[APPROVED]Remove the update about the vouching / bumping system

We are not discussing bots here, we are talking about leaving feedback in the selling/buying threads and how that benefits the traffic in the forum.

I clearly stated why I think the bump should stay the way it is and the way to fix the issue with it being "4 hours" compared to 12, and am following the threads topic.

do you bump yours with a bot??

YH

 

I clearly stated why I think the bump should stay the way it is and the way to fix the issue with it being "4 hours" compared to 12, and am following the threads topic.

do you bump yours with a bot??

YH

What about the issue that will kill the website? have you thought about that? And no I don't use bots to bump and I'm not here to discuss that.

 

What about the issue that will kill the website? have you thought about that? And no I don't use bots to bump and I'm not here to discuss that.

Lol not going to argue with you lad..

I stated my points and I'm done replying.

NO SUPPORT.

YH

 

Obviously no support.

- Sythe traffic related :
Sythe traffic wont feel a thing. Sythe's traffic is not based on incentive vouches, if it was the site would be dead a long time ago. It's based on the fact that it's the only active Runescape black market forum there is, it has the monopoly and thus people flock to it and don't leave. I'm not including black market forums that have botting services attached to them which in comparison to Sythe are alot smaller. People who claim Sythe traffic will die out, where's your proof that giving incentive to leaving a vouch will "IMPACT SYTHE SO MUCH TO A POINT IT WILL DIE OUT COMPLETELY"? There is none. If Sythe is so depending on traffic coming from incentive given vouches, how can you explain the HUNDREDS (yes hundreds) of accounts that have 1-3 postcount and no other activity at all? Meaning these people who received an incentive don't use the forum after they leave a vouch. Why would someone who got paid 1M to leave a vouch even check the forum he's leaving a vouch on? People just don't do that, you know what they do? They take their Runescape gold and go play the game. Actual players aren't that interested in being active in the Runescape black market. Last but not least, if vouches are collected on vouch threads then Sythe still gets THE SAME AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC. The only problem i can see ofcourse is that sellers wont bother collecting vouches anymore because they don't get an edge in the market anymore but then why collect vouches in the first place if all u want is the bump?

-Fairness related issues :
Few problems with previous vouch system.

Number 1 : the legitness of the vouch. Imagine this picture. You're a 16 year old who plays Runescape as a hobby, you don't have that much money to spend and everything you can do to get some extra money is well appreciated. Sound familiar? It should, i'm describing a lot of Runescape players, disregarding the age. Now, that Runescape player finds a website via google where he can spend a small portion of his money in exchange for ingame gold for his favorite game. He buys the gold and runs into some complication(s) with the website he purchased from. This could be anything from rude staff behaviour, his payment that got stuck, identity verification he's not willing to provide, slow delivery time, so on. Regardless, the trade happens and the customer receives his product, yet not fully satisfied. He receives a live chat shortcut that now ontop of his purchased goods, he can receive free gold by leaving a vouch. Keep in mind the customer needs to leave the vouch first before being given the 1M for free. This isn't some "ah i'll trust that u will leave a vouch so have some free gold first" kinda thing. Now if the customer will write a vouch, knowing that after he leaves a comment he will receive 1M for free. What will he write? Will he write : "Delivery time was so slow i would prefer to watch paint dry" or will he write : "Holy shit deff recommend, best site out there"? I think we can all agree it will be the second. Lets not forget, if a customer actually takes the time to write a vouch (when not planning on it originally) that means he must REALLY want that incentive.

Number 2 : Vouch collecting. Most sellers "collect" their vouches on their vouch page by quoting all their trades one by one. If a seller has PAGES UPON PAGES of vouches IN DIFFERENT SECTIONS, how hard would it be to sneaky peaky quote a couple of these vouches double? If all the vouches are kept on one thread it's way easier to keep a good, legit and clear overview of how the seller is performing.

Number 3 : Vouch "hoarding". How many traders trade with a person they know and then go with "Just vouch me later, ok bro?". Only to ask for that vouch at a specific given time of their own choosing when their thread has dropped from the first page. Easy right? But that's not how vouches should be used.

Final words :

1. Lets all be real here. No customer will spend time and scroll through pages on pages just to read some vouches. How many people do this? Not alot at all. I think we can all agree the Runescape active community is an impatient community and i think all sellers with a website will agree that even a delivery time of 10 minutes is mostly described as "SLOW AS FUCK". If a user can't wait a couple of minutes to receive his gold, he wont spend his time scrolling through forums. There is no proof that anyone actually reads vouches at all. They look at the number of vouches, but don't read them.
2. If big sellers want traffic they can do so by buying a banner and thus supporting the Sythe community with money which in return can be used to better the forum. I don't believe for a second people like Arcus will eat a loaf of bread less a week because of the rule change. He has banners and gets most of his traffic from these. He doesn't need more exposure than he already has. I see nothing wrong with everyone getting equal time at the top of the section pages.
3. All the sellers who used this incentive tactic and are pissed because "SYTHE TRAFFIC WILL DIE OUT". Are you really sad that Sythe traffic will die out? Or are u sad because (YOU THINK) you will lose customers because u can't low cost bump your thread to the top anymore? Atleast be honest about it and say it the way it is, Sythe traffic has nothing to do with it, you're just pissed because u lost your edge (you think). If you're so worried with Sythe traffic then give a customer an incentive to vouch on your vouch thread and Sythe still gets the traffic. Oh yeh, but that's not the issue right? I forgot.

Other solutions :
Giving incentive to vouching isn't the solution. There are better ways to go about this. For instance,

1. Sythe could implement a system where u can buy bumps with Sythe gold. Sythe gold could be bought from Sythe itself or from bond holders. Extra bumps bought with Sythe gold, limited to 2 of those bumps usable per day. These bumps would go ontop of the allowed number of bumps a user has each day. Sythe gold can also be earned by being active on the forums. What does that fix? Sythe gets either money or actual involvement from users trying to earn Sythe gold, bond holders will be happy, the new coming traffic will be happy.

2. An actual feedback rating system. There is even now still no clear insight on how much vouches a user actually has. Fix that by having an actual feedback system.

 

[S]

Didn't know that's how it worked over there with your section,

to be honest having clients bump threads for you and still use those comments in a vouch thread makes no sense to me.

I think the bump timer is gr8 at 4 hours if you remove the bots that are now spamming it ever 4 hours, I think you should have to manually bump your threads and the bots should be banned.

Think about competing with a robot all day who never misses a moment...
^ this has to be the most ironic thing ever though.

Competing with robots when the users are offline most the time or just leave there threads online + have you seen some of these guys offering auto bumpers and getting 100+ PC and 100+ sythe gold a day?

Kinda crazy when all their doing is botting.

YH

Autobumpers/paid-bumpers exist as there is evidently a demand for it, and thus the supply. The demand will continue to exist unless the structure of this forum changes, which is extremely unlikely, primarily due to the simple fact that exposure is gained via being consistently present on page 1 of whichever section.

Also, where is the irony?

"Competing with robots" is a completely redundant statement here. Everyone and anyone can bump their threads as often - just because other competitors may not be available 24/7, or may not want to invest in an autobumper/paid-bumper, why should those willing suffer? Why would any business not want to maximise their exposure?

Your statement about users being offline is also irrelevant, as it's been stated time and time again (and in the rules), that users/traders/companies need to be available/contactable when their threads are bumped. If you see this being abused, report it.

Also, what does PC and SG have to do with anything? PC is not a symbol of trust. If you have an issue with how SG is acquired, then that's a conversation you need to have with Matt/Sythe.

Imagine how unfair it must be for the RS player that does not pay/cannot afford RS services, to then have to compete with/train as fast those that can. Do you not see that this is simply a result of this forum evolving, alongside supply and demand.

 

Obviously no support.

- Sythe traffic related :
Sythe traffic wont feel a thing. Sythe's traffic is not based on incentive vouches, if it was the site would be dead a long time ago. It's based on the fact that it's the only active Runescape black market forum there is, it has the monopoly and thus people flock to it and don't leave. I'm not including black market forums that have botting services attached to them which in comparison to Sythe are ant piss. People who claim Sythe traffic will die out, where's your proof that giving incentive to leaving a vouch will "IMPACT SYTHE SO MUCH TO A POINT IT WILL DIE OUT COMPLETELY"? There is none. If Sythe is so depending on traffic coming from incentive given vouches, how can you explain the HUNDREDS (yes hundreds) of accounts that have 1-3 postcount and no other activity at all? Meaning these people who received an incentive don't use the forum after they leave a vouch. Why would someone who got paid 1M to leave a vouch even check the forum he's leaving a vouch on? People just don't do that, you know what they do? They take their Runescape gold and go play the game. Actual players aren't that interested in being active in the Runescape black market. Last but not least, if vouches are collected on vouch threads then Sythe still gets THE SAME AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC. The only problem i can see ofcourse is that sellers wont bother collecting vouches anymore because they don't get an edge in the market anymore but then why collect vouches in the first place if all u want is the bump?

-Fairness related issues :
Few problems with incentive given vouches.

Number 1 : the legitness of the vouch. Imagine this picture. You're a 16 year old who plays Runescape as a hobby, you don't have that much money to spend and everything you can do to get some extra money is well appreciated. Sound familiar? It should, i'm describing a lot of Runescape players, disregarding the age. Now, that Runescape player finds a website via google where he can spend a small portion of his money in exchange for ingame gold for his favorite game. He buys the gold and runs into some complication(s) with the website he purchased from. This could be anything from rude staff behaviour, his payment that got stuck, identity verification he's not willing to provide, slow delivery time, so on. Regardless, the trade happens and the customer receives his product, yet not fully satisfied. He receives a live chat shortcut that now ontop of his purchased goods, he can receive free gold by leaving a vouch. Keep in mind the customer needs to leave the vouch first before being given the 1M for free. This isn't some "ah i'll trust that u will leave a vouch so have some free gold first" kinda thing. Now if the customer will write a vouch, knowing that after he leaves a comment he will receive 1M for free. What will he write? Will he write : "Delivery time was so slow i would prefer to watch paint dry" or will he write : "Holy shit deff recommend, best site out there"? I think we can all agree it will be the second. Lets not forget, if a customer actually takes the time to write a vouch (when not planning on it originally) that means he must REALLY want that incentive.

Number 2 : Vouch collecting. Most sellers "collect" their vouches on their vouch page by quoting all their trades one by one. If a seller has PAGES UPON PAGES of vouches IN DIFFERENT SECTIONS, how hard would it be to sneaky peaky quote a couple of these vouches double? If all the vouches are kept on one thread it's way easier to keep a good, legit and clear overview of how the seller is performing.

Number 3 : Vouch "hoarding". How many traders trade with a person they know and then go with "Just vouch me later, ok bro?". Only to ask for that vouch at a specific given time of their own choosing when their thread has dropped from the first page. Easy right? But that's not how vouches should be used.

Final words :

1. Lets all be real here. No customer will spend time and scroll through pages on pages just to read some vouches. How many people do this? Not alot at all.
2. If big sellers want traffic they can do so by buying a banner and thus supporting the Sythe community with money which in return can be used to better the forum. I don't believe for a second people like Arcus will eat a loaf of bread less a week because of the rule change.
3. All the sellers who used this incentive tactic and are pissed because "SYTHE TRAFFIC WILL DIE OUT". Are you really sad that Sythe traffic will die out? Or are u sad because (YOU THINK) you will lose customers because u can't low cost bump your thread to the top anymore? Atleast be honest about it and say it the way it is, Sythe traffic has nothing to do with it, you're just pissed because u lost your edge (you think). If you're so worried with Sythe traffic then give a customer an incentive to vouch on your vouch thread and Sythe still gets the traffic. Oh yeh, but that's not the issue right? I forgot.

Other solutions :
Giving incentive to vouching isn't the solution. There are better ways to go about this. For instance,

1. Sythe could implement a system where u can buy bumps with Sythe gold. Sythe gold could be bought from Sythe itself or from bond holders. Extra bumps bought with Sythe gold, limited to 2 of those bumps usable per day. These bumps would go ontop of the allowed number of bumps a user has each day. Sythe gold can also be earned by being active on the forums. What does that fix? Sythe gets either money or actual involvement from users trying to earn Sythe gold, bond holders will be happy, the new coming traffic will be happy.

2. An actual feedback rating system. There is even now still no clear insight on how much vouches a user actually has. Fix that by having an actual feedback system.

I like how you type unuseful long things to defend your poor way of think so I will take my time to reply to all of your stuff:

Sythe traffic-related:

You can't do those claims because you don't care about the forum at all as long as you keep getting traffic on your website, the only one that has those statistics is @Sythe and I'm sure that he will definitely agree with me that his traffic will go down. Also, I CAN ASSURE YOU that some of the members here can tell you that they end up being active users here by buying gold at some point in their lives, the truth is that most the members that come here to leave a vouch some of them stay and check the forum and end up being active, using another gold sellers AS YOU or buying services like mine and you can't argue that.

-Fairness related issues :

Number 1:
It doesn't matter at all as long as the transaction was real (Are you a vegan of the vouches or what lol?) what we care here is that the TRUSTED USER has as many vouches as possible to prove that they are legit, this is not Amazone this is a black market and XenForo has many limitations so I think the mods do as much as they can. (We don't have levels of feedback as powerbot has and that would solve that "issue" you describe)

Number 2:
The bumping system is not the problem here and mods are doing a good job controlling this. (This has always been a problem in the forum, scammers/stupid people is always trying to fake vouches and that WILL NEVER STOP no matter what rule you invent)

Number 3:
This is not against the rules and again, are you a vegan or the vouches or what? It looks like you feel butthurt that @Bogla / @Arcus Isidar is always on top with some other big sellers if you don't want to spend money on your customers via "Bonus gold" that is not our problem and the majority of the sellers agree with me.

Final words:
1) This doesn't have anything to be we what we are discussing here.
2) There is a lot of wrong things about users getting the same exposure as posted here by users:

-With the amount of ban evaders that rejoin sythe donate 200$ and scam hundreds, why would you bring in an update that makes it easier for them, giving them more exposure at the top of the market?

-How is it fair for an user that is actively trading and collecting vouches to have the same exposure as a inactive or new user?

-most people who actively trade are against this rule, yet it seems the users who aren't actively trading amongst a few known names who benefit directly from this are prioritised on this site. (Like you btw a person that is soo jew that is not willing to give a few coins to his custumers)

-I believe that's a good thing as it will reduce the amount of scammers. Everyone has to start somewhere and that's where dedication and hard work pays off. This is a free market. Don't try to make it equal for everyone, that's not going to work.

-Who cares about the time it takes to initiate a sale on Sythe? Bumping threads every 4 hours doesn't help anyone. If you care that much about bumping a thread every 4 hours because you need a sale, you should probably consider a different occupation.

-if someone doing a lot of trades that shows their business deserves more (Like you for example)

-seeing nothing else than "bump" or "Available" wont attract many people, it wont make Sythe good place to advertise, it will actually make people think their service is abandoned. It's a cancer for forums and market.

3) This is a very rude comment btw and it's just based on lies (You can't prove what you are saying is true) AND YES, WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT TRAFFIC, WE THE SMALL SELLERS AND SERVICE PROVIDERS BECAUSE IF SYTHE DIES, WE WILL HAVE TO TAKE OUR BUSINESS SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Other solutions :
1) Again more limitations and sythe gold is not that easy to get, also if the forum wants to get more money there are plenty of different ways to do it instead of harassing more the traders in a dying forum, @Sythe wants more traders/ donators /customers not less (That mechanic will keep traders more and more away from the forum.

2) XenForo won't allow

 

[ariabot]

-snip-

I've summarized the first part of your post because it's pretty long (and while I was writing the summary, the OP complained about the length of your post lol)

-Sythe's traffic will decrease because people will have less of an incentive to make accounts to leave vouches

Sythe's traffic is based on the network effect; it's the most active Runescape black market forum, so people go to it because there are more buyers/sellers.

If Sythe is so depending on traffic coming from incentive given vouches, how can you explain the HUNDREDS (yes hundreds) of accounts that have 1-3 postcount and no other activity at all?
That is because many people who vouched due to an incentive don't use the forum afterward. Actual players aren't that interested in being active in the Runescape black market; they will just take their Runescape gold and go do whatever they bought it to do.

Last but not least, if vouches are collected on vouch threads then Sythe still gets THE SAME AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC from people vouching. Some sellers wont bother collecting vouches anymore because they can't have their threads bumped anymore, but why collect vouches in the first place if all u want is the bump?


-Fairness related issues:
Few problems with previous vouch system.

1: The legitness of the vouch.
Say a user buys gold and runs into some complication(s) with the website he purchased from. This could be anything from rude staff behaviour, his payment that got stuck, identity verification he's not willing to provide, slow delivery time, so on.
After the trade, the customer is notified that he can receive 1m GP for free by leaving a vouch. Keep in mind the customer needs to leave the vouch first before being given the 1M for free.
What will the customer write? Will he write: "Delivery time was so slow i would prefer to watch paint dry" or will he write : "Holy shit deff recommend, best site out there"? I think we can all agree it will be the second, because the customer will want the 1m GP.

2: Vouch fraud/double-counting.
Most sellers "collect" their vouches on their vouch page by quoting all their trades one by one. If a seller has PAGES UPON PAGES of vouches IN DIFFERENT SECTIONS, it is easy for a unscrupulous seller to double quote some vouches. If all the vouches are kept on one thread it's way easier to keep a good, legit and clear overview of how the seller is performing.

3: Strategic usage of vouches to bump threads/Vouch "hoarding".
Traders can have people delay vouching on a thread until it has dropped from the front page. That's not how vouches should be used (because that goes beyond the purpose of a vouch serving as proof of a successful trade)

 

@CryptoGOLD
Poor way of thinking? Wow ... ouch.. lol.

Aha so, SO MANY users stay because of incentive vouches? So the fact that Sythe has the best SEO of all black markets, the fact that it gets refered regardless of the incentive vouching and the fact that Sythe has other sections that are not Runescape related, the fact that Sythe has fun stuff like competitions, a good staff team that helps spread the word, a team specifically picked to advertise, and so on have nothing to do with it? You're claiming this site thrives on incentive based vouching alone and depends it's survival on it? Glad to hear you have so much trust in Sythe itself. Seems to me you're just butthurt because u can't buy vouches anymore.... Because what u say makes no sense at all. As stated before if you're gonna buy gold from a site that you found elsewhere on the internet, why would you bother scrolling through a forum? You wouldn't, end of story. Saying otherwise is just you trying to defend your standpoint that involves around you being butthurt because they removed a rule that plays in your favor.

To be fair i already formed my opinion on what u said on number 1. So the truthfulness of the vouch DOES NOT MATTER? The only thing that matters is that big sites get more vouches so they become even bigger? So basically vouches to you aren't to determine the quality of a business, it's basically a transaction counter, if you will? Like you're actually joking right...? Omfg lol. So you just LITERALLY SAID that if a person his bias changes because he gets rewarded for leaving a vouch, THIS DOES NOT MATTER? Aslong as the big sites get the vouches? Holy hell son, might wanna pass the ball to someone who actually can give some not biased arguments, i've read a few good ones so far but none from you.

Number 3 continues your weird point of view... wow... So it doesn't matter when a vouch is given? You can collect this at any convenient time you want, even if this is a week after you have traded? And somehow you think this is ok that u collect a bump a week after u have traded? So basically i have 3 traders that i know. I trade these 5 times a day. I have 15 vouches a day that i can ask for at any specific time i want to get a bump? So i can pretty much schedule my threads to be in the number 5 spots at all times... And this is not against the rules, infact you actually endorse it...? Wow ... Like shit... I could have been at the number one spot for centuries with that tactic. Where is the line drawn? I'll just sell 1M 07 to my friend 5x a day so i can let him vouch whenever i please. Nice logic... Believe me i spend more "free gold" on my customers than you, i just don't want a reward for it. Treat your customers good because u want to provide a good service, not because u want help to get a next sale. Not my problem you can't afford a bidding war with Arcus over a banner, who doesn't want to spend money here? Am i butthurt that some sellers are always on the first page? Ofcourse... Not the fact they are but how they achieve it and the relevance of truth and the fact it can so easily be manipulated at will (number 3).

Final words :
1. It actually does, it involves around the activity of the referred Sythe traffic which is one of your original statements. Short term memory loss or what's going on?
2. Oh dear, more sensible reading.

"-With the amount of ban evaders that rejoin sythe donate 200$ and scam hundreds, why would you bring in an update that makes it easier for them, giving them more exposure at the top of the market?"
-> Most ban evaders don't pay $200 to scam, this is risky as fuck. If they do then they will wait till the right time to scam a big amount, when is that? Who the fuck knows. Can they achieve this eventually anyways? Yes... How is bumping even related to this? Most scammers use impostor scams or sell accounts and recover the accounts which has nothing to do with bumping threads.

The rest i can pretty much sum up in one go. Yes, starting off is hard and it takes dedication. I should know right? Started off 2014 and still being here. Yet pushing out everyone who is new is not a sensible way to go. You keep talking about SYTHE TRAFFIC, SYTHE TRAFFIC, yet want to push every person out who wants to start advertising their shop on Sythe? So what you want is a forum with about 10 big websites and all the other active users who eat their scraps (including you) + HUNDREDS of accounts that have 1 postcount (you failed to explain this btw). It even got so bad that Arcus got reported for self vouching multiple times because the accounts that were vouching his threads looked Spammy as fuck with NO ACTIVITY and between 1-5 posts. No one understood how he got away with self vouching. Well now we know, he didn't, he just paid half a buck for those people to help him.

Yes limitations to the forum are present, i know. If u want to expose how good your business is then perhaps link your vouch thread or quote some of them in your OP with a link to where they can find the original.

Please don't talk about my occupation. How good can a service really be if you have to force someone to vouch by paying them? How much of a cheapskate are you to only offer 0.50$ for a vouch? I would rather pay $10 per bump to Sythe than abuse something that should be used to give an index on how good a business is. Not something that can be manipulated and used at will and above all is NOT EVEN USED FOR VOUCHING BUT FOR BUMPS.

More solutions can be presented. Switch text bumping to button bumping to avoid the spammy look and so on.

 

@CryptoGOLD
Poor way of thinking? Wow ... ouch.. lol.

Aha so, SO MANY users stay because of incentive vouches? So the fact that Sythe has the best SEO of all black markets, the fact that it gets refered regardless of the incentive vouching and the fact that Sythe has other sections that are not Runescape related, the fact that Sythe has fun stuff like competitions, a good staff team that helps spread the word, a team specifically picked to advertise, and so on have nothing to do with it? You're claiming this site thrives on incentive based vouching alone and depends it's survival on it? Glad to hear you have so much trust in Sythe itself. Seems to me you're just butthurt because u can't buy vouches anymore.... Because what u say makes no sense at all. As stated before if you're gonna buy gold from a site that you found elsewhere on the internet, why would you bother scrolling through a forum? You wouldn't, end of story. Saying otherwise is just you trying to defend your standpoint that involves around you being butthurt because they removed a rule that plays in your favor.

To be fair i already formed my opinion on what u said on number 1. So the truthfulness of the vouch DOES NOT MATTER? The only thing that matters is that big sites get more vouches so they become even bigger? So basically vouches to you aren't to determine the quality of a business, it's basically a transaction counter, if you will? Like you're actually joking right...? Omfg lol. So you just LITERALLY SAID that if a person his bias changes because he gets rewarded for leaving a vouch, THIS DOES NOT MATTER? Aslong as the big sites get the vouches? Holy hell son, might wanna pass the ball to someone who actually can give some not biased arguments, i've read a few good ones so far but none from you.

Number 3 continues your weird point of view... wow... So it doesn't matter when a vouch is given? You can collect this at any convenient time you want, even if this is a week after you have traded? And somehow you think this is ok that u collect a bump a week after u have traded? So basically i have 3 traders that i know. I trade these 5 times a day. I have 15 vouches a day that i can ask for at any specific time i want to get a bump? So i can pretty much schedule my threads to be in the number 5 spots at all times... And this is not against the rules, infact you actually endorse it...? Wow ... Like shit... I could have been at the number one spot for centuries with that tactic. Where is the line drawn? I'll just sell 1M 07 to my friend 5x a day so i can let him vouch whenever i please. Nice logic... Believe me i spend more "free gold" on my customers than you, i just don't want a reward for it. Treat your customers good because u want to provide a good service, not because u want help to get a next sale. Not my problem you can't afford a bidding war with Arcus over a banner, who doesn't want to spend money here? Am i butthurt that some sellers are always on the first page? Ofcourse... Not the fact they are but how they achieve it and the relevance of truth and the fact it can so easily be manipulated at will (number 3).

Final words :
1. It actually does, it involves around the activity of the referred Sythe traffic which is one of your original statements. Short term memory loss or what's going on?
2. Oh dear, more sensible reading.

"-With the amount of ban evaders that rejoin sythe donate 200$ and scam hundreds, why would you bring in an update that makes it easier for them, giving them more exposure at the top of the market?"
-> Most ban evaders don't pay $200 to scam, this is risky as fuck. If they do then they will wait till the right time to scam a big amount, when is that? Who the fuck knows. Can they achieve this eventually anyways? Yes... How is bumping even related to this? Most scammers use impostor scams or sell accounts and recover the accounts which has nothing to do with bumping threads.

The rest i can pretty much sum up in one go. Yes, starting off is hard and it takes dedication. I should know right? Started off 2014 and still being here. Yet pushing out everyone who is new is not a sensible way to go. You keep talking about SYTHE TRAFFIC, SYTHE TRAFFIC, yet want to push every person out who wants to start advertising their shop on Sythe? So what you want is a forum with about 10 big websites and all the other active users who eat their scraps (including you) + HUNDREDS of accounts that have 1 postcount (you failed to explain this btw). It even got so bad that Arcus got reported for self vouching multiple times because the accounts that were vouching his threads looked Spammy as fuck with NO ACTIVITY and between 1-5 posts. No one understood how he got away with self vouching. Well now we know, he didn't, he just paid half a buck for those people to help him.

Yes limitations to the forum are present, i know. If u want to expose how good your business is then perhaps link your vouch thread or quote some of them in your OP with a link to where they can find the original.

Please don't talk about my occupation. How good can a service really be if you have to force someone to vouch by paying them? How much of a cheapskate are you to only offer 0.50$ for a vouch? I would rather pay $10 per bump to Sythe than abuse something that should be used to give an index on how good a business is. Not something that can be manipulated and used at will and above all is NOT EVEN USED FOR VOUCHING BUT FOR BUMPS.

More solutions can be presented. Switch text bumping to button bumping to avoid the spammy look and so on.

I will reply to that in a few hours, need to sleep a little bit, what I can tell you at the moment is that most of the users here AGREE WITH ME that they were not asked for this and that is a shitty update based on the opinion of a member (YOU) that most of the members here can't relate, you just were lucky that users don't check this section so often otherwise your plans would have fail.

 

I will reply to that in a few hours, need to sleep a little bit, what I can tell you at the moment is that most of the users here AGREE WITH ME that they were not asked for this and that is a shitty update based on the opinion of a member (YOU) that most of the members here can't relate, you just were lucky that users don't check this section so often otherwise your plans would have fail.

I like how you think suggestion decisions are based on how many "i support" replies a thread gets and not the outcome of a staff discussion + poll. Goodjob.

 

I like how you think suggestion decisions are based on how many "i support" replies a thread gets and not the outcome of a staff discussion + poll. Goodjob.

I like how you think that user suggestions are not as important as staff discussion what a great businessman you are... Mmmmm I think I remember another company doing bad because of that OH YES WAS JAGEX!

 

I like how you think that user suggestions are not as important as staff discussion what a great businessman you are... Mmmmm I think I remember another company doing bad because of that OH YES WAS JAGEX!

I like how you think that the whole forum is siding with you yet in reality it's only the people who actually misused the purpose of a vouch that are complaining. I like how you have no point of perception because you're complaining about Jagex yet their top game Runescape which was released in 2001 is still one of the top MMORPG's to date over a time span of 18 years and their player base is still solid while most other games die out after 5 years. Oh you're one of those kids that screamed bloody murder when they removed flower games making it impossible for you to make a quick buck right? Because it hurts your pocket, it must be bad for the whole community, right?

Well buddy, might as well do like you said yourself and put some actual effort in your business to get it advertised because if u have to pay people for vouches, ur business can't be all that good, can it?

I might not be the most vouched person on Sythe but atleast i can say that every vouch i received is one from users who WANTED to vouch for me and not from people who i had to pay.

 

@CryptoGOLD
Poor way of thinking? Wow ... ouch.. lol.

Aha so, SO MANY users stay because of incentive vouches? So the fact that Sythe has the best SEO of all black markets, the fact that it gets refered regardless of the incentive vouching and the fact that Sythe has other sections that are not Runescape related, the fact that Sythe has fun stuff like competitions, a good staff team that helps spread the word, a team specifically picked to advertise, and so on have nothing to do with it? You're claiming this site thrives on incentive based vouching alone and depends it's survival on it? Glad to hear you have so much trust in Sythe itself. Seems to me you're just butthurt because u can't buy vouches anymore.... Because what u say makes no sense at all. As stated before if you're gonna buy gold from a site that you found elsewhere on the internet, why would you bother scrolling through a forum? You wouldn't, end of story. Saying otherwise is just you trying to defend your standpoint that involves around you being butthurt because they removed a rule that plays in your favor.

To be fair i already formed my opinion on what u said on number 1. So the truthfulness of the vouch DOES NOT MATTER? The only thing that matters is that big sites get more vouches so they become even bigger? So basically vouches to you aren't to determine the quality of a business, it's basically a transaction counter, if you will? Like you're actually joking right...? Omfg lol. So you just LITERALLY SAID that if a person his bias changes because he gets rewarded for leaving a vouch, THIS DOES NOT MATTER? Aslong as the big sites get the vouches? Holy hell son, might wanna pass the ball to someone who actually can give some not biased arguments, i've read a few good ones so far but none from you.

Number 3 continues your weird point of view... wow... So it doesn't matter when a vouch is given? You can collect this at any convenient time you want, even if this is a week after you have traded? And somehow you think this is ok that u collect a bump a week after u have traded? So basically i have 3 traders that i know. I trade these 5 times a day. I have 15 vouches a day that i can ask for at any specific time i want to get a bump? So i can pretty much schedule my threads to be in the number 5 spots at all times... And this is not against the rules, infact you actually endorse it...? Wow ... Like shit... I could have been at the number one spot for centuries with that tactic. Where is the line drawn? I'll just sell 1M 07 to my friend 5x a day so i can let him vouch whenever i please. Nice logic... Believe me i spend more "free gold" on my customers than you, i just don't want a reward for it. Treat your customers good because u want to provide a good service, not because u want help to get a next sale. Not my problem you can't afford a bidding war with Arcus over a banner, who doesn't want to spend money here? Am i butthurt that some sellers are always on the first page? Ofcourse... Not the fact they are but how they achieve it and the relevance of truth and the fact it can so easily be manipulated at will (number 3).

Final words :
1. It actually does, it involves around the activity of the referred Sythe traffic which is one of your original statements. Short term memory loss or what's going on?
2. Oh dear, more sensible reading.

"-With the amount of ban evaders that rejoin sythe donate 200$ and scam hundreds, why would you bring in an update that makes it easier for them, giving them more exposure at the top of the market?"
-> Most ban evaders don't pay $200 to scam, this is risky as fuck. If they do then they will wait till the right time to scam a big amount, when is that? Who the fuck knows. Can they achieve this eventually anyways? Yes... How is bumping even related to this? Most scammers use impostor scams or sell accounts and recover the accounts which has nothing to do with bumping threads.

The rest i can pretty much sum up in one go. Yes, starting off is hard and it takes dedication. I should know right? Started off 2014 and still being here. Yet pushing out everyone who is new is not a sensible way to go. You keep talking about SYTHE TRAFFIC, SYTHE TRAFFIC, yet want to push every person out who wants to start advertising their shop on Sythe? So what you want is a forum with about 10 big websites and all the other active users who eat their scraps (including you) + HUNDREDS of accounts that have 1 postcount (you failed to explain this btw). It even got so bad that Arcus got reported for self vouching multiple times because the accounts that were vouching his threads looked Spammy as fuck with NO ACTIVITY and between 1-5 posts. No one understood how he got away with self vouching. Well now we know, he didn't, he just paid half a buck for those people to help him.

Yes limitations to the forum are present, i know. If u want to expose how good your business is then perhaps link your vouch thread or quote some of them in your OP with a link to where they can find the original.

Please don't talk about my occupation. How good can a service really be if you have to force someone to vouch by paying them? How much of a cheapskate are you to only offer 0.50$ for a vouch? I would rather pay $10 per bump to Sythe than abuse something that should be used to give an index on how good a business is. Not something that can be manipulated and used at will and above all is NOT EVEN USED FOR VOUCHING BUT FOR BUMPS.

More solutions can be presented. Switch text bumping to button bumping to avoid the spammy look and so on.

I like how you like to conduct the debate with things I never said

1) I didn't say many users, but users get to know about the forum and some of them (A small but important amount stay which is important because 1 is better than 0 and by stopping this mechanic that won't happen anymore)

2) Yes, Richard might be the most successful SEO of all but he won't deny when the whether the forum is doing well or bad and that is not your problem and it's not into your interest because you only thing about your "Morals" but the truth is that you are too lazy and you think that is not worth to do the same practices as others so because of that you want to prevent that from happening even if that means that the forum will do worst in terms of traffic.

3) Events and competitions don't bring new users that is a false statement and even if that is possible the number of users won't be significant at all.

4) I'm not butthurt because I've never bought any vouch so my opinion still as valid as yours and If you are going to claim that false statement you have to prove it again.

5) Again another false statement to defend your point, yes sythe has received many new active users in the past because they made a review for a website and many important users here can tell about how they end up here in the forum.

In my own experience, I was referred here by a kid that bought rs3 gold and left a vouch here, so I was looking for information to get into the RWT market and ended up here BECAUSE OF HIM and many users have the same stories that you can't erase with your false statements.

6) A vouch IS NOT the same as a review you are mixing the definitions to fulfill your ambitions and in your poor attempt to prove something that is meaningless the only point of a vouch is to prove legitness and if the user is trustworthy no more than that but you want to try to make users believe that is about the quality of a seller or service provider when In fact you make those inferences by judging the complete vouch list of a user not based on a vouch itself.

7) I consider that It could be kinda unfair to do that practice of saving vouch/bumps for later (I never did such thing) but what you are describing is not illegal and that still counts as a legit transaction so stop being a crybaby about that, users can easily bypass that by just getting as many vouches as possible this is a FREE and COMPETITIVE MARKET but you still want to keep pushing that thing of the same BUMP FOR EVERYONE, it feels like some sort of social justice vegan warrior stuff born in communism WTF.

8) Arcus was reported for self vouching many times, well it looks like a lot of people have never been involved in the referring program as other users do every day and that is how it looks like and I believe that I could name some examples of this and even prove it court but it looks like again that you are more focused on proving your point than base on reality and I don't see Arcus banned for self vouching because probably they were INNOCENT and If YOU claim the opposite then you think that sythe mods were incompetent and they made their investigation job wrongly.

9) "How good can a service really be if you have to force someone to vouch by paying them"

It's funny how you use your words carefully to make look the activity even shadier by using words like "FORCE" for real? Vouches are not mandatory and if a customer chooses to do then it's because they have financial motivations, WHICH IS GREAT AND VALID AND IT'S NOT YOUR BUSSINES, do you know the definition of free-market right?

10) Why we don't allow both activities? that would encourage the spirit of a free market, having the ability to buy more bumps from sythe or just incentivizing customers for each vouch.

11) And finally, an infinity thread full of BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP is more spammy lookalike than a full thread of vouches full of positive things.

 

I like how you think that the whole forum is siding with you yet in reality it's only the people who actually misused the purpose of a vouch that are complaining. I like how you have no point of perception because you're complaining about Jagex yet their top game Runescape which was released in 2001 is still one of the top MMORPG's to date over a time span of 18 years and their player base is still solid while most other games die out after 5 years. Oh you're one of those kids that screamed bloody murder when they removed flower games making it impossible for you to make a quick buck right? Because it hurts your pocket, it must be bad for the whole community, right?

Well buddy, might as well do like you said yourself and put some actual effort in your business to get it advertised because if u have to pay people for vouches, ur business can't be all that good, can it?

I might not be the most vouched person on Sythe but atleast i can say that every vouch i received is one from users who WANTED to vouch for me and not from people who i had to pay.

You are misleading the meaning of my words on purpose to win the debate so let me be crystal clear on this:

1) What I was saying about JAGEX is that they made the mistake of not listen to their player base in many opportunities and TONS of player RAGE QUIT the game for things like EOC, Trade limit, wilderness update, etc. So don't pretend to not getting the point by just "not understanding" my arguments just to win the debate what an awful technique you are using there.

2) I'm not a gambling addict so don't pretend that you are outsmarting me because you think you know me well when the fun thing is that you haven't even guessed a single thing about me and my motivations.

3) Some people can pay banners on sythe as you do and others can just afford to offer a bonus gold for a vouch and then some others are very very competitive and they want it ALL, is there a problem with that? NO! capitalism is great and you can't change my mind.

4) So you got all of your vouches by not paying, well congrats on having a useless achievement AS me!

 

[RuneMetrix]

Go back to 8 hour bumps.

Give an option to buy bumps as suggested 2 per day, through venues such as sythe gold or other things sold through site.

No more bump
Vouching.

Sythe creates another advertising revenue stream, those who want to spend to stay at the top of threads longer can, and loopholes stopped being abused.

Seems like a win win win.

 

[ariabot]

I will reply to that in a few hours, need to sleep a little bit, what I can tell you at the moment is that most of the users here AGREE WITH ME that they were not asked for this and that is a shitty update based on the opinion of a member (YOU) that most of the members here can't relate, you just were lucky that users don't check this section so often otherwise your plans would have fail.

The thread was months old and had a considerable amount of support (at least for something in that subforum).

RSGM owns what is probably the largest gold site that uses 3rd parties to deliver GP to buyers. Because of that, he could have abused the old system to a greater extent than normal gold selling websites by having both the person selling GP on behalf of his website as well as the person buying GP vouch on his buy/selling threads in exchange for some incentive, which would have allowed him to keep his threads on top of the forums at all times.
However, instead of resorting to shady business practices, he chose to stand up and ask for the elimination of that form of vouch abuse, even though he would have profited greatly from doing it.

 

The thread was months old and had a considerable amount of support (at least for something in that subforum).

RSGM owns what is probably the largest gold site that uses 3rd parties to deliver GP to buyers. Because of that, he could have abused the old system to a greater extent than normal gold selling websites by having both the person selling GP on behalf of his website as well as the person buying GP vouch on his buy/selling threads in exchange for some incentive, which would have allowed him to keep his threads on top of the forums at all times.
However, instead of resorting to shady business practices, he chose to suggest something that would eliminate vouch abuse.

1) Those are not shady business practices

2) It is not abuse because there were real transactions involved in each vouch.

Time will prove that I was on the right side of history.

 

No support.

The topic was open for months. If you were not happy, you should have replied then.
I also made a similar topic last year and the majority of "the market" supported it, although at the time it wasn't passed. I suggested it for different reasons, but RSGM pointed out some other issues.

Source mentioned: https://www.sythe.org/threads/denie...forum-properly-and-stop-the-bumping-loophole/

1) "BIG MISTAKE THAT WILL KILL THE MARKET FOREVER"

No. It won't.

2) "The old vouch system bring more users to the forum every day"

#32 - May 17, 2019 at 8:21 AM ->

"Yes but it doesn't matter where they post. If the vouch thread section was actually used instead, then the said new users would also be referred to sythe.org to sign up, plus be able to be introduced to all of the sections they may find desirable.

This being said, these posts are a clear loophole to the bumping system. Speaking generally "everybody" (of course not some newcomer dumb dumb) knows this. Traffic referrals do not have to come to sythe in the form of a thread bump disguised as a vouch.

As RSGM says in a previous post, it would be highly unlikely that sites would offer the $1/1m incentive for a vouch if it did not benefit their business through this practice.

Of course we can jump on the "free market" bandwagon when debating marketing ethics here, or we can also use words along the lines of "your jealous because big boy sites use this and you can't, blah blah blah", but that is besides the point. This suggestion was made by one of these so called "big boys", although he is humble enough to speak from the perspective as the mid-level business owner."


3) "GOLD COMPANIES won't have any motivation to redirect their TRAFFIC to sythe.org which will decrease the traffic of the forum and will lead to its end."

I'm sorry I don't know you and do not want to offend you, so take this lightly.

But...

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? NO. NO. NO.

That is not how traffic is directed to sythe! If it was, then the site would be DEAD. Gold site owners send a MARGINAL amount of traffic to this site, and MOST of it was in the form of spammy vouches left by accounts that would never return. If they did, it was to vouch again, before eventually leaving an untouched junk account in the system with less than 10 posts and NO OTHER user engagement.

Sythe.org has great SEO, and is very well ranked authority site for LOTS of runescape related search terms. It is also ranked well in search terms for the surplus of other games it has discussion topics and market threads for.

Most of sythe's traffic is direct traffic or from search engine results. It is not comparable to a gold site.

For the most part Sythe provides gold site owners with traffic, NOT the other way around.


4) "DO NOT FORGET that sythe.org does not spend a single cent on advertising the forum"

It simply doesn't need to. It's an authority site for its niche, and no competitor is a threat at this moment in time.

There is no need for sythe.org to run an ad campaign for most search terms, as it's already on the first page or two of results.

Sure, paid ad campaigns would still do wonders for the site, especially by re-targeting people, but again, it's not necessary.

 

Autobumpers/paid-bumpers exist as there is evidently a demand for it, and thus the supply. The demand will continue to exist unless the structure of this forum changes, which is extremely unlikely, primarily due to the simple fact that exposure is gained via being consistently present on page 1 of whichever section.

Also, where is the irony?

"Competing with robots" is a completely redundant statement here. Everyone and anyone can bump their threads as often - just because other competitors may not be available 24/7, or may not want to invest in an autobumper/paid-bumper, why should those willing suffer? Why would any business not want to maximise their exposure?

Your statement about users being offline is also irrelevant, as it's been stated time and time again (and in the rules), that users/traders/companies need to be available/contactable when their threads are bumped. If you see this being abused, report it.

Also, what does PC and SG have to do with anything? PC is not a symbol of trust. If you have an issue with how SG is acquired, then that's a conversation you need to have with Matt/Sythe.

Imagine how unfair it must be for the RS player that does not pay/cannot afford RS services, to then have to compete with/train as fast those that can. Do you not see that this is simply a result of this forum evolving, alongside supply and demand.

You're defending the bottes by stating they pay for them your logic is flawed,

You also compare to OSRS in an irrelevant way as OSRS is against botting.

The fact you think its fair competition to pay for cheap bots and then have users who are "ACTUALLY" online to compete with them is ridiculous and shows your desire to simply target me without any true analytical reasoning behind it.

Stay in your old ways , using bots to spam the forums/ allowing people to spam bump with them while offline to out compete their comp is #deadcontent.
.

Thank you come again lad.

YH

 

[S]

You're defending the bottes by stating they pay for them your logic is flawed,

What? How is my logic flawed? If you’re going to refute what I’m saying, at least provide some sort of counter argument, rather than consistently refuting most people’s arguments maintaining the same sentiment that, only you are right

You also compare to OSRS in an irrelevant way as OSRS is against botting.

Botting is one component, similarly, autobumpers are one component. E.g, paid-bumpers equate to paying users to manually train said RS account(s).

The fact you think its fair competition to pay for cheap bots and then have users who are "ACTUALLY" online to compete with them is ridiculous and shows your desire to simply target me without any true analytical reasoning behind it.

Everything you’ve said thus far seems to be from a stance of pure emotion, rather than (at the very minimum) attempting to at least maintain some objectivity. I, regardless of whom I speak to, always attempt to remain objective in nature. This has nothing to do with you, or me, or targeting you.

Stay in your old ways , using bots to spam the forums/ allowing people to spam bump with them while offline to out compete their comp is #deadcontent.

Lastly, I don’t use autobumpers or paid-bumpers, so this has no direct impact on me at all, and does not affect me in the slightest. I’m looking at this objectively. You are deluded af.