Are we in the process of allowing ironman accounts to get cleaned?

[Agile life]

I am just wondering what kind of route are we going?

After reading this report and seeing the conclusion that came from it I'm rather concerned now for the future of Ironman accounts & Servicing.

Report: resolved

The user in question had his bank cleaned by a worker within that service provider's discord and now is being told that it's basically his fault for trusting that provider as well as there is no proof of the providers seem being held accountable for this?

I found this rather hard because in multiple pictures it shows not only did a worker admit to foul play but so did the service provider owner admits to foul play?

The customer in question made the report to hold the provider accountable and ensure that what they promised to do would be done but now is being told that he has to suffer for his losses.

Staff state that they can't say what was lost due to no proof of the bank, however, the worker who was on the account in question stated he knew exactly what was in the bank as well himself? What more does this person need in order to actually have an active case?

I respect he messed up on the fact of the TOS but as mentioned not once were they presented to him and asked him to agree to them in writing. I found this difficult to believe that a service provider can get away with something like this because of their Terms of service and no proof when the proof there is plenty.

You've got the service provider admitting to a breach, you've got the worker(s) admitting to a breach. The same work that was working on the account oh the victim was working on another customer's account at the same time who faced the same situation. Doesn't this seem fishy?

Anyway, I'd like to ask does this mean even though we are covered by our terms of service and if ironmen don't take pictures of their banks and if us providers admit to a fault can we all get away with something like this now?

 

I'd like to add on to this. I think TOS are simply misused by a majority of service providers. A TOS is an agreement between both parties, they set standard rules that must be followed in order to safeguard the customer and the providers rights. They have really just become a way to cop out of any unfortunate situation like the one we've just seen, when in reality they are meant to be used to protect users on both sides.

First example from this recent report that's being referred to:

the customer never changed their password in between multiple consecutive orders as they were instructed to do so by the TOS. This rule is in place because it creates a security breach for the account. Given that the provider knew the password wasn't being changed (which I believe was the case as one worker handled two of the orders and other workers that handled some of the orders lived with them/worked closely with them) then the orders should have been stopped, and should not have proceeded until the password was changed. The provider choose to carry out the order knowing the password hadn't been changed and the account was therefore unsecure, so they are completing the service while holding onto a loophole if anything were to happen.

Another example that I see far too often:

Providers, in their TOS, require customers to not sign onto their accounts during service, but then they either literally allow customers to sign in to check things, or are aware the customer has signed in but they continue with the service. This is the exact same thing as it creates a risk for the account but gives the provider a loophole if anything were to happen.

Providers need to be held accountable for enforcing their TOS. if you know a customer hasn't changed their password at all but then you do 6 more orders for them you are in breach of your own TOS servicing an account without a changed password. If providers are accountable and enforce their TOS then everyone involved is saved from hassle and customers are much safer, rather than it being just like a corporation using TOS loopholes to provide poor customer experiences.

I know that service providers are not always aware of when their TOS has been breached by a customer, and if they don't know it's been breached then they aren't really accountable. However, I know firsthand that many providers are aware of their TOS not being followed strictly and still providing services; they should enforce their TOS that's the entire point of it, it's not meant as a get out of jail free card

TL;DR

In many situations providers are just as accountable for enforcing their TOS as customers are for following it

 

[Agile life]

I'd like to add on to this. I think TOS are simply misused by a majority of service providers. A TOS is an agreement between both parties, they set standard rules that must be followed in order to safeguard the customer and the providers rights. They have really just become a way to cop out of any unfortunate situation like the one we've just seen, when in reality they are meant to be used to protect users on both sides.

First example from this recent report that's being referred to:

the customer never changed their password in between multiple consecutive orders as they were instructed to do so by the TOS. This rule is in place because it creates a security breach for the account. Given that the provider knew the password wasn't being changed (which I believe was the case as one worker handled two of the orders and other workers that handled some of the orders lived with them/worked closely with them) then the orders should have been stopped, and should not have proceeded until the password was changed. The provider choose to carry out the order knowing the password hadn't been changed and the account was therefore unsecure, so they are completing the service while holding onto a loophole if anything were to happen.

Another example that I see far too often:

Providers, in their TOS, require customers to not sign onto their accounts during service, but then they either literally allow customers to sign in to check things, or are aware the customer has signed in but they continue with the service. This is the exact same thing as it creates a risk for the account but gives the provider a loophole if anything were to happen.

Providers need to be held accountable for enforcing their TOS. if you know a customer hasn't changed their password at all but then you do 6 more orders for them you are in breach of your own TOS servicing an account without a changed password. If providers are accountable and enforce their TOS then everyone involved is saved from hassle and customers are much safer, rather than it being just like a corporation using TOS loopholes to provide poor customer experiences.

I know that service providers are not always aware of when their TOS has been breached by a customer, and if they don't know it's been breached then they aren't really accountable. However, I know firsthand that many providers are aware of their TOS not being followed strictly and still providing services; they should enforce their TOS that's the entire point of it, it's not meant as a get out of jail free card

TL;DR

In many situations providers are just as accountable for enforcing their TOS as customers are for following it

I do agree with a lot of this.

My biggest issue was that the provider admitted to a breach taking place as well as his own worker(s) and staff team. I just found it absolutely baffling that even with this he's allowed to continue with everything and now the customer is being told that nothing is to be provided to him.

I do agree it's extremely difficult to track what's going on in terms of if a customer uses their accounts and everything but still. I find it hard to allow for something like this to happen because too me it's going to start saying to any worker/provider it's okay to steal from your ironman clients because they've agreed to tos and it's hard to say who did it.

 

[Emperor Nero]

I also disagreed with the report as it looked like the provider admitted to a breach to me. So, I am not sure why the report got closed for lack of evidence. Oh well.

 

The most ironic part of the report is when the provider quoted the customer's words claiming "the customer admitted to it".

Meanwhile these are his own words quoted from his replies:

We simply do not know what happened with this account.

I would have offered to get it all back right away if Josh would have changed his password in between trainers.

I didn't see anywhere where the service provider actually asked the customer to change his password between trainers? Aren't the trainers handled by the service and not the customer?

2) We are not responsible for loss of wealth on accounts.

This is a line in his TOS as per his own screenshot of it. How the hell is this even a line in any TOS? Legally speaking, the jargon used is utter 100% garbage and is so vague and retarded, I don't even know how you can even put that in there.

In this case of discord user who lost the 3 items, we know we are at fault, so fuck our TOS.

Lmao so I guess "fuck his TOS" whenever applicable. He should have that as the last line of his actual TOS.

He broke our TOS and neglected to change his password between 4 (possibly more) different trainers?

The service provider literally broke his own TOS, as stated previously.

Kindle lives in Spain (or Argentina I always forgot).

Cesar and Montoya live in the same house.

User Katako also had the password. He is Venezuelan but he does not live in the same house and does not know any of the others listed.




That alone is 4 separate people who had access to the account. For me to pin it on Montoya is ridiculous and unfair to him. He worked his ass off to be in the position he is in. He would not jeopardize that over 200m.

Yep, you heard him right, he just used tons of information that has ZERO to do with the report at hand to gaslight everyone reading the report.

Another funny thing is his worker was full-on ready to compensate, but, he, as a service provider is not? Every single reply of the service provider raises more questions and less comprehension.

I want to say one other thing, if this report swings my way, I may still compensate Josh in some way,

If the report swing his way! LMAO

Legit no bank pin, same password for a month between 4 different people.

Let me rephrase that: "between 4 of my own workers"

As far as TOS goes, I checked our logs and we did not make you agree to any TOS in any of the newer tickets. It's only said up here as I was not aware of the new Sythe rules.

> He was not aware of new sythe rules
> blaming customer not reading his rules

Kekked with the power of a thousand suns.

It's common sense to not have your account in possession of 4 different people at a time. It's common sense to have a bank pin. I understand that you felt you could trust us, and you can.

Let me rephrase this:

"It's common sense to not have your account in possession of 4 of my own workers who represent me as a service. It's common sense to have a bank pin. I understand that you felt you could trust us, but even if I have no clue what happened because I cannot look after my own workers and I should not be held responsible for my own worker's protocols, you can still trust us tho man"

I made the original offer ONLY because I thought Montoya had taken 2 accounts and banks went missing on both. I WAS CONCERNED IT WAS A LEAK. However, I later found out the culprit behind @finishmykcboss was the EMPLOYEE who took the order Montoya gave it to.

Dunno, it seems to me like the culprit is still his own employee? Lol?

I do not know you, you are somebody random on the internet. I'd love to take your word for it that you have no viruses, have not shared your password with friends, or that YOU didn't leak your account in some way, but I do not know 100%.

Just even more lol.

I'm sorry for my ignorance on this matter, but the only reason this is in the discussion is because an Ex-Staff member of mine is bitter about me (for a good reason, I fired him) and is currently feeding josh what to say to win this.

Is he saying that depending on the way people talk the rules are less broken or some shit? Wtf does this even have to do with the subject?

I am still denying we took the bank. Where is the proof of us taking the bank?

He literally admitted that it's one of his own employees 2 quotes up? This guy is clearly on 16 types of drugs and after reading through his gibberish, things made even less sense.

 

[Agile life]

I'm sorry for my ignorance on this matter, but the only reason this is in the discussion is because an Ex-Staff member of mine is bitter about me (for a good reason, I fired him) and is currently feeding josh what to say to win this.
Is he saying that depending on the way people talk the rules are less broken or some shit? Wtf does this even have to do with the subject?

I have to thank you for bringing this to my attention.

As this made me giggle a little because I’m the ex-staff member he’s referring too. In which he never fired me, I left because China was always more concerned about money than running his server.

the issue with this is as well is he’s even stated before that he just leaves everything to be run by his ‘workers’ and doesn’t even know what goes on because he shows no attention.

For me, him saying to people he’s good friends with video so nothing will happen is what puts people off reporting. Now something like this happens and a customer is screwed oht of his hard earned money isn’t fair. If he was the one that this situation happened too he’d be fighting tooth and nail but no.

He doesn’t enforce his Terms of service or worries because he doesn’t even allocate the orders to workers himself this is done by his own staff.

 

[Madz]

That guy and his staff on his server is such a joke, who threat all and what not, when things don’t go their way. Imagine they still get to do work at Sythe, but some staff just love him I guess.

How about you guys start banning kids like China and his staff

 

That guy and his staff on his server is such a joke, who threat all and what not, when things don’t go their way. Imagine they still get to do work at Sythe, but some staff just love him I guess.

How about you guys start banning kids like China and his staff

@Madz @HexaRS
Thank you We can always hop into voice chat some time and discuss the situation or any other concerns you have. I'd be happy to hop in and talk with any of you.

Just because ONE bank was dropped (which was going to be compensated for despite his pathetic account security and lack of adherence TOS), does not mean that we are not competent. We handle hundreds of banks bigger than his with no issues.


I have always been reasonable to all customers. You see one report on Sythe and make your entire judgement about me based upon that. The customer's whose entire bank was dropped has 4 IRL friends still trust our service and are getting orders completed as we speak. There was never a breach, just 1 confirmed trainer that took items off an account, and he was dealt with. Many screenshots you see are from before I learned new information, and as well as before Josh started to be an ass. Yes, it's true, I did not appreciate a report being up about me that would not have happened if he would have followed TOS. It DID affect my final decision about his compensation.


If you guys really think that because I call video daddy, that it will prevent Sythe from taking proper action against me, you are delusional. I am held to the same standard as everyone else. Video barely acknowledges me to tell you truth. I just like video and respect what he does for the Site? STAFF COULD NOT GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT ME.

If Sythe does hold bias with me, then I simply would not use the site as it's not fair to all.




Anyway, if you guys want to cry here about me and the way I run my business, go ahead. I embrace the hate.


Agile Life, I did fire you. I even sent you ~$200 as a farewell gift to help you get started on Sythe and to thank you for helping me get started. That does not sound like somebody who is concerned overly with money. I have also paid out scam victims that had nothing to do with me for no other reason whatsoever besides truly wanting to.






I will make more money in one year of my IRL profession than I will my entire life probably doing this. I don't care about money made from here. You can make me out to be a horrible person, I don't really care because the opinions of people behind a screen do not phase me.

Frankly, I do this because I enjoy providing good services to people (something you all would see if you bothered to check our feedback), and also helping out my friends in Venezuela.



Questions? PM me, but I won't be checking back here

 

Ah yes, the "I don't even care and everyone here is losers" stance while addressing 0 concerns.

We aren't crying man, simply pointing out things. You're the one looking like you're crying lol.

"Im always right, Sythe biased if am ban" man why would anyone ever hop on a discord with you, I can only imagine what kind of sweaty shit show that would be like.

Look man, it's clear as day what happened:

1. You admitted that it was your own employee who was at fault for the missing items.
2. You did not like the fact he made a report
3. You are not reimbursing him because of this.

Lol is there something i'm missing here? Your employee is at fault and you can't pay this man back? How does this not trump the TOS here?

As far as TOS goes, I checked our logs and we did not make you agree to any TOS in any of the newer tickets. It's only said up here as I was not aware of the new Sythe rules.

Okay, so you didn't read the rules and it's okay, but god forbid a customer doesn't. Your shit stinks as fuck and your "business" is a complete joke. You should stick to your IRL job if you "don't make any money and 90% of people are losers here".

PS: Hopped on a call with Startyourironman and we talked about the whole thing.

PS2: I have personally reimbursed DaletheWhale 1000$ for all his lost time spent on his iron. This man lost everything he had on his iron trusting you and even after admitting your own employee was at fault you gaslighted him over and over with different excuses (going as far as mentioning a computer virus???).

 

[President]

I'd like to add on to this. I think TOS are simply misused by a majority of service providers. A TOS is an agreement between both parties, they set standard rules that must be followed in order to safeguard the customer and the providers rights. They have really just become a way to cop out of any unfortunate situation like the one we've just seen, when in reality they are meant to be used to protect users on both sides.

First example from this recent report that's being referred to:

the customer never changed their password in between multiple consecutive orders as they were instructed to do so by the TOS. This rule is in place because it creates a security breach for the account. Given that the provider knew the password wasn't being changed (which I believe was the case as one worker handled two of the orders and other workers that handled some of the orders lived with them/worked closely with them) then the orders should have been stopped, and should not have proceeded until the password was changed. The provider choose to carry out the order knowing the password hadn't been changed and the account was therefore unsecure, so they are completing the service while holding onto a loophole if anything were to happen.

Another example that I see far too often:

Providers, in their TOS, require customers to not sign onto their accounts during service, but then they either literally allow customers to sign in to check things, or are aware the customer has signed in but they continue with the service. This is the exact same thing as it creates a risk for the account but gives the provider a loophole if anything were to happen.

Providers need to be held accountable for enforcing their TOS. if you know a customer hasn't changed their password at all but then you do 6 more orders for them you are in breach of your own TOS servicing an account without a changed password. If providers are accountable and enforce their TOS then everyone involved is saved from hassle and customers are much safer, rather than it being just like a corporation using TOS loopholes to provide poor customer experiences.

I know that service providers are not always aware of when their TOS has been breached by a customer, and if they don't know it's been breached then they aren't really accountable. However, I know firsthand that many providers are aware of their TOS not being followed strictly and still providing services; they should enforce their TOS that's the entire point of it, it's not meant as a get out of jail free card

TL;DR

In many situations providers are just as accountable for enforcing their TOS as customers are for following it

Meh, the customer is always free to say: I derogate from provision X, or I'd like to add term Y. It's a free market. Everyone is going to look out for themselves. Any (unasked) protection they provide the other party is either because it's obligatory or out of good-will.

If anything, customers should be made aware of their position to negotiate ToS and not be intimidated by them, because the provider is a big boy. Everything is negotiable, especially in this market

 

[DaleTheWhale]

PS2: I have personally reimbursed DaletheWhale 1000$ for all his lost time spent on his iron. This man lost everything he had on his iron trusting you and even after admitting your own employee was at fault you gaslighted him over and over with different excuses (going as far as mentioning a computer virus???).

I am absolutely blown away by the overwhelming amount of support I have received from this community in the last 24 hours.

@HexaRS your generosity is incredible and I can't thank you enough. I can confirm he has sent me $1000 USD as a reimbursement for my ironman. I am lost for words. This community is amazing and I never expected anything like this to happen. Thank you so much, from the bottom of my heart.

 

[Emperor Nero]

PS: Hopped on a call with Startyourironman and we talked about the whole thing.

Did you learn anything new from the call?

 

[Madz]

@HexaRS that is actually the best thing I’ve ever seen on here, huge respect.

 

[Agile life]

@HexaRS that is absolutely incredible what you did. It just comes to show that at least someone can see the true colours of the situation the dude was in and how he's been screwed over by someone as selfish and uncaring.

@StartYourIronman - You're welcome to keep stating you fired me when it's funny that I'm looking at our chat logs now. Which doesn't show anything.

In regards to your $200 shall we be honest here and would you maybe like the screenshots to be posted to show how money grabbing you are? The $200 was a gift to say thank you to me for when we first started the discord server. You had exams going on and needed someone to run everything whilst you were offline for a couple of months. In that time I had stated to you I'd like to work on a basis of 70 - 30 (70% you & 30% me) which you agreed too. Within that time we took over $2000+ in services and account sales. When you returned you didn't want to spare the profits anymore and asked if you could buy me out.

Not even a month later you came running back to me asking me to come back because you couldn't handle everything, you were struggling and then even decided to write a new agreement.

The final time I left was again because of money, we had agreed on the basis I was going back to school so I didn't know how much time I was going to be around and you didn't want to split the profits 50 - 50 anymore as Kelloggs a previous staff member who also stole from customers and workers under your watch was going to take 20%.

It's then also funny how you come in the discord after your "Manager" Kelloggs scam quits with over 1b+ worth of worker payments and deposits. (Another thing you liked to keep hidden.) Saying to me that you can't look back to see how things would of been with us because it will make you look sad.

The only person here making a fool out of themselves is you. Because you are showing your true colours to everyone on Sythe that you can't run a business, you can't be trusted, and you can't even resolve situations professionally.

Just to show people the real China because he wants to make comments.

This was the first time he wanted to split because he wanted to run solo:

Here is him asking for me back because he was struggling:

 

[Madz]

Too bad I can't get hold of the conversation I had with him and his sudden retarded staff member, Kindle, as they were fast to kick me out so I couldn't save any of the insultments. And oh yeah, the username and passwords are not only shared with the staff worker, but all staff workers - how is that secure by any means?

Besides that, I believe that China is a decent man, but is very good at telling what the customers want, and doesn't live up to anything.

Peace.

 

[Grave]

While I agree it's pretty retarded how most of these sellers use "terms of service" nowadays, just don't use their service then until one of them shows up with decent terms. If someone wants to offer cheaper services but doesn't want to take responsibility should something go wrong, they should be able to do that and you should be allowed to take that added risk and use them.

I'm sure most of these people offering services absolutely would not mind charging you 10x more and guaranteeing it in some way, just ask.

 

[Ithwolf]

I am not dealing anymore with his services after he antiscammed my account and took the items before even checking up with a mod/admin. Eventhough the debt that was on my adress already was paid before he did this. Still, I did not make a report and I dont really bother about it. But I am not taking more services from him. And I know infact it is against the rules to antiscam someone.

 

[Glass Animal]

@HexaRS that is absolutely incredible what you did. It just comes to show that at least someone can see the true colours of the situation the dude was in and how he's been screwed over by someone as selfish and uncaring.

@StartYourIronman - You're welcome to keep stating you fired me when it's funny that I'm looking at our chat logs now. Which doesn't show anything.

In regards to your $200 shall we be honest here and would you maybe like the screenshots to be posted to show how money grabbing you are? The $200 was a gift to say thank you to me for when we first started the discord server. You had exams going on and needed someone to run everything whilst you were offline for a couple of months. In that time I had stated to you I'd like to work on a basis of 70 - 30 (70% you & 30% me) which you agreed too. Within that time we took over $2000+ in services and account sales. When you returned you didn't want to spare the profits anymore and asked if you could buy me out.

Not even a month later you came running back to me asking me to come back because you couldn't handle everything, you were struggling and then even decided to write a new agreement.

The final time I left was again because of money, we had agreed on the basis I was going back to school so I didn't know how much time I was going to be around and you didn't want to split the profits 50 - 50 anymore as Kelloggs a previous staff member who also stole from customers and workers under your watch was going to take 20%.

It's then also funny how you come in the discord after your "Manager" Kelloggs scam quits with over 1b+ worth of worker payments and deposits. (Another thing you liked to keep hidden.) Saying to me that you can't look back to see how things would of been with us because it will make you look sad.

The only person here making a fool out of themselves is you. Because you are showing your true colours to everyone on Sythe that you can't run a business, you can't be trusted, and you can't even resolve situations professionally.

Just to show people the real China because he wants to make comments.

This was the first time he wanted to split because he wanted to run solo:

Here is him asking for me back because he was struggling:

@StartYourIronman how come you never replied to this? You where quick to the draw on everything else but went dead silent here.

 

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