn't play the complete role here, people will get scammed out of nothing and you know it, they base their trust in ridiculous things as donor status or views on the thread.

THERE'S NO REASON FOR THE MODS TO NOT SELL THE BUMPS AND HAVE THE OLD SYSTEM SO THOSE THAT ARE NOT THAT BIG CAN BUY BUMPS.

Reputation doesnt play compete role =? that absulute dumbest thing i ever heard. so you are telling me that ppls will rather go first to newcomer who is on the top of list as bogla who is at the bottom of list =?

Not to mention what have donations / views on thread have to do with all of this. Donations will remain same as views on thread will remain same if this suggestion pass or not so what is your point huh =?

 

Reputation doesnt play compete role =? that absulute dumbest thing i ever heard. so you are telling me that ppls will rather go first to newcomer who is on the top of list as bogla who is at the bottom of list =?

Not to mention what have donations / views on thread have to do with all of this. Donations will remain same as views on thread will remain same if this suggestion pass or not so what is your point huh =?

Ok now explain to me with people gets scammed very single day by newcomers? that is because they are not familiarized with the forum at all because THEY ARE NEW CUSTOMERS.