[Resolved]

[james clinton]

snorelax discord id: 292804879859056643
Snorelax
Snorlax
Snorlax promised me he would complete my order within 8 days a level 3 to mith gloves and dt with sub quests skills, It is now day 4-5 and he has done nothing on the account but 35 mage 50 range no quests less than 1 hours work a day he overcharged me a price for it and when asked for a refund before the order had started and he refused to do so. seems like this person is greedy and taking on orders collecting the gp but can't complete them.

 

Hello James,

Thanks for making this report.

I'll address each of your claims stepwise so you can understand what is going on, as well as explain my side.

1) Yes, I did agree on a completion time for lvl 3 to mithril gloves with DT completed. However, this agreed upon timeline has not been completed yet, so I am struggling to find how this can remotely be perceived as a "scam".

2) I still have multiple days to complete your order. My workers have penalties for completing work late, and they are very aware of the timelines they are given.

3) It's funny to me that the basis of your claim is that I am "overly greedy". You say I take orders but I cannot complete them.

In the past few days alone I have gotten multiple accounts to 99 RC on a level 3, gotten many accounts from lvl 3 to bgloves+lunars+MM2, completed 2 lvl 3 (basically) to quest capes, and have many customers that routinely use my services because they find them to be WELL under market price.

4) You bring up price with me yet YOU agreed to it. I did not force you, coerce you, or threaten you to take on an order with me. I was fully transparent about what the price was upfront and YOU accepted, made the transaction, and paid for it. Buyer's remorse is not my fault.

5) You accepted my ToS which specifically state:

"2. Limited Refunds Once we have started your order, no refunds will be granted unless there is an issue within 12 hours of starting the account training or leveling."

There was no issue with this order. This applies to times when a) A worker physically cannot complete an order due to illness, family problems, or internet issues. An more so, for the automated services I used to offer.

-----

I totally agree that it seems that your order has been slower than others, and I am speaking with my worker on Discord on my other monitor about it this moment as I write this message.

While I think this report is more than premature considering no one was scammed, I think it does merit a discussion with my workers to figure out the root cause.

Thanks for opening, and keep in mind there is still time to complete your order.

 

[james clinton]

OK well. Firstly when I requested a refund, the order had not been started and was stated by you it was "starting" - your ToS that I 'agreed' to states "no refunds will be granted unless there is an issue within 12 hours of starting the account training or leveling". Take a big note of "within 12 hours of STARTING". he told me it will be started as I requested the refund? I guess this ToS needs revising as I followed within guidelines and still was rejected a refund.

Secondly, until I posted this report, there was no work done on my account other than 45 prayer (5 days into the job). I'm not trying to defraud you but the fact it took a scam report to get any progress done is absurd, as well as a clear rejection to refunding after your ToS states a 12 hour from "starting".

As far as I'm concerned for your workers and other jobs, that has nothing to do with me. I don't know why it's mentioned, same with you saying "well under market price" as we both know it's not. The job in question (mine) is poorly managed. I appreciate you refer to old jobs to boost credibility but lets focus on the issue at hand.

The 'scam' is more coming from you breaking ToS, failure to do any work for 5 days on an "8 day" estimated job (untill I reported today) and I think it's more clear with how you talk "buyer's remorse is not my fault", true colors are showing. Refused a refund and it took a scam report to start progressing my account. :

This is becoming more clear to him taking too many orders as there's an additional 5 days added to a standard 3 day job, assuming so he can take my money, have the workers complete their other jobs for 5 days then finally start my 3 day job.

 

Your first statement is 100% wrong, and you are adding things that never happened. If you would please screenshot where I said "starting" as you quote it. All of my orders start within 24 hours, which I told you, and you replied with "all good" <--- that is the truth and I can provide screenshots if need be. (edit - I added anyway in the fifth paragraph)

Your second and last comments are also false, based on time zones my workers stopped working a few hours ago and the report was posted AFTER that. Neither me, nor my workers, saw this report as I woke up about an hour ago and responded immediately after I saw it.

I 100% agree that your order is CURRENTLY slower than most, but please explain how I scammed when 1) nothing was stolen 2) I am still within my timeline and 3) there was no issue that was abnormal from how I normally get accounts trained (pertaining to TOS)

"The 'scam' is more coming from you breaking ToS, failure to do any work for 5 days on an "8 day" estimated job (untill I reported today) and I think it's more clear with how you talk "buyer's remorse is not my fault", true colors are showing. Refused a refund and it took a scam report to start progressing my account."

1) ToS have not been broken. There is a 24 hour lag period between the point I talk with my head worker / manager and then assignment occurs after that. Most of my workers work a job during the day, so then they start at night, hence why it takes 10-24 hours for a username and password in my hands to get into a worker's hands when they are at a computer and can log into an account. You literally said "all good" when I explained this simply. @UK - Discord (gyazo.com)

2) Please find the "issue" as you call it/it states in my ToS. You acknowledge the lag time between giving me info and starting and say it's fine. Then work started. There was no IRL issue I was made aware of as to why the worker cannot or could not complete the work we agreed on in 8 days, hence why you are not eligible for a refund.

Irrelevant to the report, but to your point of,

"As far as I'm concerned for your workers and other jobs, that has nothing to do with me. I don't know why it's mentioned, same with you saying "well under market price" as we both know it's not. The job in question (mine) is poorly managed. I appreciate you refer to old jobs to boost credibility but lets focus on the issue at hand."


I'm glad you think you know OSRS market prices better than me. Please find me someone else who offers Lvl 3 to quest cape for $179 or 1-99 RC via GoTR (items kept) for $149

 

[james clinton]

YOUR TOS:
"no refunds will be granted unless there is an issue within 12 HOURS OF STARTING the account training or leveling"

I don't get why you'd make a tos, stating you refund within 12 hours of "STARTING" but refuse me before the job had even began? In all fairness I said "all good" more as a, 'shit i've paid now - do I make a fuss and get my order messed up?' but as you've taken 5 days to do any work from payment any way. Can't get much more messed up.

"ToS have not been broken. There is a 24 hour lag period between the point I talk with my head worker / manager and then assignment occurs after that. Most of my workers work a job during the day, so then they start at night, hence why it takes 10-24 hours for a username and password in my hands to get into a worker's hands when they are at a computer and can log into an account. "

This is listed where? on the services thread I used, it simply states if there's an issue within 12 hours of starting. a refund will be granted? also referenced by yourself in this thread. You stated I agreed to the ToS and quoted the line, now I've disproven it there's suddenly more to the ToS?

The ToS written by you, clearly states that if there is an issue within 12 hours of starting... which there was (over pricing, didn't start for 4 days till i requested a refund, poorly managed jobs).

And appreciate you realize your advertisement of sales is irrelevant to the thread and my issue, cheers.

 

Yes, I am glad you firmly grasp my ToS. Here are the facts:

1) Your acc info was in pipeline to the worker who was assigned to your account (the 24 hours I have mentioned a plethora of times and YOU confirmed was okay).
2) I am quite happy to keep reiterating this, "12 HOURS OF STARTING the account training or leveling". You clearly grasp the words but do not quite fully understand the meaning. If this is the ONLY time that you are eligible for a refund, you are not eligible for a refund BEFORE (because acc info is in pipeline and worker has accepted ToS for that job) or AFTER (because account has been started past the 12 hour mark) that mentioned time frame.

"on the services thread I used, it simply states if there's an issue within 12 hours of starting" -- Yes... once again, STARTING (not prior / not after having started). Verbage here - starting means after the account has been trained or leveled (like ToS state) which ≠prior to starting (which you are grasping at, after having agreed to the point I made about it taking about a day to reach the STARTING period)

"You stated I agreed to the ToS and quoted the line, now I've disproven it there's suddenly more to the ToS?" -- Nope. I am referencing the full ToS you agreed to. nothing was added or removed

"The ToS written by you, clearly states that if there is an issue within 12 hours of starting... which there was (over pricing, didn't start for 4 days till i requested a refund, poorly managed jobs)." -- Over pricing is not an issue within 12 hours of starting, making that point comes from a place of nothing but delusion. And the time you requested a refund was not FOUR days into the service... grabbed that number from thin air. The below pictures will show it actually was around ONE day (less given timestamps).

Acc info sent: #65-pure | Snorlax Skilling - Discord (gyazo.com)

Request of refund: @UK - Discord (gyazo.com)

Upon further thought, this message ignores the fact that I do in fact get most of my customers *purely* because of my value. "And appreciate you realize your advertisement of sales is irrelevant to the thread and my issue, cheers." -- So I will actually lay claim that my value in services is pertinent to the report as one of your main arguments surrounds greed (why offer low prices if I am greedy?) or being overpriced (how come most of my customers are continuous because they shop around and see I am the lowest priced by far?)

This will be the final message I send. You seem to ignore the obvious fact of the matter in that there is still time to complete your order, and you have not been scammed as nothing has been taken from you in the slightest. You can make an argument all you want that a Sythe report is the only fuel I have to finish the account, but that is an objectively incorrect statement as all work from the prior night was completed before this post was made AND there is still time for me to complete this account. Neither I nor my workers saw this before going to bed.

One more thing to consider, 8 days was not a FIXED timeframe. Here is the message you agreed to - @UK - Discord (gyazo.com)

I hope the Sythe Mods can make the decision on this using the facts from screenshots, rather than the propaganda from your fabricated numbers/timeline and baseless claims (other than that the account was moving at a slow pace which is 100% true and is the reason I am talking with the worker now)

 

[james clinton]

So, refunds are applicable only during when the service has started but not before you've hired a worker? Sounds like you're making this up as you go along.

Bottom line is

Your tos states that a refund will be given within 12 hours of starting the account.

I messaged you prior to the 12 hour grace period (you said so yourself it's being started today, it could have been started an hour ago. I'm still way within the 12 hour limit), the logic you're saying is I had to wait 1 minute into your workers progression to request a refund?.

I don't think any more responses are necessary, you wrote a ToS. I asked you way before 12 hours had even began (the job had not started)
and you went against your ToS.

I'd like a refund and you to reflect on your ToS.

 

So, refunds are applicable only during when the service has started but not before you've hired a worker? Sounds like you're making this up as you go along.

Bottom line is

Your tos states that a refund will be given within 12 hours of starting the account.

I messaged you prior to the 12 hour grace period (you said so yourself it's being started today, it could have been started an hour ago. I'm still way within the 12 hour limit), the logic you're saying is I had to wait 1 minute into your workers progression to request a refund?.

I don't think any more responses are necessary, you wrote a ToS. I asked you way before 12 hours had even began (the job had not started)
and you went against your ToS.

I'd like a refund and you to reflect on your ToS.

Gosh I just have to reply because it is so utterly wrong. The worker was hired and agreed to ToS. Because of their life situations it is not uncommon for it to take 12-24 hours (depending on time of day) for them to ACTUALLY log on to the account. So yes, with their terms agreed to between them and I, they are set into the business they will be completing. And you keep referencing this 12 hour period. Like I mentioned before, it was mainly for my automated services where being on a new ip and running automated programs often was the top time for a blackmark, if one did occur. It is still applicable to times where the worker will not physically be able to finish on time or take the order for whatever external reason (which is not the case for your order as there are still days to complete it)

My Tos: no refunds will be granted unless there is an issue within 12 hours of starting the account training or leveling.

The account training or leveling had not started. Please put LOTS of focus into the wording.

1) I specifically say "within 12 hours of starting the account training or leveling" as there is the lagtime before a worker is acutally ON the account (like in this case and every other case which YOU agreed to)

2) if there is "AN ISSUE", BUT there is NO issue. There are days left to complete this account and I have not been made aware of ANY external factor that is still in the process of hindering the timeline YOU agreed to.

 

[james clinton]

Again, bottom line being

The ToS states
"no refunds will be granted unless there is an issue within 12 hours of starting the account training or leveling."

You're telling me there's no issue?
" if there is "AN ISSUE", BUT there is NO issue"

Nowhere does it state refunds are considered based on the issue, nor does it state you need a specific type of issue to request a refund.
It states if you ask for a refund within 12 hours of the worker starting. it will be granted.

I am not interested in the agreements between your workers, you hold responsibility for the job I paid for, based on your ToS. I don't know nor see the relevancy in talking about agreements had with workers.

As far as I'm concerned, I asked for a refund. You said the worker will start today, nothing about them having the details for 24 hours blabla, I mean if this is all becoming a problem when requesting a refund, maybe it should be included when buying services from you?

Final say, I would like a refund and for you to revise your ToS.
I don't see any need to go back and forth with you any further, let the mods decide.

 

Hello,

I took a lot at the ToS and get both points you two made. I think it can definitely cause confusion.
From my understanding Snorlax has since altered his ToS to make it clearer.
Regardless, I was told the order was going well and given the progress already made I think it's unfair to force a refund now.

@james clinton you were quoted an estimated time frame prior to the order. I believe we're currently at the 8th day so I'm hopeful the order is close to completion. @Snorlax could you give us an update here please.

Snorlax is not obligated to show linear progress during the order. If he/the worker would like to barely do anything at first and then grind it all at last, that's fine. I do however think in this case it would be beneficial for Snorlax to give appropriate time frames. I'll be waiting for an update.

 

[james clinton]

thank you, Zora, I agree that he has started making progress and its unfair for a refund now. it seems the work left to do on the account may take longer than another day if he had started earlier, it would have been completed in the time frame he gave me

 

The account has mithril gloves completed, avas completed, horror from the deep completed, 95% of DT quest specific stat prereqs done, MM1 done, herblore unlocked.

The things left to be done are finishing DT and MA2 cape.

Still well within the "like/about 8 day timeframe you agreed to twice"

@UK - Discord and 3 more pages - Personal - Microsoft Edge (gyazo.com)

@UK - Discord (gyazo.com)

 

Alright I'll leave this open until the order is complete as it shouldn't take much longer.
Thank you for the update.

 

[james clinton]

yeah, still waiting for the order to finish going into day 9 now I think he exaggerated how close he was from finishing, but I am assuming he will be done today if not that is absurd to take almost 10 days for some quests that can be speed ran with the skill reqs from scratch in 3-4 days, especially when I paid a price of 142m could have bought a b glove from scratch off someone else for 110m and he calls himself the cheapest.

 

Everything I said above was objectively true.

if you felt that way about the timeline and price how about you say something BEFORE sending me the payment and agreeing to it twice.

 

[james clinton]

8 days was fine but now we are past that

 

8 days was fine but now we are past that

If you look at the message I conveniently posted 5 above this, it shows you providing written confirmation (TWICE) that around 8 days was fine. Still well within that agreed upon time-frame.

 

Update: DT is done, last needed thing is MA2 cape and the 5 magic levels to get to 60 to start that process

 

72 magic done and all 3 capes / spells unlocked and completed

 

[james clinton]

your exaggerating your on 70 magic not 72 please provide screenshots