[resolved]

[OneKiss]

Not necessarily a ''scam'' report because I don't think they have any bad intentions, but lack of communication has made me believe they are just hoping I lose the money back and brush me aside.

I simply just don't have the patience to withdraw 18b in 100ms as they are expecting me to do apart from the lucky 8b i got already which was just good timing because someone else wanted to cash it in

Scammer's profile link: Runestake
Amount scammed: 18b osrs
Discord ID + Unique Discord ID: unsure
Proof that it's their Discord: unsure how to do this
Explanation of the trade: 18b awaiting to be cashed out
How they scammed: To long cashing out

When I said I'd gladly sell them the gold in the chat they said ''I do not understand the legality behind that'' When I'm sure the only reason I'm waiting is because they are going to buy the gold, so why not just buy the tokens from me

Then my second idea was for me to repeatedly sell back the 2b they give me on discord then they would have repeated 2bs to cash me out tokens, in that case I got told I'd need to speak to the unresponsive bosses, which is a perfect ''legality'' loophole they are just avoiding to do it
Screenshot

 

[OneKiss]

And before they respond

No I do not want to pay a premium 5% to cashout quicker, the time isn't the only problem, it's the lack of communication when I'm a new player, the lies saying the owners are asleep when they are online discord and posting announcments

And no I do not want to sit all day taking 50-100ms other people are trying to cashin, fighting with 3 other people trying to cash out

Owners should have a responsibility to organise gold quickly for people who win, and for them to tell me to just wait and take it out slowly is ridiculous

It took me to make a scene in the chat for the cashier who had apparently been working 7 hours prior to actually respond, there was no reply on discord or in the runestake chat saying they are attempting to organise gold

 

[OneKiss]

As expected, the casino wins again, lost the 18b,

12 hours wait, no response from cashiers till this report was open then the cashier finishs the 8 hour shift after an hour of ''looking'' for gold

Typical gambling sites always get the win by stalling you long enough to bait into temptation and lose the money

But it's a sponsor on sythe so it's probably going to get closed and forgotten, and many others will go through the same problem I just did

Thankfully i got 15b profit so not to annoyed, but rules need placed to stop casinos doing this in future.

I hope this really gets looked at and not just brushed aside.

 

[OneKiss]

Not necessarily a ''scam'' report because I don't think they have any bad intentions, but lack of communication has made me believe they are just hoping I lose the money back and brush me aside.

After rereading I change this, I do want to report this as a scam as I believe they knew exactly what they were doing.

Gamble on runestake, where we take all your cryptocurrency and give none of it back, and let other customers deal with cashing out

 

[President]

Hello good friends @Runestake and @OneKiss

From your wording, @OneKiss , I understand that you are not happy with the way RuneStake handled the situation so far. I have two questions for you:
1. What do you hope to achieve with this report against Runestake (i.e. do you want RuneStake to be punished, and if so, what punishment should they receive)?
2. Do you have a particular claim in this situation (i.e. is there something you want from @Runestake )?

Thank you in advance

 

[OneKiss]

Hello good friends @Runestake and @OneKiss

From your wording, @OneKiss , I understand that you are not happy with the way RuneStake handled the situation so far. I have two questions for you:
1. What do you hope to achieve with this report against Runestake (i.e. do you want RuneStake to be punished, and if so, what punishment should they receive)?
2. Do you have a particular claim in this situation (i.e. is there something you want from @Runestake )?

Thank you in advance

First of all, I seen them view the report multiple times it's disgusting they don't even have the decency to post publicly with an apology or an explanation of there side of the story, it just stinks of guilt.

It's actually sickening that they are liking all my posts, almost as if they are mocking what I just went through without a care in the world, unless they are liking it because they agree they were in the wrong and perhaps wanting to make an effort to change, who knows.

What would I like to achieve?

Yes, a punishment has to be given for this I'll explain why

• I offered solutions to sell the cashier the gold back on discord to fuel repeated cashouts for me and they told me no and ignored me Screenshot Screenshot
• The owners and cashier on duty were purposely ignoring me on discord and having moderators tell me they were asleep
  
• Basically everyone involved in cashouts avoided me, the cashier did not tell me once in 7 hours that gold was being prepared, or to do smaller cash outs
• They are letting people win far more than they can have to cash out in a timely manner, If ban risk is the problem why are they so quick to take 10b+ cashins, but when it comes to cashing out ban risk is what slows the process down?

Do I have a particular claim in the situation?

I have the decency to hold myself liable that it was me who clicked bet, it was me who lost the money and perhaps in two more days I could of withdrawn the rest but it takes away from the fact that there was no attempt for 7-8 hours for the cashier on duty to cash me out prior to doing this report, infact there was not even a message from her in the runestake chat for the whole shift prior to this report

I think some sort of compensation is fair as I think they knew exactly what they were doing and I have all evidence of it

My questions to @Runestake which might totally change my perspective on how I see things if they have good answers

• Why did Chloe not buy my 2-4bs I was offering her on discord to help fund other cashouts from me or harek (who was also on at the time waiting for cashouts)
• What are the legal laws your following to be able to take all this crypto deposits and not have to pay anything out of your own pocket to actually cash anyone out, it seems like it would be the opposite way around where it is the LAW to pay people out
• If bans are the problem, whys it so quick to cash in and not quick to cash out
• Is there any evidence of Chloe looking/sourcing gold for the 8 hours I was waiting and had my withdrawal up or was it being completely left to people who were wanting to cash in
  
• Will things change in future

In summary, yes I'd like an explanation, apology, an offer to make things right.

I would also plead for anyone in a similar situation, or have evidence of them cashing out in cryptocurrency in the past to come fourth

For a site following a lot of legal procedures they are fine to break the biggest law and not have KYC age verification checks, its funny how the legal protocols they follow are only ones that save them money

 

[OneKiss]

Screenshot

Atleast they agree anyway.

 

Hello everyone.

We're happy to hear you made 15b from playing on our site. For those who aren't familiar, our peer to peer gold exchange allows users to trade on our site and profit tokens and withdraw Runescape Gold.

Throughout your play you were instructed by various staff to post gold listings and keep them open so that we could give you portions of the gold as we can. On top of the guidance of our staff, various users with large amount of gold offered to trade their gold for your tokens on our gold exchange. You declined all of their offers because they weren't big enough and you wanted larger amounts.

I agree that users who are playing with tens of bils won't have the best experience and that it will require a bit of patience but your 11,000 tokens (~18,000m 07) isn't something that you can find in the timeframe (GMT Hours) that you requested, especially when 90% of our staff is asleep. We are constantly improving our systems and your feedback is greatly appreciated.

To touch on a few points Kiss made:
1. Chloe was on shift at the time and attempting to find you gold throughout the entire course of your play.
2. We do indeed take crypto deposits for our tokens on site. We don't offer real money withdraws which is stated in our TOS.

We apologize that you didn't have the greatest experience but we are always working to improve the system and have some nicer withdrawal experiences coming fairly soon.

Edit 2: I've spoken with President on Discord and provided some insight into the situation.

Edit 3: Also I forgot to touch on this but liking your post wasn't meant in the way that you may have taken it. User feedback is extremely important to us and a situation like this is something we can learn from.

 

[OneKiss]

Hello everyone.

We're happy to hear you made 15b from playing on our site. For those who aren't familiar, our peer to peer gold exchange allows users to trade on our site and profit tokens and withdraw Runescape Gold.

Throughout your play you were instructed by various staff to post gold listings and keep them open so that we could give you portions of the gold as we can. On top of the guidance of our staff, various users with large amount of gold offered to trade their gold for your tokens on our gold exchange. You declined all of their offers because they weren't big enough and you wanted larger amounts.

I agree that users who are playing with tens of bils won't have the best experience and that it will require a bit of patience but your 11,000 tokens (~18,000m 07) isn't something that you can find in the timeframe (GMT Hours) that you requested, especially when 90% of our staff is asleep. We are constantly improving our systems and your feedback is greatly appreciated.

To touch on a few points Kiss made:
1. Chloe was on shift at the time and attempting to find you gold throughout the entire course of your play.
2. We do indeed take crypto deposits for our tokens on site. We don't offer real money withdraws which is stated in our TOS.

We apologize that you didn't have the greatest experience but we are always working to improve the system and have some nicer withdrawal experiences coming fairly soon.

Edit 2: I've spoken with President on Discord and provided some insight into the situation.

You are missing the point, you took my crypto, so why are you not taking charge of doing the withdraw, i could even see somewhat an argument if I had of cashed in gp with someone not runestake staff related then had to cash out with someone not runestake staff related

Also,
Can I see evidence Chloe was actively looking to buy gold, between 6am-2pm GMT

When i was instructed to make lower cashouts I did, it didn't make you work any quicker or chloe to get gold, infact chloe didn't say a word until this report was made and then I think it was just damage control

@Runestake Can I get a reasonable answer for why I was not allowed to sell Chloe the initial 2bs she did give me to fund my (or other) peoples cashout? How was she ''actively'' looking for gold for hours when I was literally in her discord dm's offering her gold which could have been used for cashing out, a seller was right in front of her.

What legality issues do you have by doing this also, is this all just an excuse to protect your own pockets and only care about the legal side of things when it comes to you paying out?

EDIT: And Also, this does not change the fact that Chloe is the cashier who was online the whole time, did not approach me in the runestake chat, discord dms or my discord support ticket

There was 0% effort from her at all looking for gold.

 

[OneKiss]

You declined all of their offers because they weren't big enough and you wanted larger amounts.

Can I see evidence of this, I declined offers refusing to pay 5% premiums to cash out gold, but everytime someone made a request for 0% fee to cashout it was getting taken instantly by someone else, which was probably chloe as it's her job to have eyes glued at a screen taking gold on behalf of you

And yes, I think I am in the right to not be wanting to spend all day looking at a screen taking 30-60ms off people, this was a large amount where owners should of stepped up and took responsility

 

[OneKiss]

I have won 10b+ on @RuneHall multiple times, insanely well ran website. Cashed out ingame within hours, sometimes 10b+ even within the hour. being updated frequently, when I did not want ingame or they knew I was selling it they very quickly cashed me out cryptocurrency

That's how a gambling website SHOULD be ran. Swift responses, kept up to date and very transparent

And time of day for cashing out 10b+ for them was never an issue, but I guess they are just a level above runestake? Or who knows.

If one gambling site can follow a simple procedure of stocking gold, communicating and showing transparency then the others should be able to

 

[OneKiss]

I would like to add that I was awake and witnessed the whole occurrence. I am not affiliated with runestake just a user (zebradoz). OP came on the site with 1k and ended up reaching 12k tokens or so. I cashed him out 7-8b using the peer system. He kept going back in and winning and wanted more cash outs, but nobody was on that late with such large amounts of money.
As more users deposited I continued to cash him out, but he was getting impatient and went back in to gamble and lose his tokens. Now he is posting here because nobody had 18b+ at odd hours.

Chloe was on, chloe could have bought ingame off me on discord and fulfil me and hareks cashouts by reusing the same 2b, but it was ignored when suggested.

The gold sellers for these cashouts were literally right in front of her. all this nonsense of it not being a good time to cash out is ridiculous the gp market never sleeps all this nonsense of it being a bad time is stupid.

EDIT: good you were on, you can probably vouch chloe didn't say a word for the whole 10 hours she was on, i didn't even know she existed until 30 minutes before she left lmao.

 

[OneKiss]

@Runestake as this is getting messy can you show

• Evidence Chloe was looking for gold at 6am-2pm gmt
  
• Evidence the cashier (chloe at the time) was trying to approach or contact me to do lower cash outs (Not a mod just giving advice (which i did follow) )
  
• An explanation to why she wouldn't buy the 2b ingame off me on discord and keep reusing the same gold
• Precise ''Legality'' reasoning behind not being able to just buy tokens off someone, I do believe this is just all waffle to avoid paying out cryptocurrency in large sums to avoid cashing out massive.
• An explanation to why @Shogun told me at 1pm you were asleep but you were around and had posted an announcement 2 hours prior (which is now removed)

This is basically all I want to know, if there is no evidence/good explanations surely something should be done as punishment?

And for everyone thinking I'm just wanting my money back, No I don't care about the money i clicked bet, i lost the money that's on me, it's the principle of how scummy they were with communication/avoiding me

 

[OneKiss]

I have yet to see someone not get cashed out. Unfortunate that sometimes you have to wait for peers, but it’s a system designed to help with bans. Let’s be honest you are making this post because you went back in and lost. If you waited for admin Fox I don’t believe he would not eventually get you situated. If anything your post proves that unlike these other rigged sites runestake is a cool place to win tokens. Verifiable seed is OP.

The report was made hours before I lost and I was speaking to president on discord hours before saying I'd give owners benefit of the doubt. So no

 

[President]

@Runestake as this is getting messy can you show

• Evidence Chloe was looking for gold at 6am-2pm gmt
  
• Evidence the cashier (chloe at the time) was trying to approach or contact me to do lower cash outs (Not a mod just giving advice (which i did follow) )
  
• An explanation to why she wouldn't buy the 2b ingame off me on discord and keep reusing the same gold
• Precise ''Legality'' reasoning behind not being able to just buy tokens off someone, I do believe this is just all waffle to avoid paying out cryptocurrency in large sums to avoid cashing out massive.
• An explanation to why @Shogun told me at 1pm you were asleep but you were around and had posted an announcement 2 hours prior (which is now removed)

This is basically all I want to know, if there is no evidence/good explanations surely something should be done as punishment?

And for everyone thinking I'm just wanting my money back, No I don't care about the money i clicked bet, i lost the money that's on me, it's the principle of how scummy they were with communication/avoiding me

After chatting with @OneKiss on Discord, he requested for me to enforceable request RuneStake to collect evidence and answer these questions. I answered that I will not do so on the ground that I don't believe that these questions are answering the core questions of this report, in addition to the fact that no scam has occurred. RuneStake is free, however, to honor this request and satisfy their (former) customer.

 

[OneKiss]

I don't believe that these questions are answering the core questions of this report

I think these questions are incredibly important to the report, yes no scam may have been taken place but surely I can report someone for bad intentions, bad trading practices, intent to scam?

For example, my question of asking for evidence chloe was looking for gold through 6am-2pm gmt, if she wasn't looking for gold were runestake owners and staff members lying saying they were working on cashing me out? How can you be trying to cash someone out with gp you don't have if your not looking for gold

Another example, why would she not buy the gold off me on discord to use it to cash out me or other people

These are questions all useful to finding out if they were actually intending to cash me out or not, if they weren't, were they attempting to scam?

And a question for moderators, what do you define as bad trading practices?
Is lying saying owners are asleep, when they are awake bad trading practices?
Is saying your looking to buy gold to cash someone out when your not able to prove it bad trading practices?
Is ignoring discords messages, not replying to a customer for over 8 hours, while there is staff on shifts handling cashouts not considered bad trading practices?
Is only attempting to make things right once a report has been made not considered bad trading practices?

If any of those answers to bad trading practices is yes, whats the punishment for that?

I'm in the middle of all this, I feel scammed, why is it not enforcable for these questoins to be asked when it could lead to the intentions of if they were attempting to scam me or avoid me

Does runestake just pay another couple banner advertisements then this report gets swept under the rug? Does bad trading practices and customer service along with legitimacy and transparency not apply to them as they are a sponsor?

It is definitely not fair to just take runestakes word on it just because of the status he has on this website, he should be treated equally like everyone else to show evidence of situations where relevant, and this is totally a relevant enough report to ask for this evidence.

I need enlightened on this more than what your saying @President I appreciate the time and research and trying to make things work, but what your saying seems like nonsense to me and I'd appreciate an admin to talk to me or have there say

 

[OneKiss]

I think everyone should do there own research before using these gambling websites, I tried doing my research earlier and every report I see on runestake is ''Resolved'' and very difficult to find, I ask this report to not be labelled as ''Resolved'' or attempt to try hide it from other people who are trying to do research

This thread is a great thread for people to read and let people know what they are getting into if they decide to use runestake as it comes from a real customer, providing real feedback and possibly a very real report, even if it's not being taken serious.

And just because a sponsor doesn't like it, then it should not be hidden and burried among many other threads

 

[OneKiss]

Bad trading practices - Trade with caution the rules say
Was runestake showing signs of bad trading practices?

If so, why is it not allowed to enforce questions to find out if these bad trading practices were only bad trading practices and not intent to scam

Why am i not allowed to ask for evidence gold was being looked for? Why are they allowed to get away with not having to step up and take responsibility for cashouts

Oh I know why

 

[President]

Hi good friends, thank you for your patience.

In this report, @OneKiss claimed that @Runestake performed bad trading practices and an intended scam.

----
Facts:

1. OneKiss won a bet on RuneStake and was owed an 18b cash-out
2. He tried to claim his cash-out during Jagex working hours
3. Exclusively wanted to do neutral trades. Refused to do premium trades, and refused to do snippet trades. Image 1.; Image 2.; [redacted]
4. He consequently gambled away his winnings after approximately 7 hours
5. In the meantime, OneKiss approached me and I advised him to open up a report to hasten his pay-out. He refused to do so and only opened a report after losing the 18b claim.

----
The rules for bad trading practices and scamming can be found here: The Official Sythe.org Rules

Bad trading practices are punishable with a TWC, see also: "you may receive a TWC for poor trading practices."
An (attempted) scam is punishable with a ban and a DNT, see also: "Scamming and any suspicious behavior including attempting to scam results in a temporary ban based on the severity of the offense and a DNT."
----
Ruling:

1. Bad trading practices: in principle, a customer with a claim is owed his dues. In this situation, the question at hand is whether RuneStake not honouring OneKisses' request and the relevant context constitutes a bad trading practice. To answer this question, the relevant circumstances must be considered. Relevant circumstances are:

• Most importantly, a 18b pay-out is big and multiple gold-sellers and gambling platforms have reported bans in the past months. Hence why liquidity is lower. This is substantiated by the fact that even RuneStake's biggest competitor RuneHall confirms this. Further evidence of the 18b pay-out being very large for this market's standard will be posted in a deleted post below.
• A lot of RuneStake employees were sleeping as it was night for them
• OneKiss refused to be paid in premium or snippets. In other words, he wavered his option to be paid out quicker, even though it comes at the cost of 5%.
• OneKiss waited when I asked him to open a report. By the point he had created the report, he had lost his claim, meaning that we cannot objectively verify if RuneStake really did not have the means to pay him out or not.
• OneKiss claims that other customers were being paid out. I find this proportional action by RuneStake, because not paying other (smaller) customers out might have caused a big queue, frustrating multiple users, instead of one.
• OneKiss complains about communication being bad. This does not warrant a TWC.
  
  
• It is, however, hindering that RuneStake did not post an announcement of liquidity being limited. Users should know what they can expect to cash-out at once. This does not warrant a TWC in itself, but it is something I would like to see RuneStake work on. Transparency is very important, especially in the gambling-sector.

2. Attempted scam: I found no evidence (that can be considered a lead) for a scam-attempt, as OneKiss had already lost the money he was owed within 7 hours and does not have a claim.

Advice:

OneKiss: You have a gambling problem. We talked about this in discord, and it is very good that you, yourself, acknowledge that you have this problem. I advised you to work on fixing this. I advise you to take time-off from gambling and seek professional help.

Runestake: It can be found here that RuneStake were hindered by slow pay-outs and bad communication surrounding this not so long ago. Please work on your transparency in regard to liquidity as mentioned.

Thank you for reading friends and have a wonderful day

 

[OneKiss]

[resolved]

Changing report to just report for the ruling done on the runestake and have another opinion

Response to ruling

1. Bad trading practices: in principle, a customer with a claim is owed his dues. In this situation, the question at hand is whether RuneStake not honouring OneKisses' request and the relevant context constitutes a bad trading practice. To answer this question, the relevant circumstances must be considered. Relevant circumstances are:

• Most importantly, a 18b pay-out is big and multiple gold-sellers and gambling platforms have reported bans in the past months. Hence why liquidity is lower. This is substantiated by the fact that even RuneStake's biggest competitor RuneHall confirms this. Further evidence of the 18b pay-out being very large for this market's standard will be posted in a deleted post below.
• A lot of RuneStake employees were sleeping as it was night for them
• OneKiss refused to be paid in premium or snippets. In other words, he wavered his option to be paid out quicker, even though it comes at the cost of 5%.
• OneKiss waited when I asked him to open a report. By the point he had created the report, he had lost his claim, meaning that we cannot objectively verify if RuneStake really did not have the means to pay him out or not.
• OneKiss claims that other customers were being paid out. I find this proportional action by RuneStake, because not paying other (smaller) customers out might have caused a big queue, frustrating multiple users, instead of one.
• OneKiss complains about communication being bad. This does not warrant a TWC.
  
  
• It is, however, hindering that RuneStake did not post an announcement of liquidity being limited. Users should know what they can expect to cash-out at once. This does not warrant a TWC in itself, but it is something I would like to see RuneStake work on. Transparency is very important, especially in the gambling-sector.

Point 1, irrelevant she could of bought the gold off me and used it to cash me out or just bought tokens

Point 2, Chloe wasn't sleeping, she was the cashier and the manager

Point 3, Sure, could of paid 5% but still I'd of been taking 200ms and it's not very ''urgent'' if im still waiting for other customers to cash in

Point 4, You wouldn't enforce the questions I asked runestake to actually be answered so you couldn't verify this

Point 5, I never claimed this and no other customers were being paid out anything over 200m at that time

Point 6, Bad communication might not warrant TWC when put so vaguely, but all 3 owners were online, talking, showing on and offline on discord for hours, talking, doing announcements, cashier on shift was on and ignored my messages and did not talk in chat or try approach me to explain the situation, I was a stranded new user not knowing what was happening









2. Attempted scam: I found no evidence (that can be considered a lead) for a scam-attempt, as OneKiss had already lost the money he was owed within 7 hours and does not have a claim.

• Chloe avoided contact with me with solutions such as me selling ingame gold to her to cash me out
• Chloe did not speak for 7 hours until the report was made, she was supposed to be incharge of this
• Chloe or runestake can also not provide evidence of actually looking to stock gold for me
  
• How can they say they are looking for gold, but they aren't really nor letting customers know that the situation, how is this not bad trading practices or attempted scam if they cant provide the evidence