Suicide.

Yea, most of which comes from depression. Judging people on a minority is called stereotyping ignorance.

 

[Naxious]

Last time I checked this thread was about SUICIDE and not depression, pls we get ur points about depression we are talking about suicide here

You do know that depression leads to suicide too right

 

[Trin]

Yea, most of which comes from depression. Judging people on a minority is called stereotyping ignorance.

Most people who commit suicide don't want to die. They just want to stop hurting.

There are many reasons for one to want to commit suicide, they're depressed, crying out for help, impulsive, made a mistake, psychotic, or they have a philosophical desire to die.

As for "stereotyping ignorance", that's not a true word phrase. But, I understand what you are trying to say. "A stereotype isn't a sign of ignorance but stereotyping is." Stereotyping is ignorance because you automatically assume that one person is the same as the others.

Great examples of ignorant stereotypes:
“All blondes are stupid.” “All Asian’s are great at math.” “All black people like fried chicken.” "All depressed people commit suicide." "Committing suicide is a sign of weakness." "Depression leads to suicide."



I am trying to understand what kind of discussion you are going for here. Suicide, depression, judgmental people, stereotyping, ignorance or all?

 

[Stickly]

Most people who commit suicide don't want to die. They just want to stop hurting.

There are many reasons for one to want to commit suicide, they're depressed, crying out for help, impulsive, made a mistake, psychotic, or they have a philosophical desire to die.

Correct, but they also don't have a desire to live. Obvious enough. (Not meant to sound rude)

I am trying to understand what kind of discussion you are going for here. Suicide, depression, judgmental people, stereotyping, ignorance or all?

Depression takes a large part in suicide. I'm assuming you read a fair amount, so as I said in the OP, I don't only want to talk about suicide, so roaming off topic a bit is fine, as long as it stays near the point. Everything above is to help prove points, well, for the most part.

 

[Trin]

Correct, but they also don't have a desire to live. Obvious enough. (Not meant to sound rude)

There are many reasons for one to want to commit suicide, they're depressed, crying out for help, impulsive, made a mistake, psychotic, or they have a philosophical desire to die.

I highly doubt a person just wakes up one day and says, "I think I'll just kill myself today." This is why I said the bold.

Depression takes a large part in suicide. I'm assuming you read a fair amount, so as I said in the OP, I don't only want to talk about suicide, so roaming off topic a bit is fine, as long as it stays near the point. Everything above is to help prove points, well, for the most part.

Yeah, I understood it the first time I read it. But, the issue here is the fact that if one person makes a comment about one topic but another person comes in focused on another but tries to "argue" against your point makes it a scrambled discussion that goes nowhere but bickering--not debating. Not everyone on Sythe are poignant about stating what they are discussing. Personally, I am allergic to idiotic, moronic, stupid people who can't [for the most part] formulate a complete sentence or thought. (definitely not being rude.) So, what is the point that we need to stay near in the discussion if it's not to only talk about suicide?

 

[Stickly]

I highly doubt a person just wakes up one day and says, "I think I'll just kill myself today." This is why I said the bold.

I'm sure it has happened. I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish by saying here.

Yeah, I understood it the first time I read it. But, the issue here is the fact that if one person makes a comment about one topic but another person comes in focused on another but tries to "argue" against your point makes it a scrambled discussion that goes nowhere but bickering--not debating. Not everyone on Sythe are poignant about stating what they are discussing.

I think you're just rambling. If you can't discuss multiple things at once, that's just sad. This isn't a debate thread, but more of intellectual discussion, as said in the OP. Maybe not the best place for you to be. There are multiple points we're talking about here, all around the idea of suicide.

Personally, I am allergic to idiotic, moronic, stupid people who can't [for the most part] formulate a complete sentence or thought.

Hypocrite.

 

I know what both words mean. And I understand suicide more than most people here.

When people call it weak or dumb, it's only instinctual to back it up with showing that suicidal thoughts which mostly stem from depression come from a mental illness. This isn't any different from a physical illness in that one cannot wake up the next day and overcome it. When people use ad hominem and dance around the subject, that's bickering; I was reiterating my point that still remained and wasn't countered. That's generally how a debate works, right?

Anywho, point still stands.

 

[Naxious]

I'm sure it has happened. I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish by saying here.



I think you're just rambling. If you can't discuss multiple things at once, that's just sad. This isn't a debate thread, but more of intellectual discussion, as said in the OP. Maybe not the best place for you to be. There are multiple points we're talking about here, all around the idea of suicide.

Most people that commit scuicide are hypocrites

 

Most people that commit scuicide are hypocrites

Only properly thought out, rational arguments are allowed in this forum
We don't care if you LIKE Bush or THINK Global warming is man made.
For example, in the thread "Is God real?"; "I think God is real" would be unacceptable whereas "I think God is not real because X research suggests Y therefore Z" would be acceptable.

Elaborate

 

[Josh0is0here]

For starters, what are your thoughts on suicide?

Suicidal thoughts, also known as suicidal ideation are thoughts about how to kill oneself, which can range from a detailed plan to a fleeting consideration and does not include the final act of killing oneself. The majority of people who experience suicidal ideation do not carry it through. Some may, however, make suicide attempts. Some suicidal ideations can be deliberately planned to fail or be discovered, while others might be carefully planned to succeed.

Suicidal thoughts, aren’t a joke and I take this thread extremely serious. I have had numerous people that I have known over my course of a Resident Assistant attempt suicidal or had serious thoughts of going through with such acts. I wish more people will reach other and try and help rather than say your being selfish. I was tempted not to respond at all to this thread because there is a pretty high chance that I will come off as a power abusing mod. But, frankly I read this whole thread and thought this topic wasn’t something for all material.

If someone wants to kill themselves, let them. There are plenty of people who want to live, so we should worry about helping them first. I don't know if that's the right way I want to put it, but it sums up a bunch. Sure, there's 'clinical depression' and people want help, and want to talk to people. There's the attention seekers, then the over-dramatic people who just want to kill themselves due to having some life problems. Some people won't listen and won't help themselves. Some people want help, and a purpose in life, those are the people we should try and save. Instead we have facilities that parents put their kids in to "prevent suicide and get them help" which from my knowledge, it mostly doesn't help, and in a lot of cases, does the opposite. Helplines are a different story though to me, because people call them when they want/need someone to talk too. Maybe they can't talk to their parents, or don't have friends they can talk to seriously. I'm not sure how much money goes into the said facilities, but the money could be used to actually help people who WANT to live. People who want to commit suicide sicken me, due to the reason that people want to live and they can think so seriously about losing it.

This is an easy statement to make, unless you ever know someone who has attempted suicide. Chances are even if they ever had, you probably wouldn’t know. Most times people thinking about it will never tell another person because they don’t want to bother other people. You speak of “facilitates” if you are referring to a mental health hospital for the mentally unstable then you are very mistaken. I would actually call into question your sources since this is something for all. Because I have personally witness my best friend as well as others make a full recovery after spending a week, month, or even up to a year in a facility.

Your statement about suicide hotlines confuses me, you are happy they help but want money spend on people who want to live? I think your logic is very flawed the whole point of a suicide hotline is to change people minds so they know they aren’t alone. I will agree that more needs to be done in treating people with mental health issues however reducing funding to working organizations would be a huge stop in the wrong direction. This thread was reopened against my wishes, however if it instills a factual conversation on suicide without resulting in rule breaking than I will allow it. Although, I expect a huge change in post quality from all sides. This is something for all, where opinion are backed up by sources and fact. If you can handle adding something worthy to the conversation then don’t bother posting.

PS: I may have overreacted by locking the thread, however suicide is a very serious issue to me and Sythe.org community. For those of you that don’t know a moderator Shawn_ committed suicide a few years back. Therefore, if anyone ever needs someone to talk to I would strongly recommend the http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/.

 

[gamblingbob]

Every person is given a life to live. Honestly a failed suicide attempt is the best thing that could happen to a suicidal person. I agree these "Treatment centers" are a waste of money in some cases, but they do help certain people. My friend was depressed because he dropped out of college, had a failed suicide attempt and got his life back on track.

 

[ughh..]

"There is a reason for everything you do"
Wow! Breaking News!

Also people that don't seek help should be able to decide what to do with their life and maybe (dare I say) receive outside help to end their life. The people that reach out obviously have hope (even if its small) that there is another way and can receive the care they need. I don't understand forcing someone to change or people prying into someones life. When someone does not want something it usually ends up with resentment or goes unappreciated. I do get that there are some cases where those stubborn people get a wake up call after a failed attempt but is it really the majority?

Another thing is doesn't everyone have access to something that will guarentee death? If you fail does it mean you decided to go through an unsure method meaning you still had hope and doubted your choice?

This is for people that don't have a medical condition where they should obviously get treatment

 

This is an easy statement to make, unless you ever know someone who has attempted suicide. Chances are even if they ever had, you probably wouldn’t know. Most times people thinking about it will never tell another person because they don’t want to bother other people. You speak of “facilitates” if you are referring to a mental health hospital for the mentally unstable then you are very mistaken. I would actually call into question your sources since this is something for all. Because I have personally witness my best friend as well as others make a full recovery after spending a week, month, or even up to a year in a facility.

He was referring to correctional facilities that are extreme, not medical facilities (said earlier on).

The more & more people go on about the rules of SFA and so on the more they're being hypocritical and making the thread worse. Let's drop it and stop mentioning it, like seriously. SFA is hardly used so having extremely high standards just kills the section, if someone puts thought in to their post and wants a discussion it should be left to be when the section is suffering.

So if I'm not mistaken what you should be answering is

• What do you think of suicide/suicidal people & why - there has been debate back and forth of whether it's selfish, weak, just part of nature etc
• What you think about extreme correctional facilities that treat it like a character trait rather than a state of mental illness
• Do you think more money & resources should be spent on hotlines / do you think hotlines are useful and do their job?
• The rest of the OP is a personal opinion backed up by an explanation of why. It lacks resources and factual evidence but that doesn't make it unacceptable.

Enough of the SFA rules & related discussion, that's what's ruining the thread.

 

[Trin]

I see that MY post keeps getting removed, however, Stickly's doesn't. This IS Something for All. So unless he can "elaborate" his claims against me by trying to make a Spam Forum statement against me (personal attacks) that are not remotely part of the discussion; yet an opportunity to just attack me, then he clearly doesn't know enough about the topic of his own thread, the field, institutions or the minds of people who commit suicide, let alone what I was trying to convey to him.

I'm sure it has happened. I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish by saying here.

I think you're just rambling. If you can't discuss multiple things at once, that's just sad. This isn't a debate thread, but more of intellectual discussion, as said in the OP. Maybe not the best place for you to be. There are multiple points we're talking about here, all around the idea of suicide.

Hypocrite.

Apparently you don't know what it means for someone to have a philosophical desire to die or to have a philosophical desire to not want to live. People don't just wake up one morning and say they are going to kill themselves. There is always a cause and affect.

I ask you what is your point when you say we need to stay near the point, then you come back to accuse me of rambling and incapable of holding an intellectual discussion about multiple topics. So, if this is not a debate thread then it must be a thread to argue at each other. It's hardly an intellectual discussion when clearly a few people have attacked one or the other based on one's opinion. An intellectual discussion is rational rather than emotional.

Calling me a hypocrite is personal attack and off topic, especially for Something for All.

Considering the facts that I have studied enough in this field of Psychology, practiced in it and have witnessed enough deaths that I can stand in general, whether it be accidental, attempts, I was just too late to get there on time before it happened and worse--the random, "I'm sorry" POW death right before your eyes. In 2011, my best friend actually asked for my help to kill her because she had been battling Leukemia off and on for 3yrs and was ready to just end it. Careful to whom you are saying it to when your make accusations. Don't ever TRY to insult my intelligence; you haven't lived long enough or learned enough to earn that right.

 

what're you achieving by reposting this spiel that doesn't contribute anything and only does what you're criticisng him of doing

 

[Stickly]

For starters, what are your thoughts on suicide?

Suicidal thoughts, also known as suicidal ideation are thoughts about how to kill oneself, which can range from a detailed plan to a fleeting consideration and does not include the final act of killing oneself. The majority of people who experience suicidal ideation do not carry it through. Some may, however, make suicide attempts. Some suicidal ideations can be deliberately planned to fail or be discovered, while others might be carefully planned to succeed.

Suicidal thoughts, aren’t a joke and I take this thread extremely serious. I have had numerous people that I have known over my course of a Resident Assistant attempt suicidal or had serious thoughts of going through with such acts. I wish more people will reach other and try and help rather than say your being selfish. I was tempted not to respond at all to this thread because there is a pretty high chance that I will come off as a power abusing mod. But, frankly I read this whole thread and thought this topic wasn’t something for all material.

This is an easy statement to make, unless you ever know someone who has attempted suicide. Chances are even if they ever had, you probably wouldn’t know. Most times people thinking about it will never tell another person because they don’t want to bother other people. You speak of “facilitates” if you are referring to a mental health hospital for the mentally unstable then you are very mistaken. I would actually call into question your sources since this is something for all. Because I have personally witness my best friend as well as others make a full recovery after spending a week, month, or even up to a year in a facility.

Your statement about suicide hotlines confuses me, you are happy they help but want money spend on people who want to live? I think your logic is very flawed the whole point of a suicide hotline is to change people minds so they know they aren’t alone. I will agree that more needs to be done in treating people with mental health issues however reducing funding to working organizations would be a huge stop in the wrong direction. This thread was reopened against my wishes, however if it instills a factual conversation on suicide without resulting in rule breaking than I will allow it. Although, I expect a huge change in post quality from all sides. This is something for all, where opinion are backed up by sources and fact. If you can handle adding something worthy to the conversation then don’t bother posting.

PS: I may have overreacted by locking the thread, however suicide is a very serious issue to me and Sythe.org community. For those of you that don’t know a moderator Shawn_ committed suicide a few years back. Therefore, if anyone ever needs someone to talk to I would strongly recommend the http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/.

I'm sorry if you're taking this all as a joke, but I definitely am not. I want peoples honest, and intelligent opinions. If you've read through the post, you'd see I do know things about suicide, including have friends who have done so. I was always there for them in the past if they wanted it, of course, for the most part, they didn't. I've lost precious friends. I won't go into anymore detail.
Roary seems to have answered everything else.

Every person is given a life to live. Honestly a failed suicide attempt is the best thing that could happen to a suicidal person. I agree these "Treatment centers" are a waste of money in some cases, but they do help certain people. My friend was depressed because he dropped out of college, had a failed suicide attempt and got his life back on track.

This can be true, it can also ruin peoples' lives more, and in which, entails another attempt.

"There is a reason for everything you do"
Wow! Breaking News!

Also people that don't seek help should be able to decide what to do with their life and maybe (dare I say) receive outside help to end their life. The people that reach out obviously have hope (even if its small) that there is another way and can receive the care they need. I don't understand forcing someone to change or people prying into someones life. When someone does not want something it usually ends up with resentment or goes unappreciated. I do get that there are some cases where those stubborn people get a wake up call after a failed attempt but is it really the majority?

Another thing is doesn't everyone have access to something that will guarentee death? If you fail does it mean you decided to go through an unsure method meaning you still had hope and doubted your choice?

This is for people that don't have a medical condition where they should obviously get treatment

I have the same opinion, and was worried I was just gonna get bashed on for having such an opinion(which seems it hasn't happened as much as I thought) so I hesitated making the thread.

I'm sure a lot of people don't want to just drink chemicals, most people would not succeed with a knife. There are a lot of other things, but the will of the body can overtake the mind, and vice versa.

So if I'm not mistaken what you should be answering is

• What do you think of suicide/suicidal people & why - there has been debate back and forth of whether it's selfish, weak, just part of nature etc
• What you think about extreme correctional facilities that treat it like a character trait rather than a state of mental illness
• Do you think more money & resources should be spent on hotlines / do you think hotlines are useful and do their job?
• The rest of the OP is a personal opinion backed up by an explanation of why. It lacks resources and factual evidence but that doesn't make it unacceptable.

Enough of the SFA rules & related discussion, that's what's ruining the thread.

Thanks.

 

[Nick 91]

This is a hard topic to talk about, I think a lot of selfishness is involved because suicide impacts too many people permanently. I can't speak for anyone, that's not even my firm belief. I guess it depends on the case.

 

[Josh0is0here]

• What do you think of suicide/suicidal people & why - there has been debate back and forth of whether it's selfish, weak, just part of nature etc
There are arguments in favor of allowing an individual to choose between life and suicide. Those in favor of suicide as a personal choice reject the thought that suicide is always or usually irrational, but is instead a solution to real problems; a line of last resort that can legitimately be taken when the alternative is considered worse. They believe that no being should be made to suffer unnecessarily, and suicide provides an escape from suffering. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_suicide states there are four main types of mind sets. Personally, I believe it’s a disheartening when someone takes their own life, but I tend not to judge because we rarely ever know the whole story.

• What you think about extreme correctional facilities that treat it like a character trait rather than a state of mental illness
I actually have no knowledge on this topic, and if someone could explain it to me I would me more than happy to learn.

• Do you think more money & resources should be spent on hotlines / do you think hotlines are useful and do their job?
Yes, those hotlines are some people last resort and they tend to be very successful.

 

[Naxious]

Why should more money be spent? Is not about money but their lives. We can help but if they don't wanna live, what can we do?

 

[Stickly]

Why should more money be spent? Is not about money but their lives. We can help but if they don't wanna live, what can we do?

I'm saying less more should be spent on facilities and used for actually people who want to live. Sure, they help people sometimes, but a lot of the time, kids are forced into them.

Josh I'll answer to you in a bit, seems I hit post.