[Denied]Adjust Requirements for becoming OMM

[Bolt]

EDIT: Too many people are thinking I want MORE OMMs. INCORRECT and FALSE STATEMENT.

I want the process to be more streamlined and open; The guidelines thread to be more actively updated (in addition to the guidelines actually being followed by the OMM team for applicants - eg; '7 days and we'll get back to you' - it's more like a month - that needs to be fixed); and lastly more stringent basic minimum requirements to even apply.



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Point of this thread: Increase the requirements to stop giving false hope to people and have a decreased # of lesser qualified applicants make it to the voting pool, and (presumably) an increased number of well-rounded thorough applicants make it through to the voting pool.

Examples of denied applicants:

Wortel's Official Middleman Application: Completed

Champ's OMM Application: Completed



Last accepted application was Mootrucks in 2017.

I fully understand that there are other extraneous factors and a voting process that goes on, but this process should be clearer. Why was Champ, admin of this site at the time of the app (for approximately 1.5 years), denied? Global moderator Wortel (probably banned more scammers than entire FBI + CIA + MI5 + MI6 + Veiligheid van de Staat + Bundesnachrichtendienst combined), global moderator King?

In addition, with today's society and market style, people can easily scam quit with $10k+. Sure, we need to evaluate the individuals personality, activity, what they have done on and off Sythe, what type of person they are, but they should also meet basic minimum requirements of having raw trust in the form of verified, MMed trades.

The current 1/1 requirement of $550 is ridiculously low.

I am proposing an amendment to the requirements for becoming an Official Middleman (OMM) on Sythe. The current requirements are as follows:

​

I propose changing the requirements to the following:

5 trades for anything up to $50
5 trades for anything between $50 - $100
5 trades for anything at or above $100
5 trades for anything at or above $200
3 trades for anything at or above $350
2 trades for anything at or above $500
1 trade for anything at or above $750

*Portions marked in red are the proposed / amended changes requested.

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Increasing the requirements would be beneficial to the entire rank, even more so than how highly regarded it is now. One single $550 trade is not much "trust" nowadays when people are transacting billions of 07 and $2k-3k+ easily in a few trades.

If people think these requirements are too difficult, they should be. OMM should not be handed out easily.

Right now, the system is defunct - too easy to get the requirements, too many denials, too few acceptances. Abandoned guidelines thread that isn't even followed by the team + inactive OMM's that need to be removed. This needs to be fixed.

@Shin

 

[JerryCS]

Bolt for OMM?
But then again last acceptance 2017 is stupid it's 2019 what is happening at sythe hq!!

 

yeah that’s a good suggestion, another suggestion should be that to even be considered for acceptance, that you’ve never been banned, especially if the ban endangered someone’s account liability/financial liability/ and or personal info leakage. Imo OMM should have a 100% clean slate, as they are the most trusted amongst the community.

 

I agree with everything you've posted, but most of all to increase the requirements of achieving the Official Middleman rank.

As for qualities an omm should have, I believe the following should be taken into account:

- User's personality and characteristics
- User's involvement in the community
- User's trust level (amount of trades, value of trades)
- User must never have been banned for scamming, blackhat or any other activity that has endagered another member. @Weekday
- ...

 

I propose changing the requirements to the following:

10 trades for anything up to $50
10 trades for anything between $50 - $100
10 trades for anything at or above $100
5 trades for anything at or above $200
5 trades for anything at or above $350
3 trades for anything at or above $550
1 trade for anything at or above $1000

I can support this. They shouldn't be given too often unless they've proven themselves as not only a trusted member because there are a lot of those, but someone that goes above and beyond in providing a safe, comfortable experience to both buyer and seller. Selling 2b gold isn't the same as MM'ing a 2b gold sale. Trust is the same, but time, patience and guidance aren't involved.

Again I can support adding more trades to someone's application even though it doesn't affect what's already in place as people that have gotten chosen for OMM have more than acquired what you're suggesting.

 

[Bolt]

I can support this. They shouldn't be given too often unless they've proven themselves as not only a trusted member because there are a lot of those, but someone that goes above and beyond in providing a safe, comfortable experience to both buyer and seller. Selling 2b gold isn't the same as MM'ing a 2b gold sale. Trust is the same, but time, patience and guidance aren't involved.

Again I can support adding more trades to someone's application even though it doesn't affect what's already in place as people that have gotten chosen for OMM have more than acquired what you're suggesting.

I am proposing adding that any and all OMM applicants have MMed a $1000+ trade, not have vouches for selling gold of that value.

The system is broken if people are completing the requirements too easily and the last acceptance was 2017. Something needs change.

Thanks for your input!

 

The problem: Too many people getting denied, requirements are too low, and requirements are unclear. Many people complete the requirements and get denied.

Why are these problems though? The rank is incredibly hard to get for a reason. These are people that are deemed some of the most trustworthy on Sythe, of course the process to becoming one should be VERY hard to get otherwise it wouldn't hold the weight that is currently does.
Additionally to your point about requirements being too low or unclear, the guidelines they have set out are minimum requirements, it is not (and rightfully so) a checklist that when completed should automatically grant someone the rank.

I fully understand that there are other extraneous factors and a voting process that goes on, but this process should be clearer. If it's not going to be given out lightly, why not increase the requirements in the first place? Why was Champ, admin of this site at the time of the app, denied? Global moderator Wortel, global moderator King?

How does increasing the requirements actually solve the problems you stated? The application process will still be (what I assume) up to the OMMs voting on each application and opinion of the candidate.

Also, the majority of OMM applications for VERY trusted people (including many staff members) have been denied, many even multiple times. For a few examples, it took @Chloe and @Astro two applications, @Zuzel111, @Dave, and @WolfRunescape three applcations, and @Tyler four applications. Each person had applications denied even though they were very involved members of the community and were well within the requirements of the application.

Additionally, someone being a member of staff does not mean that they are trustworthy enough to be OMM in the slightest, although it is true that people on the staff team have to have a certain amount of trust to be accepted.

I am proposing an amendment to the requirements for becoming an Official Middleman (OMM) on Sythe. The current requirements are as follows:

​

I propose changing the requirements to the following:

10 trades for anything up to $50
10 trades for anything between $50 - $100
10 trades for anything at or above $100
5 trades for anything at or above $200
5 trades for anything at or above $350
3 trades for anything at or above $550
1 trade for anything at or above $1000

I don't see what this accomplishes in regard to fixing the problems outlined.

If completed applications from even admins and moderators are getting denied, increase the requirements or stop accepting OMM applications. The last accepted application was Mootrucks in 2017.

In addition, increasing the requirements would be beneficial to the entire rank, even more so than how highly regarded it is now. One single $550 trade is not much "trust" nowadays when people are transacting billions of 07 and $2k-3k+ easily in a few trades.

If people think these requirements are too difficult, they should be. OMM should not be handed out easily; right now, the system is defunct - too easy to get the requirements, too many denials, too few acceptances. This needs to be fixed.

You seem to be misunderstanding the application process. The requirements outlined in the thread are the bare minimum to be allowed to apply. There is nothing stopping people from putting a very large and thorough application that would be much more impressive than if someone just filled out the application and had friends post on their application like 95% of applicants do.

 

[mumble]

I believe that the current OMM team should be reevaluated.

It's not like we need to have a huge OMM team but several members would be ideal. To some extent it's about how long a user has been on the site and how active they've been in that period with trading and MMing specifically.

We don't need a shit ton of them, if they're an OMM they're official, they represent the site and should have as much trust as a user would put into the site.

Just because a user has done some trades for people doesn't mean they should represent the site, the same thing with the mod team. It's not a cut and dry thing.

 

[Bolt]

You seem to be misunderstanding the application process. The requirements outlined in the thread are the bare minimum to be allowed to apply. There is nothing stopping people from putting a very large and thorough application that would be much more impressive than if someone just filled out the application and had friends post on their application like 95% of applicants do.

This is precisely what I am trying to prevent by proposing increased OMM requirements.

Increase the requirements = less people apply = less 'fake' applications to deal with

If the people completing the bare minimum requirements weren't going to be accepted anyways, why not just raise the minimum threshold bar even higher? Why give false hope when the answer is seemingly more and more pre-determined.

What is the point in having the requirements so low, as they are right now? Why was the last OMM accepted in 2017?

We have had many well qualified people denied since then. The reasons may be private but it's not looking good for the OMM team if thorough applications such as @Champ and @Wortel are being denied

I am not proposing a cut and dry solution to accepting OMM apps, if my post was read. There are many other extraneous factors, and a voting process, yes, I understand. What I am proposing is that there be increased requirements so less applications get to the voting process, and more quality, thorough, applicants make it to the pool instead.

In reality, we know that applicants need to have MMed 1 million dollars and be CEO of Apple + have the personality of Mahatma Ghandi and Bill Gates charity foundation right now to get in

 

I understand what you're getting at, but I'm unclear of EXACTLY what it is you want to change? Could you perhaps post a rough guideline as to what you think would resolve this issue? I understand you have adjusted the MMing guidelines, but your posts seem to suggest that there should be more that should be clarified in the application process.

Also, I'm not in favor of tightening the process to include those with entirely clean slates. Roughly half of this site's moderators and OMMs have pardoned at some point. People make mistakes and they move on. These mistakes are always factored into voting regardless.

 

[Bolt]

I understand what you're getting at, but I'm unclear of EXACTLY what it is you want to change? Could you perhaps post a rough guideline as to what you think would resolve this issue? I understand you have adjusted the MMing guidelines, but your posts seem to suggest that there should be more that should be clarified in the application process.

Also, I'm not in favor of tightening the process to include those with entirely clean slates. Roughly half of this site's moderators and OMMs have pardoned at some point. People make mistakes and they move on. These mistakes are always factored into voting regardless.

As stated by @Jason and @mumble, this isn’t a “cut and dry” process. You as an OMM should know this much better.

I cannot state EXACTLY what needs to be clarified.

I simply propose increasing the minimum requirements from what they currently are.

The current requirements are too low in my opinion, amongst other reasons stated above.

 

You talk about staff as if it's a sign of trust - it isn't.

Why was Champ, admin of this site at the time of the app (for approximately 1.5 years), denied? Global moderator Wortel (probably banned more scammers than entire FBI + CIA + MI5 + MI6 + Veiligheid van de Staat + Bundesnachrichtendienst combined), global moderator King?

Just because someone is mod or even admin doesn't mean they have more trust than anyone else. The only thing they're "trusted" with is people's full IPs, anything they do that is corrupt can easily be undone, it's not a sign of trust.

Also, whenever you submit your application there is another test you have to pass (private; I don't think I can revel exactly what it is to the public) that weighs VERY heavily on your application and if you don't pass it then you have to start a second application. There is more than just being trusted with $ when it comes to being an OMM.

However I completely agree with making it harder to become OMM (e.g adding a $1000 dollar trade)

Small edit: I also think there should be a requirement of at least 1 trade per 3 to 6 months to keep your rank, I don't think we should allow people to keep the rank and just go AFK. I know there was a small purge awhile ago but I think there needs to be another one.

 

OMMs arent as useful as they used to be since people started making big reputations and offering services that were offered by sketchy people because noone wanted to offer such services (Eg. account creations shop)
Imo nothing needs to be changed, site can't be overloaded with OMMs that arent as useful as they used to be

 

Global moderator Wortel (probably banned more scammers than entire FBI + CIA + MI5 + MI6 + Veiligheid van de Staat + Bundesnachrichtendienst combined)

Lol

yeah that’s a good suggestion, another suggestion should be that to even be considered for acceptance, that you’ve never been banned, especially if the ban endangered someone’s account liability/financial liability/ and or personal info leakage. Imo OMM should have a 100% clean slate, as they are the most trusted amongst the community.

Keep in mind like 3/4 of the staff team consists of pardoned members. I'm sure that the majority of the current OMM's have pardoned aswell, so there goes your clean slate. One of the upsides of having pardoned members being OMM is; they've scammed, realised it doesn't bring them any happiness and therefore don't have to experience it anymore. Not implying I would ever want to experience it though.

User's trust level (amount of trades, value of trades)

This is so flawed that even the community has no clue how to rate people's trust level. For example I've been questioned to provide proof of receiving 30M 07GP when I was middlemanning at one time, while being a global moderator, with the same donor rank as I have now. I'm not implying those 2 arguements matter in rating someone's trust level, but I'm fairly confident that someone who trades alot will have a higher trust level than someone who barely trades - which is understandable, but doesn't make any sense.

For a few examples, it took @Chloe and @Astro two applications, @Zuzel111, @Dave, and @WolfRunescape three applcations, and @Tyler four applications. Each person had applications denied even though they were very involved members of the community and were well within the requirements of the application.

Them being denied multiple times to be accepted later on kinda proves the system is flawed, perhaps. Depends on the reason why they were denied though. The reasons I was denied for were for example the OMM's being critical about what I stated in my application, aswell as my answers to the questions. While I get those can be wrongly answered, for example with moderator applications this happens too - but those answers can be looked up, I have literally no clue what they are on about now. One of the last reasons was not including both the buyer and seller usernames in the same PM - which is atleast something I can understand and will have to work on if I ever am allowed to get back into trading again.

yeah that’s a good suggestion, another suggestion should be that to even be considered for acceptance, that you’ve never been banned, especially if the ban endangered someone’s account liability/financial liability/ and or personal info leakage. Imo OMM should have a 100% clean slate, as they are the most trusted amongst the community.

To get back to this I wanted to add that the reason most of the OMM applications of banned/DNT'ed users weren't archived is because "they could continue where they left off if they ever return", now hopefully this gives you some kind of understanding about how things go around here, lol.

 

Lol
This is so flawed that even the community has no clue how to rate people's trust level. For example I've been questioned to provide proof of receiving 30M 07GP when I was middlemanning at one time, while being a global moderator, with the same donor rank as I have now. I'm not implying those 2 arguements matter in rating someone's trust level, but I'm fairly confident that someone who trades alot will have a higher trust level than someone who barely trades - which is understandable, but doesn't make any sense.

That's why I named multiple points which they should consider when choosing someone to become OMM. For example, Luck is more trusted than me (and if it were only based on trust level he should have a higher chance of getting omm), however if Luck is not community involved, wants to do it simply for personal gain, etc etc, then perhaps he is not more qualified than me after all. I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly lol, but what I'm trying to say is that you have to factor in everything about that person before coming to the conclusion if they are worthy of becoming an official middleman. I'm sure this is a very hard task for them as well, because they will also feel bad if they pick someone and they end up scamming..

EDIT: This was just an example btw, love Luck <3

 

[Bolt]

Lots of well thought out responses and answers to this thread.

I am glad we are having a community debate over this- clearly one that is much needed and one that we are much divided over.

I appreciate the responses received so far on this matter from everyone including regular users, to OMMs, and the moderator team here. Thank you for contributing to the discussion so far, friends.

 

@Wortel so essentially I should scam someone, pardon & apply for omm

Admins + Mods should have a sense of instilled “trust” they shouldn’t be users with 10 vouches, they are users with experience & with signs of positive commitment to changing/helping/glorifying a safe, and happy community.
A newcomer comes into this site, and has a choice to trade between a moderator or a member, who do you think they will choose? Ofc they’ll choose a symbolized moderator because it shows they’ve done “something” to become this rank within the system of Sythe.

 

I agree with making the required trade values/amounts higher, pretty easy to complete it currently.

 

Gonna have to go with a no support on this one.
I think it's good as it is right now, and the rank should not be any harder/easier to aquire.

 

Being banned previously shouldn't restrict your ability to apply, people make bad judgement calls. Obviously having history will significantly reduce your chances of getting the rank, but if you can override this with reasons for why you should in fact deserve the rank, then all the better.
Being an OMM should require some sort of formal verification though, e.g. phone number, ID, address. As an OMM your reputation directly impacts the entire forum.

I'd also like to see only people with completed applications apply, the section is littered with people with half done apps.
Further, I think you should abolish the need to middleman anything under $50 because these are kinda rare to obtain and don't really prove anything.