Disallow offsite vouches

From live chat it is sometimes difficult to track where the customer has come from.

On the "referrer" section sometimes it will just say "Direct Traffic".
This is when a user clicks a no-follow backlink on a thread topic or a link embedded on a banner/signature.

The problem then is that the customer could be from Sythe, Powerbot, or elsewhere and there is no way of knowing so using a live chat shortcut with all links is convenient for the site owner, his employees in the live chat, and the customer.

If the screenshot you posted is from skype, the problem with skype just from my experience is that now skype has updated, pretty much anybody can message me out of the blue and it will automatically send me a contact request if they haven't messaged me before. (Instead of adding first, then talking later, like in the past).

When a customer comes to me on skype they usually don't say where they are from, or how they found me. They usually immediately start asking about the product/service I am offering. My assistant, Lilly, uses our skype more than me and from her training she knows just to answer the customer's questions and if she needs help with an order to contact me. She doesn't really know anything about the forums or the vouch systems so that's something I handle. If the customer doesn't state where he/she is from then usually I don't look up their skype to try and find them and leave a vouch, I just leave the sale as closed with both the customer and I satisfied, just without leaving a vouch.

The main part of your suggestion that is most problematic is that I think it would be difficult to police 4 vouches being left on 4 different markets, instead of just Sythe. The only way this would work is if all market staff from each site worked together, which will most likely never happen.

If a customer finds me through a sales topic on Powerbot and we do a deal, then that makes them a "customer from powerbot" right? So what happens if next tuesday the same user is also registered on sythe, then for some reason sees a sales topic on sythe and messages me to purchase. Does that make them a sythe customer now, or are they to only vouch on powerbot as that's how we initially did business?

With the above thoughts typed up I have mixed feelings on this. I won't "no support" it yet as my opinion could be swayed after reading what others have said, especially if they identify something I haven't considered. I also will not support it due to the initial thoughts I have typed above.

All that being said I wouldn't mind at all if this passed as it wouldn't really effect me.

 

[Eazy E]

Support. Vouches off site mean nothing because other sites can have different rules and regulations which would make a sale/trade not meet the requirements of sythe, and there is also no way to prove that A ( owner of sythe account) is B ( owner of off site account with lots of vouches), nor can sythe prove that the individual is in fact the original owner of the off site account.

For example, someone can have lik $10000+ in graphics services, gold or script sales, or even real life trades, but...

1. Graphics can't receive vouches on sythe
2. There is no way to properly vet those vouches and is too time consuming for our moderators to look into
3. No way to prove beyond a doubt that the person in question is the OG owner of the account they are using as vouches

 

[Eazy E]

Gunna put this in the same boat as Disallow people using skype and discord message as sythe vouch's so i'll say I agree that vouches shouldn't be used anywhere other than their origin, but like that thread concluded, it can be moved around as long as it is provable. So i'll go with no support cause I doubt it will pass, good suggestion tho @Dieze

It probably won't pass, but I want to get your opinion on what I posted above.

 

Support. Vouches off site mean nothing because other sites can have different rules and regulations which would make a sale/trade not meet the requirements of sythe, and there is also no way to prove that A ( owner of sythe account) is B ( owner of off site account with lots of vouches), nor can sythe prove that the individual is in fact the original owner of the off site account.

For example, someone can have lik $10000+ in graphics services, gold or script sales, or even real life trades, but...

1. Graphics can't receive vouches on sythe
2. There is no way to properly vet those vouches and is too time consuming for our moderators to look into
3. No way to prove beyond a doubt that the person in question is the OG owner of the account they are using as vouches

I already think that offsite vouches are retarded anyways, I fought w sonia about it for a while on discord when this came up cause she believed it was fine to use skype or discord vouches, which it is not. Graphics sadly can't receive vouches, although I believe sellers should be allowed to receive vouches, they are doing a SERVICE. Even if you can look into offsite vouches it wouldn't even matter cause they can be faked regardless, and we have no way of seeing if the user self vouched. But ya, idk why you wanted my opinion specifically. I can't even view vouches or anything rn sadly so ya.. stuck in a sad boat. I just think that vouches should be left to the vouch section, and threads shouldn't be bumpable via vouches being left on threads, aka leave bumping only for the bump button. As stated in another thread.. so ya hope that answers your question?

 

[Storm Fox]

Allowing off-site vouches on sythe would help people expand their business on sythe if they were only on powerbot/tribot/osbot or other forums

 

[Eazy E]

I already think that offsite vouches are retarded anyways, I fought w sonia about it for a while on discord when this came up cause she believed it was fine to use skype or discord vouches, which it is not. Graphics sadly can't receive vouches, although I believe sellers should be allowed to receive vouches, they are doing a SERVICE. Even if you can look into offsite vouches it wouldn't even matter cause they can be faked regardless, and we have no way of seeing if the user self vouched. But ya, idk why you wanted my opinion specifically. I can't even view vouches or anything rn sadly so ya.. stuck in a sad boat. I just think that vouches should be left to the vouch section, and threads shouldn't be bumpable via vouches being left on threads, aka leave bumping only for the bump button. As stated in another thread.. so ya hope that answers your question?

Yeah you seemed reasonable for other suggestions so I just asked. I had no idea DNT means you can see someone’s vouches.

Yeah Skype and discord vouches mean nothing. It they are allowed I would have at least $300 in extra sales ( just me selling accounts about a year ago ).

Good points

 

[Eazy E]

Allowing off-site vouches on sythe would help people expand their business on sythe if they were only on powerbot/tribot/osbot or other forums

But they are too easily faked and you can vouch for someone’s offsite activity.

All those sites you listed can have different rules which makes a deal legit, rules that might not apply to Sythe, and might not be as sound as a vouch from Sythe.

There is just no true way to confirm if the sales are legit are not.

 

[Storm Fox]

But they are too easily faked and you can vouch for someone’s offsite activity.

All those sites you listed can have different rules which makes a deal legit, rules that might not apply to Sythe, and might not be as sound as a vouch from Sythe.

There is just no true way to confirm if the sales are legit are not.

Yeah i see what you're saying.

 

[Eazy E]

Yeah i see what you're saying.

However, it is also odd that we can ban someone on this site, when they got a ban on another site.

That's on thing that makes your argument more compelling because if we can do that why cant the good ones bring their vouches over....

It's like I want to agree with you, but at the same time I just think sythe would be better off without it

 

[Storm Fox]

However, it is also odd that we can ban someone on this site, when they got a ban on another site.

That's on thing that makes your argument more compelling because if we can do that why cant the good ones bring their vouches over....

It's like I want to agree with you, but at the same time I just think sythe would be better off without it

Is that really a thing? If someone gets banned for breaking a rule on another site, they get banned on here too?

 

[Eazy E]

Is that really a thing? If someone gets banned for breaking a rule on another site, they get banned on here too?

well yes kinda. I mean if someone scams a sythe user on osbot, and they get a 6 month ban on osbot, I am pretty sure they may get DNT/TWC or even just banned for off site scamming.

There was a pretty big OSbot user here recently whot got banned for it I am pretty sure.

Not to sure7 about his name, but he was a large sythe donor, had a profile picture of a rs07 character with a party hat on, and had a lot of vouches. Maybe someone here will tag him and you can look through the archives and see why he was banned. In the meantime Ill try to find an example.

 

[Storm Fox]

well yes kinda. I mean if someone scams a sythe user on osbot, and they get a 6 month ban on osbot, I am pretty sure they may get DNT/TWC or even just banned for off site scamming.

There was a pretty big OSbot user here recently whot got banned for it I am pretty sure.

Not to sure7 about his name, but he was a large sythe donor, had a profile picture of a rs07 character with a party hat on, and had a lot of vouches. Maybe someone here will tag him and you can look through the archives and see why he was banned. In the meantime Ill try to find an example.

I guess that makes sense though. Why let someone keep trading when they scammed someone offsite.

 

[ShawnIsThaBeast]

agree i dont cheat on sythe its a marriage

 

[gambling_babz]

since that is my vouch copy paste, i may be biased, but obviously no1 cares about your vouches after 1k and 1003 and 1005 or 2k or 2.1k or 4.2k, no1 really checks that, they only check if your legit, good price or bad, compare prices(maybe) and then the sale follows.

Besides that, if someone is trusted on sythe, he is trusted on powerbot, if u have 2k feedback on powerbot does that make you untrustworthy on sythe because u have 5 for example here? All legitimate feedback and vouches should count. No customer vouches on more than 1 place, the copy paste is based on the fact we have no idea where the customer comes from. Its hard to get a customer to vouch on 1 place, yet alone on 5.

Completely agreed here. In addition to that, if your doing off-site work, it doesn't even mean that it's directly related to Sythe.org. Cool, you advertise your site here, that doesn't mean you can ONLY vouch on Sythe. If I had a powerleveling site and got traffic to it I'm not going to take time out of my day to figure out where a person came from when the trade isn't DIRECTLY on Sythe as the trade didn't even GO DOWN on Sythe.

 

From live chat it is sometimes difficult to track where the customer has come from.

On the "referrer" section sometimes it will just say "Direct Traffic".
This is when a user clicks a no-follow backlink on a thread topic or a link embedded on a banner/signature.

The problem then is that the customer could be from Sythe, Powerbot, or elsewhere and there is no way of knowing so using a live chat shortcut with all links is convenient for the site owner, his employees in the live chat, and the customer.

If the screenshot you posted is from skype, the problem with skype just from my experience is that now skype has updated, pretty much anybody can message me out of the blue and it will automatically send me a contact request if they haven't messaged me before. (Instead of adding first, then talking later, like in the past).

When a customer comes to me on skype they usually don't say where they are from, or how they found me. They usually immediately start asking about the product/service I am offering. My assistant, Lilly, uses our skype more than me and from her training she knows just to answer the customer's questions and if she needs help with an order to contact me. She doesn't really know anything about the forums or the vouch systems so that's something I handle. If the customer doesn't state where he/she is from then usually I don't look up their skype to try and find them and leave a vouch, I just leave the sale as closed with both the customer and I satisfied, just without leaving a vouch.

The main part of your suggestion that is most problematic is that I think it would be difficult to police 4 vouches being left on 4 different markets, instead of just Sythe. The only way this would work is if all market staff from each site worked together, which will most likely never happen.

If a customer finds me through a sales topic on Powerbot and we do a deal, then that makes them a "customer from powerbot" right? So what happens if next tuesday the same user is also registered on sythe, then for some reason sees a sales topic on sythe and messages me to purchase. Does that make them a sythe customer now, or are they to only vouch on powerbot as that's how we initially did business?

With the above thoughts typed up I have mixed feelings on this. I won't "no support" it yet as my opinion could be swayed after reading what others have said, especially if they identify something I haven't considered. I also will not support it due to the initial thoughts I have typed above.

All that being said I wouldn't mind at all if this passed as it wouldn't really effect me.

i think you slightly missed the point. The easiest way to police this would to go back to the old ruling (or current according to @Shin) and disallow offsite vouches from being used on sythe.

It wouldnt matter if the same guy vouched 4 times on each forum someone operates on; it wouldnt matter if you dont know where the user came from in order to vouch in the right area. Because they wont be double counted if we're not allowing them to be referenced here in market titles / etc.

 

i think you slightly missed the point. The easiest way to police this would to go back to the old ruling (or current according to @Shin) and disallow offsite vouches from being used on sythe.

It wouldnt matter if the same guy vouched 4 times on each forum someone operates on; it wouldnt matter if you dont know where the user came from in order to vouch in the right area. Because they wont be double counted if we're not allowing them to be referenced here in market titles / etc.

Ahh it wasn't clear in OP. When you mentioned the part about 4 vouches for one trade I thought your suggestion was simply about that. For example, I sell 1B 07 on powerbot, then have a vouch here, and 3 other markets (aka an offsite trade/feedback).

So in that case I support as there's too many market users atm operating as syndicates behind the scenes and having offsite vouches from shared profiles inflating their actual onsite count.

As far as I'm aware it is against the rules anyway, at least for in titles.

I do think it should be allowed in the vouch section in the topic (not title), such as in mine: Lime's Vouch Thread

My reasoning for this is so people do know I am "Liam" from powerbot. It is the only place I link to it, and I never add those 1000+ feedback ratings to any of my titles or topics

 

[Program]

I know a lot of people a year or two back were claiming 2k vouches because counting offsite vouches as feedback was allowed. That annoyed me because it was being severely abused. People were claiming way more vouches than they had and no mod had the time to go look at every forum that user was involved in and count their vouches. The only thing I think should be honored from other sites is bans. Everything else should be disallowed imo.

 

I know a lot of people a year or two back were claiming 2k vouches because counting offsite vouches as feedback was allowed. That annoyed me because it was being severely abused. People were claiming way more vouches than they had and no mod had the time to go look at every forum that user was involved in and count their vouches. The only thing I think should be honored from other sites is bans. Everything else should be disallowed imo.

Obviously some forums have to be calced, like sythe but powerbot osbot and playerauctions have it calculated instantly

 

[Program]

Obviously some forums have to be calced, like sythe but powerbot osbot and playerauctions have it calculated instantly

Either way that's too much work to have to verify everyone's vouch count on any sites they may be associated with. There's no requirement to even provide where those numbers come from, like which sites. So it's unverifiable.

Anyway, seems like just another one of these things that sites do that are shrewd and imo sketchy business tactics everyone seems okay with.

 

Either way that's too much work to have to verify everyone's vouch count on any sites they may be associated with. There's no requirement to even provide where those numbers come from, like which sites. So it's unverifiable.

Anyway, seems like just another one of these things that sites do that are shrewd and imo sketchy business tactics everyone seems okay with.

At the same time sites dont need the offsite feedback we do 1k trades a month up to with buying selling powerleveling etc so its easy to get 1k plus on sythe, its being abused by newcommers i guess and people with ill intentions.