The world is insane

How do you propose roads are built, hospitals are run and society is policed without taxes?

What relevance does that have to the fact that taxation is theft and that the existence of 'a government' is yet unproven.

 

[Angelmax]

I don't have a huge amount of time, but I will post my position on global warming, backed up by accepted scientific truths.

Fossil fuels (coal, oil and gas) are made up of extremely pure carbon. This is an accepted scientific fact.

When a fossil fuel is burnt, it's components are turned primarily to gas. These gases include carbon dioxide and sulphur dioxide (which causes acid rain when coal of high sulphuric content is combusted). This is an accepted scientific fact.

Since the industrial revolution, humans have begun using fossil fuels on an unprecedented scale. Ergo, unprecedented amounts of carbon dioxide is being released into the atmosphere via the burning of fossil fuels. This is an accepted scientific fact.

Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas.The main greenhouse gases in the Earth's atmosphere are water vapour, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and ozone. These gases are what retains the sun's heat in the atmosphere and allows life to exist. This again, is a proven scientific fact.

Therefore, an increase in the amount of greenhouse gases present in the atmosphere via increased combustion of fossil fuels allows more heat to be contained in the atmosphere. As usual, this is an accepted scientific fact.

There have been dozens of studies conducted on global warming by independent bodies, and time and time again the same result has occurred.

Man-caused global warming is a scientific fact, accept it.

 

[Angelmax]

What relevance does that have to the fact that taxation is theft and that the existence of 'a government' is yet unproven.

Taxation is not theft, it is a payment for the services (roads, hospitals etc) it is used for.

 

This'll be fun.

I don't have a huge amount of time, but I will post my position on global warming, backed up by accepted scientific truths.

Appeal to authority.

Fossil fuels (coal, oil and gas) are made up of extremely pure carbon. This is an accepted scientific fact.

When a fossil fuel is burnt, it's components are turned primarily to gas. These gases include carbon dioxide and sulphur dioxide (which causes acid rain when coal of high sulphuric content is combusted). This is an accepted scientific fact.

Made up of hydro-carbons. But what relevance does this have to AGW?

Since the industrial revolution, humans have begun using fossil fuels on an unprecedented scale. Ergo, unprecedented amounts of carbon dioxide is being released into the atmosphere via the burning of fossil fuels. This is an accepted scientific fact.

Again, these statements have no relevance to the debate.

Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas.The main greenhouse gases in the Earth's atmosphere are water vapour, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and ozone. These gases are what retains the sun's heat in the atmosphere and allows life to exist. This again, is a proven scientific fact.

Finally we get to your point. Now prove that the greenhouse model is correct, and that human contributions to greenhouse gas levels are causing or going to cause dangerous warming.

Therefore, an increase in the amount of greenhouse gases present in the atmosphere via increased combustion of fossil fuels allows more heat to be contained in the atmosphere. As usual, this is an accepted scientific fact.

There have been dozens of studies conducted on global warming by independent bodies, and time and time again the same result has occurred.

Man-caused global warming is a scientific fact, accept it.

You can cut back on the verbosity. I've heard the diatribe before.

 

[Angelmax]

For a change, why don't you tell us WHY global warming doesn't exist? All you have done is claimed anything anyone has posted as irrelevant, and added nothing to the debate.

If you can't, I think I'll make a thread claiming god doesn't exist and deny any attempt to prove me wrong.

 

For a change, why don't you tell us WHY global warming doesn't exist? All you have done is claimed anything anyone has posted as irrelevant, and added nothing to the debate.

If you can't, I think I'll make a thread claiming god doesn't exist and deny any attempt to prove me wrong.

Again, burden of proof. If you are asserting the existence of a condition, that differs from the norm, then the burden of proof is on you. My assumption, the skeptical and default assumption, is that the world will continue on exactly as it has for millions of years. Your assumption is that something I'm doing is going to derail that regular progression. That's a fantastic claim to make. Fantastic claims require fantastic evidence. So: go. evidence. Let's see it.

 

[Angelmax]

Again, burden of proof. If you are asserting the existence of a condition, that differs from the norm, then the burden of proof is on you. My assumption, the skeptical and default assumption, is that the world will continue on exactly as it has for millions of years. Your assumption is that something I'm doing is going to derail that regular progression. That's a fantastic claim to make. Fantastic claims require fantastic evidence. So: go. evidence. Let's see it.

I have already provided you with several accepted facts which show global warming to be true. What more do you want?

 

[K-3-V-1-N]

Taxation is not theft, it is a payment for the services (roads, hospitals etc) it is used for.

It's theft when you get a gun shoved in your mouth if you refuse to pay. Try going door to door and saying,

'Hi, I'm selling newspapers. I'm just gonna go ahead and take this twenty out of your pocket, okay? What's that sir? You don't want my paper? That's okay, you don't have to get it, you're just going to have to give me the money for it. I'll be back next month too. What? You won't give it next month? Well, if you're going to be that way.. I'm going to have some of my friends come and lock you up for a while until you cough up. You won't go willingly? You'll defend yourself? Well, unfortunately, they're going to shoot you if you struggle.'

 

I have already provided you with several accepted facts which show global warming to be true. What more do you want?

You have provided me with no facts relevant to your claim. That humans and all other life produce CO2 is not your claim. That is not a topic of dispute here.

Your claim is that humans are causing or will cause dangerous global warming. Where are the facts pertaining to this claim? Where is your evidence?

You have to prove causation. You have to prove that humans *CAUSE* dangerous warming. That's your burden of proof. That's evidence you need to provide, a case you need to make.

It's theft when you get a gun shoved in your mouth if you refuse to pay. Try going door to door and saying,

Yeah that's rape more than theft, but it's even more evil. Hehe 'taxation not theft'.

See? In retrospect the thread is perfectly named. Boo to all those doubters

 

[Angelmax]

You have provided me with no facts relevant to your claim. That humans and all other life produce CO2 is not your claim. That is not a topic of dispute here.

Your claim is that humans are causing or will cause dangerous global warming. Where are the facts pertaining to this claim? Where is your evidence?

You have to prove causation. You have to prove that humans *CAUSE* dangerous warming. That's your burden of proof. That's evidence you need to provide, a case you need to make.

Do I need to post exactly what I posted above?

Burning fossil fuels creates carbon.

Carbon as a greenhouse gas is what has always kept the earth's temperature liveable and stable.

As more greenhouses gases are released by burning, there is more carbon in the atmosphere.

Therefore, more heat is retained and the earth becomes warmer.


This time, instead of claiming all my statements are irrelevant, why not try and tell me why?

Burden of proof does not mean you can deny any argument.

 

[Angelmax]

It's theft when you get a gun shoved in your mouth if you refuse to pay.

Care to inform me of one occasion when people have been physically intimidated for not paying taxes?

 

Do I need to post exactly what I posted above?

Burning fossil fuels creates carbon.

Carbon as a greenhouse gas is what has always kept the earth's temperature liveable and stable.

As more greenhouses gases are released by burning, there is more carbon in the atmosphere.

Therefore, more heat is retained and the earth becomes warmer.

EDIT: Actually I'll make it simple, keeping to the strict argument as much as possible: You need to prove that human created CO2 causes dangerous climate warming; since that's now what you're claiming.

This time, instead of claiming all my statements are irrelevant, why not try and tell me why?

I did last time. Read the post again.

Burden of proof does not mean you can deny any argument.

No, just fallacious ones not backed by evidence.

 

[Denode]

The world is insane!

6.5 billion people believe in -and fight wars over- things which do not exist:
Governments, gods, global warming, national borders, paper currencies, nonbinding 'legal' documents, and the platonic poor. They pile into ridiculous schemes like 'universal healthcare', 'public education', fiat money, monopoly regulation, the illegalization of noncriminal activities, the legalization of actually criminal activities, and more generally the provision of and payment for 'government services' at the barrel of a gun.

But it's not a new state of affairs. The world seemingly has always been insane.

The fact that we could do without something does not render it nonexistent, simply unimportant.

Governments: Merely an ideal set up in order to keep some order, not necessary and not something to kill people over. If they choose to instate dictators as their leader, they get what's coming to them, and there is no reason for us to bail them out, other than to look good. Also, it usually involved killing many to save many, so who's worse, us or the dictator?

Gods: "My invisible friend is real, yours isn't. As such, I will kill millions of your people and heavily subdue the remaining huddled masses. After you have been tortured for 20 years, maybe then you'll see the light and worship my God."

Global Warming: There's multiple other reasons for there to be an increase in carbon dioxide, if that even is the cause. It's more of a "wait and see" thing at this point, so far as I know. Educate me if the situation is otherwise.

National borders: This is more of a battle for resources, not "my country is bigger than yours" bragging rights. Understandable in some ways, although the abolition of any borders or governments would solve this instantaneously. If governments everywhere were abolished, I'd probably cling to the intellectual few, and we could probably recruit some manual labor. Carve out a little niche in the Sierra's and feed on bears. That'd be the life.

As for the rest of what you listed, those are just PR moves by government. Politicians want to get re-elected? Feed the poor! Fund the churches! Cut taxes! Mass criminal round-up! Multiple ploys to look good and clean a filthy conscious, stained by unfulfilled campaign promises and dirty deals. It's a game of politics, and those that know what strings to pull and find what appeals most to a society that's getting increasingly humanistic are the ones that get re-elected, and can slide some of their personal desires into the deals they make with 3rd-parties and in the bills they pass in the form of pork-barrel spending.

 

Care to inform me of one occasion when people have been physically intimidated for not paying taxes?

That would be last month. I still have the letter.

And I quote:

Final notice to lodge your income tax returns

...

Court fines may be imposed
If you ignore this notice, you may be prosecuted and convicted of a criminal offense. If you are convicted, a court may fine you up to $2200 for a first offence and up to $4400 for a second offence. For any further offences you may be fined up to $5500 or imprisoned for a period of up to 12 months, or both.

The fact that we could do without something does not render it nonexistent, simply unimportant.

What renders X presumed-not-to-exist is that no evidence has been provided to support any claim that X does exist. Again: the default skeptical rational position is that things do not exist unless empirical evidence can prove otherwise. Show me the evidence. Show me that it exists and I will believe you.

 

[K-3-V-1-N]

Care to inform me of one occasion when people have been physically intimidated for not paying taxes?

I don't need to find any occasions, it's policy. Of course the government wouldn't physically attack someone for not paying. (lol not openly anyways)


Compare the two:

1) I shoot mobsters that are attempting to kidnap me. The shooting was in self defense. Result: No action taken by anyone. Self defense killing is not immoral.

2) I shoot city police officers that are attempting to kidnap me. The shooting was in self defense. Result: I receive a punishment anywhere between years in Government rape rooms to riding the lightning.

Yeah that's rape more than theft, but it's even more evil. Hehe 'taxation not theft'.

It's aggravated rape. Not only are they raping you, but they refuse to call it rape. They insist that it must be called consensual.

 

[Angelmax]

No, just fallacious ones not backed by evidence.

Your argument is fallacious as you have no evidence.

 

It's aggravated rape. Not only are they raping you, but they refuse to call it rape. They insist that it must be called consensual.

I think we should stop calling income tax theft. Because its really chattel slavery. You are born into it. You are required by force to give up a portion of your labour to 'the government'. They track you even if you leave 'the country'. You are required to pay 'taxes' for 2-10 years on all income you make even if you expatriate. And you can only expatriate if you have a new 'citizenship' with another 'government'.

Your argument is fallacious as you have no evidence.

Do we really have to go through this again? What an obvious fallacy. You've already accepted that the truth is objective and it can be arrived at through the use of reason. Otherwise why are you debating? You assume these premises before you even utter a sound / type a key.

The argument is a contradiction and therefore a fallacy.

 

[Deacon Frost]

Your argument is fallacious as you have no evidence.

You do realize Global Warming has been debunked, already, right? Several scientists are calling it a political movement in which they're simply trying to scare people into giving them more money, and more power (which is very normal).

We're actually inbetween ice ages. It's theorized that the world experiences an Ice Age every 10,000 years, and we're supposedly at like the 11,000 mark or some shit.

I'd prefer global warming over an ice age, tbh. What's gonna happen is it's gonna heat up a little bit, then it's gonna get cold... real cold.


And to answer the question, Sythe, according to Henry Markham, we're all merely natural experiments. The brain has evolved and is developing in the typical way. We're a new race, and my bet is that we don't last long as the development wouldn't be done at the stage it is. Think about how far humans themselves have come in the way of brain development. And then think about how far we may one day go... it's merely all adapting.

The wars, and shit, aren't our leaders' fault, tbh, they're our fault as we encourage such activities. I'm sure, soon, something will happen to send the world into chaos once again. Maybe this generation can have some fun and destroy our current social class!

 

[Denode]

What renders X presumed-not-to-exist is that no evidence has been provided to support any claim that X does exist. Again: the default skeptical rational position is that things do not exist unless empirical evidence can prove otherwise. Show me the evidence. Show me that it exists and I will believe you.

Read the rest of my post. Basically I should've just quoted the paper currencies part. Ever held a dollar? Well in the case that you have ever been in possession of paper currency, you've obviously fulfilled the empirical evidence as has been requested of me. All of the rest are simply ideals with horrifically real ramifications.

 

Read the rest of my post. Basically I should've just quoted the paper currencies part. Ever held a dollar? Well in the case that you have ever been in possession of paper currency, you've obviously fulfilled the empirical evidence as has been requesting of me. All of the rest are simply ideals with horrifically real ramifications.

No, because everytime I tried to 'hold a dollar' I just ended up holding a piece of paper with ink on it. Ever held 'the US constitution'? Four pieces of paper with ink on it.

I have a piece of paper right there with some ink on it. Do I get my own 'country' now? Can I force you to exchange this for goods?

In otherwords: can you prove to me that 'the dollar' exists? Where is your evidence?