Azie DNT and subsequent 'rare permanent ban'

I think this situation could have been handled better or received better if staff did everything in their power to try to prevent what happened before his ban. If you look through my post, I mentioned SEVERAL reports and even commented on other areas where it shouldn't have been "hey you owe this guy" or "added to his dnt." Even after his DNT, it seemed like nothing was done? Azie definitely wasn't active, I've watched his activity for the past month, I even made a fuss about it in the discord. 1 week after his DNT was given and he had no cooperation with staff? Ban/Public warning to all to secure their accounts/remove wealth, etc. You're a staff member, you know what I'm getting at. Y'all have done this before, I'm not tryna tell you guys how to do your job.

If you did message EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO EVER BOUGHT AN ACCOUNT FROM AZIE then I am somewhat content with that, but the issue remains that because staff overly trusted someone who PROVED he was capable of being untrustworthy months before he was finally banned is just alarming and absolutely ridiculous.

A majority of the staff team, especially the administrators, have been apart of the staff team for a multitude of years and somehow let this slip right under their nose? I mean that's just pathetic. That's not even a mistake. This is a major (and did I mention costly?) oversight which ultimately (probably) ruined some people's life (save your "they shouldn't have spent money they didn't have to spend" crap, you sound like a boomer)

 

I don't need to read the link. The entirety of that rank is literally in the name. Do Not Trade. I'm not saying people traded him after he was given it, I'm saying that people who had previously bought from him and even just generally everyone should have been warned publicly like you guys have done for so many other people, that this user was clearly taking advantage of his rank and trust and was stealing thousands back from users. This could have saved so many of those people if they had saw it a week after his DNT and figured that this guy might go for his (the buyer's) account next.

 

[Resolved]
[Resolved]
Azie
Resolved
Azie Scammed Max Cape Account I Bought
Azie scammed me!
Azie account recovery scam.
Azie recovered almost-maxed account
Azie Account recovery

I'm sure more will come but can you define mass scamming for me please? Is there a specific number someone has to reach before they're considered a threat to the community?

 

All I know is I gave Video proof that Azie had recovered an account with $8000 on it in RS3 Gold, and the gold magically vanished.

I don't use this site to troll, I don't use this site to do anything besides practice good business. Azie practiced bad business with his T.O.S which nobody saw a problem with for whatever reason.

You would think that if someone comes to you with a report with $8,000 and an ex-mod potentially scamming, you would dnt them instantly. I don't care what anyone has to say about that. The staff dnt's people over $5 unpaid dice debts etc.

Poor handling of the situation. Other than Azie, the staff is to blame.

 

After personally being instantly DNT'd while admitting to owing someone and even offering to let a mod hold the funds until I was able to trade the item, I can see how extreme favoritism was shown in this case in regards to being given a DNT/Ban, it took MULTIPLE reports for him to be given a DNT even tho in his case, account's were recovered and wealth went missing on multiple occasions, the favouritism shown to Azie allowed him to get away with these tactics on multiple occasions because he was "Trusted".

Overall i'd say the mod team is doing a great job in handling reports and corrects their mistakes on the slight chance they do make one.

But this case with Azie was handled so poorly that it allowed him to make it seem like he had "corrected" his mistakes even tho Thousands of $$$ in accounts and Gp was recovered with evidence, the sheer amount of time it took for the team to take action was based on the fact they thought he would correct his mistake, and all thought he might have he should still have been issued a DNT and notifying the users who purchased these HIGH value accounts should have be warned after the first few reports that happened in a short span of time.

But because of his status this was not done and should something like this happen in the future (I hope it does not) I believe the staff team will learn from what has happened with Azie and make the decision to take action much sooner than here regardless of status.

 

A very well-put statement. That last short paragraph is the only thing I really hope to achieve here. As I stated in my original post, I am not here to bash anyone, especially the staff. I know what it's like running a community. All I want here is for this situation to be seen as it is and for those responsible for allowing this to go on for as long as it did to understand their huge mistake and learn from it so that it doesn't happen again. Favoritism will always be in communities like this and you can't really get rid of it. What can be done, however, is equal justice in what you do to others who have done similar acts. That's how you make up for it. You can be friends with people, just don't overlook them breaking rules that you would sanction others for in a heartbeat.

Edit: I think after all of this, I've made my point and I hope that at least one or two staff members see this and understands where I'm coming from. At the staff member's discretion, this can be closed whenever.

 

KEKW

 

Right so before I start, I would like to say hi guys and I hope you are all having a peaceful lockdown and are keeping safe with whatever might be happening around you.

Now that's out the way, I have seen the odd what feels like favortism and I was actually going to write a suggestion/feedback about it but didn't know how to write it properly without sounding like a complete asshole.

So thank you to OP for writing this, as now I can at least speak out about a few things on my mind, including problems like this one with @Azie which although I do not think the staff are to blame, they could have acted way differently and I do feel this is a learning curve to be seen.

The same situation goes with my "dox" ban that I received for saying someone's name to them PRIVATELY, when in fact it wasn't doxing and yet I have proven much more information about the same opposed report and much more, and dickdesto is allowed to run free? I closed my report after 16 days of NOTHING being said, not even viewed it's pathetic.

There was a report from a few users a couple of days ago we all saw to do with gambling discords, and releasing pictures/doxes/your armpit hair on ebay for sale too. What do you know, nothing got dealt with there other than "delete comments" and "don't do this again" but if it was the average joe like me, I would of been slapped with a ban + DNT (which if you look at the thread I was going to be, until I proved they were wrong after 3 APPEALS)...

I think all in all, some stuff they are fine to handle, and then others they try not to involve themselves in, which personally if you're not going to do your role which despite I understand isn't a paid one as far as i'm aware, you shouldn't have the role at all as someone will do the hard part you wont.

Now, when I applied for a mod rank at shitbot I was asked "if a friend was to break a rule, would I punish them or if they were punished would I correct it so they could get away with it?" I said fuck no, at the end of the day you do the crime you do the time.

I think people need to understand and this isn't just to the staff - Business is business, friendships are friendships. If your friend gets pissed at you for not defending them, taking their side or not doing as they please because you have a certain opinion or authority, then they are not a friend at all.

Now enough of this shit, Az should have been slapped out of it sooner and it's just sad to see he was damaging more people in the process.

Edit - Before anyone thinks ahead of it all, I am not saying all that I am for "drama" I am simply pointing out that people do fuck up, myself included on many occasions. At the end of the day we should all be treated the same though, stop with the favour crap.

 

There seems to be an apparent miscommunication, and or misinterpretation of what transpired, alongside how and why.

Firstly, DNT for all intents and purpose, relative to the market, is a banned rank. We can argue that the users who purchased accounts of Azie were not seasoned users/informed users/were new users/etc, and as such, the DNT rank and its apparent usage/meaning was something unfamiliar to them. In saying that, I don't point fault at any of the staff for applying a DNT to Azie's account, as that follows the rules in place.

Secondly, applying a DNT to Azie's account over an outright banned account may have proven favourable for the users who were scammed (at that particular time). It was quite a precarious situation, and there was no way to ascertain with complete certainty, which way the tide would sway. By this I mean, the DNT rank, opposed to an outright banned rank may have encouraged Azie to refund the impacted users (as fundementally, that purpose of the DNT rank is inherently about wanting users to repay debts, by still being somewhat allowed to participate within the community), which would have mitigated the overall amount of damage done. So, with this in mind, I understand why a DNT was given (excluding the general forum rules). Furthermore, reputation and forum notoriety has always played a part in passing judgement on users relative to reports. Such as, staff would much rather see a user refund XX, than be discouraged/angered by a ban, and end up scamming more. Is it the most efficient approach to take? Probably not. Is it naive at times? Most definitely. However, we can only work with the tools we have.

Ultimately, Azie did not refund, and this was an extremely unfortunate situation. In hindsight, potentially more proactive measures could have been taken to minimise the overall damage.

 

Kinda shocked but saw it coming. Especially with the previous reports. To be fair almost every maxed/nearly maxed account gets recovered and that’s the sad truth.

 

Immediate rule requiring ANY and EVERY account sale to be linked to an OO with valid proof. Does not mean the account listing must be from the OO but must be traceable to an OO. Preferably (or mandatorily) a Sythe member.

Create a system of verifying OO - maybe a mandatory recovery test checked by staff or a board that is created/OMM?

Is not the first time I've seen staff abuse authority to promote their business. And then slip through the crack being allowed to lie about safety of his accounts. If not being allowed to, then just lack of awareness on other staffs part. Extremely disappointing to see multiple members of the community be hit for $2000+ each - especially at a time like this.

Plankgang, Bolt, Azie, etc. When will people learn what is important to trust? Account sales have been broken on here for long while. Little security and massive risk with every one. Azie should never have been allowed to have so many accounts sold where he forged/falsified/lied about the ownership and security.

Something I always liked and wanted was a separation of heavy market interaction when someone is staff. Like separation of church and state. It's a pretty extreme thought and I never pushed it. I just believe staff should focus on their duties and if they'd rather run a solid business then they can do that - but not both. It leaves little question to their dedication to Moderation, or if they want the rank for benefit of business.

-------------------------

 

Your solution I think is worse than the problem Max. Azie is ex-staff could you imagine trusting him with all of the recovery information of every sale.

——

Also, recovery tests don’t really work all the time. Even if you have all details they’ll often be declined because of IP even if all information is valid. There are some work arounds for that which I’m not going to go into.

Also after someone who is not the OO plays the account long enough, has some passwords and a transaction ID they can sometimes force a recovery. This leads to multiple people being able to recover accounts.

 

Your first sentence is so ignorant it nulls the entirety of whatever else you said - I'm sure my suggestions that would help bring accountability of ownership and recovery proof are worse, and going to do no good. I am offering options to help the problem while you're offering no options, and only telling others why theirs won't work.

And you may imagine trusting him because he's ex-staff, or some regular sythe user - but not me. I've seen ex-staff do stupid shit before this and someone being a moderator holds zero correlation to how well they are going to handle business and their financials, or if they are a gambling addict.

Which leads back to my suggestion of not allowing staff to also hold a business or sell accounts or SOMETHING - obviously I don't have the exact answers but can only offer insight. If Azie actually had awful trade practices (he did), and lied about true ownership behind his accounts (he did), and used his Ex-Mod status to push acc sales (he did) - maybe-just-maybe he shouldn't have been using mod-status to operate a business.

(this is all just random thoughts and obviously we run a free market here)

 

So let me grasp your logic here:

Azie is an ex-mod so theoretically under your system back in the day he would be doing the required recovery tests. Recovery tests in themself are flawed and just because someone can recover doesn’t make them the original owner. Hence making this process useless.

Now moving on, mods can become “ex-mods” and have huge data bases of recovery data on accounts. And you think there will never be any potential issues here? That’s my the most naive thing I’ve ever heard.

Even if the mod isn’t the person to recover, there’s 2-3 parties with recovery information at this point so it brings them all into question as the culprit.

 

Seems like friendships go a long way here. Situation could of been handled a bit differently imo but hey who am I.

 

I didn't receive anything? Would love to have gotten whatever this warning is that you are talking about... he recovered my almost-maxed account: Azie recovered almost-maxed account.

I think another big problem here is that Azie was very unresponsive for a month or two before the reports started piling up. He wasn't responsive on Discord, and he wasn't responsive on Sythe apparently either. I just happened to see this weird behavior since I was trying to talk to him about stuff on Discord in regards to the account, so I managed to get my GP off. I never got a trade alert though. I just got lucky trying to contact him. I feel bad for everyone who doesn't browse Sythe regularly and has lost at least GP they could've gotten off

Fox mentioned there was additional evidence much earlier, around the same time that he was becoming very unresponsive. I would have thought since he's ex-staff and that staff are friends with him that someone would pick up on this and start raising red flags. I picked up on it from seeing his inactivity and the fact that he told me he was moving for work and other stuff in his life was changing, etc. If I can figure it out I would have hoped staff could too.

Another problem here is the emails. His TOS basically forced myself and everyone else to leave his email on the account, so that made it much easier to recover. He probably could've recovered it anyway but I don't think doing this should be allowed in the future, it just makes scams easier.

 

Your signature is 10/10.

What a cunt.