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x339's Thoughts...

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I love how you're ignoring the multiple requests to make a list of your concerns. My best guess is that it's gotten to the point that you can't make any more valid arguments and you're just bitching for the sake of it. Or for pride.
(Make the damn list.)


If somebody has an interest in the topic they should be able to read all his arguments without needing a list to dumb it down to be honest.

His topics are clear and his argument for them is shown with his solution he believes will work. It is a lot to take in but a person who wants to argue his points should be able to make their own jot notes if needed
 
I love how you're ignoring the multiple requests to make a list of your concerns. My best guess is that it's gotten to the point that you can't make any more valid arguments and you're just bitching for the sake of it. Or for pride.
(Make the damn list.)

I was going to explain it, but Punjabi did it for me. I don't want people only reading the list and not paying attention to details, which I guarantee would happen.

If somebody has an interest in the topic they should be able to read all his arguments without needing a list to dumb it down to be honest.

His topics are clear and his argument for them is shown with his solution he believes will work. It is a lot to take in but a person who wants to argue his points should be able to make their own jot notes if needed
 
Staff ought to stop being so unprofessional. It is incontrovertible that in many areas x339 makes valid points. It's risible to suggest that the site is perfect, so constructive criticism, such as that offered by x339, should not be dismissed by staff members keen to refute each and every point made. Take it on board and something may be gained.

This forum exists in a capacity for those that have something to say about the site, its mechanics, staff, and so on, to go ahead and say so, without becoming a victim of scorn.

I love how you're ignoring the multiple requests to make a list of your concerns. My best guess is that it's gotten to the point that you can't make any more valid arguments and you're just bitching for the sake of it. Or for pride.
(Make the damn list.)

Unprofessional and rude. If you want to cultivate a theme of honesty and transparent expression in this forum, this sort of response to people's feedback ought to be strongly discouraged by staff. Rather than converging unitedly upon an individual who has come here to express his views, converge upon the staff members that help fuel the flames of staff-user conflicts such as this one.
 
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Yes, you are correct Finn. My apologies, x339. I think that I have too much of a personal bias and not that much to contribute anyways so I will cease posting here.
 
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Although I think yes, making specific points would be targeted, is this not targeted as well? Make a list for us, or maybe just me personally. I would love to see the suggestions that you have for us, or even come up with some together if ideas are to be had.

I think most of us understand that their is something wrong, but while we agree/disagree with what it is, perhaps give us something to support. I, again much against personal biases or possible prejudices, would love, love, LOVE to see what could become out of a group of clear, unbiased suggestions based off of careful thought, regardless of how others may be opposed (based on a position of self-interest and self-furtherance, which seems to be the case in much of Sythe's history).

Is this something we could collaborate, as a site and a whole, in?
 
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Although I think yes, making specific points would be targeted, is this not targeted as well? Make a list for us, or maybe just me personally. I would love to see the suggestions that you have for us, or even come up with some together if ideas are to be had.

I think most of us understand that their is something wrong, but while we agree/disagree with what it is, perhaps give us something to support. I, again much against personal biases or possible prejudices, would love, love, LOVE to see what could become out of a group of clear, unbiased suggestions based off of careful thought, regardless of how others may be opposed (based on a position of self-interest and self-furtherance, which seems to be the case in much of Sythe's history).

Is this something we could collaborate, as a site and a whole, in?


Check the first page. It includes a well thoughout, carefully wrote list of suggestions and grievances. It may be long, but if you just make a list you are missing 90% of the information. Which, as Punjabi said, if you don't care to you read it then it would be useless to make a list.
 
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I just think 98% of Sythe (including Globals and Admins) have at one point, seen/viewed this thread. It has been days since the thread was created and since then, this thread has been an excuse to complain, rage, criticize, patronize, and spam. I respect x339 for voicing out what is on his mind, but think this thread has gotten to the point of where it should be closed now.

Obviously since the thread was written, there has been no intentions from anyone (including Richard himself whom Ive seen viewing this thread) of anything being changed. Every time I view this this all I see is x339 vs everyone. Can anyone tell me what is the point of continuing this thread lol???

I completely disagree. Have you read the thread?

In my opinion this is the best thread anyone has made in quite a while. While it may annoy some us, or anger others, it DOES bring up some valid points.

That being said, I disagree with some, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Should we let the few who disagree with what he has brought up silence the discussion?


Check the first page. It includes a well thoughout, carefully wrote list of suggestions and grievances. It may be long, but if you just make a list you are missing 90% of the information. Which, as Punjabi said, if you don't care to you read it then it would be useless to make a list.

Staff ought to stop being so unprofessional. It is incontrovertible that in many areas x339 makes valid points. It's risible to suggest that the site is perfect, so constructive criticism, such as that offered by x339, should not be dismissed by staff members keen to refute each and every point made. Take it on board and something may be gained.

This forum exists in a capacity for those that have something to say about the site, its mechanics, staff, and so on, to go ahead and say so, without becoming a victim of scorn.



Unprofessional and rude. If you want to cultivate a theme of honesty and transparent expression in this forum, this sort of response to people's feedback ought to be strongly discouraged by staff. Rather than converging unitedly upon an individual who has come here to express his views, converge upon the staff members that help fuel the flames of staff-user conflicts such as this one.

If somebody has an interest in the topic they should be able to read all his arguments without needing a list to dumb it down to be honest.

His topics are clear and his argument for them is shown with his solution he believes will work. It is a lot to take in but a person who wants to argue his points should be able to make their own jot notes if needed

HUGELY agree with a feedback system!
It's SO MUCH better than vouches.
MMOExchange has a WONDERFUL example of a great feedback system.
One person initiates transaction, other person accepts transaction, they do the transaction, they leave feedback for each other.

You can see each persons Feedback (# of vouches) near their username by each post, and can click it to read each and every one of the vouches.

Saves a lot of work of asking for vouches etc, making a vouch thread, organizing it to look pretty, numbering it, etc etc. It also lets everyone very easily just click the FeedBack by a user's post and see all the vouches!


Hello all.

For a start, I'd like to say good on x339 for voicing his concerns. On this site, there is a culture of asskissing and treating those that do not conform like dirt. I am more than ready to acknowledge that, during my time as staff, I did little to challenge this approach. I'm older & wiser now and have the benefit of life to say that merely because someone has a different attitude, this should not make their opinion redundant - rather they ought to be lauded for their willingness to step aside from the crowd and say what they think.

Having said that, I don't necessarily agree with everything x339 has said, but, again, this does not mean his suggestions shouldn't be held with as much regard as those put forward by staff members. After all, this site caters to more than 300,000 people - not a select elite few. Anyway, I'll point out the concerns that I think are valid and those that I feel are less so.



This is correct. If you were to promote any old individual to Administrator, you would witness great activity - indeed, activity disproportionate to that displayed by our current Administrators. However, and this is key to note, you would also witness diminished quality. As an Administrator, your most important characteristic facets are your articulacy, judgement, and sharpness. In all honesty, any idiot can sit and do spam reports all night. Administrators are where they are for a reason - because they have displayed superior judgement and a willingness to tackle and dealing situations that Globals are otherwise characteristically unable or unwilling to tackle.

In light of this, the concept of ''activity'' when applied to Administrators ought to be considered. When thinking about Globals & sectionals, it is easy to point out who is and is not inactive. This is largely due to the extent to which these staff members post and tackle various reports. Administrators do not, and should not, be doing these. For this reason, their activity ought to be considered on a separate scale. The activity of an Administrator largely cannot be gauged by an average user. This is simply the case, and protestations regarding things ''being behind the scenes'' are futile considering that this is frankly the way it must be regarding certain matters, and it is in these matters, as my experience allows me to indicate, that Administrators are not only active, but also display decisiveness and leadership.



Crowded? How can an Administrator group be crowded? Is this a suggestion that it looks distasteful on the Forum Leaders page? Unless the Administrators deem themselves to be an unsatisfactory and ill-functioning group, they cannot be deemed a crowded group.



Historically we have had cases where Administrators have went further than intended, so they have been stripped down to the necessities with which they need to function. This is not problematic - there exist tiers for a reason; if an Administrator qualifies for advanced privileges, they will accordingly find themselves advanced in the tier system. This is natural and applies to all Sythe.org staff.



I agree.



As far as I can see, the General Administrators are very much part of the community. Their role, as defined by the thread, is to deal with matters such as IP bans. Whether people like to hear it or not, Administrators mainly exist in a behind-the-scenes capacity; this is inherent to their role. Again, speaking from experience, I can say with confidence that the general Administrators, at least those that I experienced - Govind & Giverny - at least contributed to important staff discussions with their points of view.



I agree.



As I outlined in your past thread, I consider this a subjective and emotional perceptive. Objectively, since joining in 2007, I have watched Sythe.org's member base triple.

Again, good on x339 for voicing his views - he shouldn't be victimised or hounded for doing so; his thread ought to help facilitate discourse. Again, though, I'd distance myself from saying I agree with all points made. There are a great number of people that give a large amount of time to help this site function.

Runescape is insanely huge. The reason we aren't as active as we should be, has been addressed by x339. Take a look at player auctions (Runescape section), please. I'd love for you to. That just proves how active Runescape is. Runescape has been going for 10 years, and has been strong for as long as it's been going.

For as many people who black market on Runescape, a fine number should be interested in cheap services, gold, etc.. It poses the question, why aren't they on Sythe? Why do they go to Gold4Fun, RSORDER, etc, and not to our market base? Riddle me that ~

I agree with most of what you are saying. I've also witnessed during my time in Sythe that people are afraid to voice their opinion. Like you mentioned, if you step in the feedback section, all you see is "pats on the back" and ass-kissing. Once in a while you will see someone voice their true opinion like you are currently doing but that person is usually outnumbered by so many ass-kissers which leads the person to not bother anymore. No one then ever treats the person the way they use to anymore. This goes for whether the feedback was constructive or not, the outcome is always the same.

One slight thing - I know this is a small point, but I really think the vouch system is better than the feedback/rep system.

Feedback is misguiding. Although staff try to prevent it, there are always some hooligans who try to do a hundred two dollar trades just for vouches. While you can also include comments for the value of the trade or whatever, most people (and newcomers) will not go the extra distance to one or two more weblinks or whatever, to see the actual value and quality of the trades.
That is what I like about vouches over feedback - you can see the quality, value, and satisfaction.

In addition, would you have feedback lower over time, or have everybody keep the same feedback forever?
Vouches help tell how active a user has been recently, something that would be impossible to tell with just a number (feedback).

Maybe I'm just completely misunderstanding the feedback system you propose, but that is at least my opinion.

I do agree with you on some of the other points though, this is just the one I'm most opposed to.

I have been on Sythe since 2010 and was lurking a while before joining. I have never played or intend to play Runescape, but i still love to come to Sythe to talk to people and visit the xbox market and other general discussion threads. I do agree that this place is a little behind in the tech elements. My point in all this is not everyone is here for the runescape market or discussions a majority of the Sythe users are but there are others like me who have never even played Runescape and are still here. Kudos to you for standing up for what you think. I would like to see some newer stuff to the site as it seems the same as when i joined. <3
 
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@Alma: You're posts are gone but A) A list is needed. I've explained why multiple times and I won't again. B) That was not sarcasm and suggesting it was is highly disrespectful and very insulting. C) Thinking we can do everything that x339 has suggested in a few days is simply ridiculous.

Now I spoke to Govind. General admins have all the admin powers they need to run the staff and run the forum. They have no need for any more permissions at all. That's #2 on my list already done (isn't it nice that we can easily see all and recall everything he wanted to suggest without going through all the backstory again?).

HUGELY agree with a feedback system!
It's SO MUCH better than vouches.
MMOExchange has a WONDERFUL example of a great feedback system.
One person initiates transaction, other person accepts transaction, they do the transaction, they leave feedback for each other.

You can see each persons Feedback (# of vouches) near their username by each post, and can click it to read each and every one of the vouches.

Saves a lot of work of asking for vouches etc, making a vouch thread, organizing it to look pretty, numbering it, etc etc. It also lets everyone very easily just click the FeedBack by a user's post and see all the vouches!

This can be discussed. A feedback system was added to the DNS list because it was not a feedback system. It was basically a rep system (plus rep for this post) and we didn't want that. I'm assuming that if anyone posted about a feedback system without clearly explaining pros and cons and the like it would just get lumped with the rep system. Prove me wrong by finding me a suggestion like that that got denied.

Donations are handled through third parties that have to go through a bonding process. Then when you finally get your first $5 donation through RSGP you can donate via PP, the only thing is that the PP account for donations is messed up. I digress back to the bonding process though the third party has to then resell the gold and it can take quite some time to get your rank if Matthew is backed up. How can it be fixed? I don't know honestly, re-instate mail/WU donation option straight to Matthew, look into other payment methods such as possibly BTC or some system similar to paypal that doesn't charge ridiculous fees because things like onebip has really crazy fees associated with it.

By Forum Tech I mean we finally need to get vB4 that has been promised to us for several months now. Then look into other things to improve the board - new plugins, new themes, just things to make the site look and function up to par with modern boards. I am not expert on vB but I am quite experienced with different forums and I know that there is much more that can be done with the boards.

This also can be discussed. Matthew can change the rules for Paypal donations and he is already aware of the issues surrounding donations and stuff and will be working to make everything run smoother. I can't give you a timeframe as he had a very busy real life right now but it will be done eventually. Have some patience.
 
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I've already explained why I won't make a simple list, and others have agreed and understood why I won't. Sorry if you don't like it, but I am simply not going to do it.

How do things change then? If your worried that it's going to be shot down, how will changes ever go into effect? Fuck mate, if you have any ideas, send em to me and I'LL suggest them. I'm not worried about being shot down over and over, and dealing with all the bullshit from people that you've stated before would happen.

I just don't see the point of this thread unless we TRY to change things.

EDIT: I understand you have 'listed' some improvements that you believe should be made. But you haven't given us the answers, your thoughts/suggestions, or even a little bit of guidance as to how we should fix these problems.
 
How do things change then? If your worried that it's going to be shot down, how will changes ever go into effect? Fuck mate, if you have any ideas, send em to me and I'LL suggest them. I'm not worried about being shot down over and over, and dealing with all the bullshit from people that you've stated before would happen.

I just don't see the point of this thread unless we TRY to change things.

EDIT: I understand you have 'listed' some improvements that you believe should be made. But you haven't given us the answers, your thoughts/suggestions, or even a little bit of guidance as to how we should fix these problems.

~_~ For the millionth time, everything I am suggesting is in the thread. I made very clear suggestions backed up by my points and details. I am not going to make a simple list of the things I've already said because it's just going to cause more problems for me then I'd care to deal with. Read the thread, if you forgot part of it and don't want to re-read it then I am sorry, but I am not changing my mind.
 
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~_~ For the millionth time, everything I am suggesting is in the thread. I made very clear suggestions back up by my points and details. I am not going to make a simple list of the things I've already said because it's just going to cause more problems for me then I'd care to deal with. Read the thread, if you forgot part of it and don't want to re-read it then I am sorry, but I am not changing my mind.

I've read the thread, multiple times.

Read my post. If you are unwilling to make a simple list and put it out there because of the 'problems it would cause you', how the hell are you going to change anything? Or for that matter how do you expect anyone else to?

Anyone showing support for you is right, but so wrong. Supporting something that is literally going in circles for lack of concrete ideals that can be laid down and decided upon is supporting the idea of nothing at all.

I like many of your 'suggestions' although they are not nearly as refined nor particular as I and many others would like. I have to ask why you posted this in the beginning if you never planned on making a difference to start with.
 
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This thread seems to have evolved from 'Hey, admins, please care a little more' to 'Let's fucking change everything and evolve past the point we actually can.' I'm not going to spend a lot of time chewing out everyone for every specific thing they say, but I'd like to make a statement:

Sythe's growth is proportionate to Runescape Real-World trading. Yes, there are other things, but that's what it's based on and that's the core. Powerbot will always be popular in terms of members as long as they have their botting clients. Many people bot personally, but not everyone has hundreds to blow on Runescape Gold or other trades all the time. We had a major boom during free trade, and it's slowly dying down as it should. The only way we would be able to increase the activity is introducing something revolutionary such as a bot or something else, where people will come to Sythe to. Otherwise, it's fine the way it is, and although it would be nice if more improvements were implemented with proper support of the community, none of it will majorly affect the activity of the website. People could care less about improvements to the software. They will still come to trade. Yes, it would be nice if we had vB4, more PM space, a bump button, and more, but it will not change the core of what Sythe do be is. Ya dig? #skweezyrecords #yolo #formercashmoney
 
I've read the thread, multiple times.

Read my post. If you are unwilling to make a simple list and put it out there because of the 'problems it would cause you', how the hell are you going to change anything? Or for that matter how do you expect anyone else to?

Anyone showing support for you is right, but so wrong. Supporting something that is literally going in circles for lack of concrete ideals that can be laid down and decided upon is supporting the idea of nothing at all.

I like many of your 'suggestions' although they are not nearly as refined nor particular as I and many others would like. I have to ask why you posted this in the beginning if you never planned on making a difference to start with.

Alright think about it, if I made a list of this, this, and this (basically just a copy and paste from my OP), and people read it. I am going to hear endless idiotic babble because none of them bothered to pay attention to the details, and so they instantly shoot it down. The issues are much more complicated then "I want this, this, and this done", they require analysis, details, explanation, and so on. It requires more then just looking at a simple bulleted list of what I think should change. The only reason this thread would be going in circles is because the staff are refusing to participate. I could tell YOU all about what i wanted, but is that really going to matter? Hardly, because you're not in the position to change anything, and if you want to just repeat what I said in list form then you're going to have deal with the same things I am dealing with.
 
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Alright think about it, if I made a list of this, this, and this (basically just a copy and paste from my OP), and people read it. I am going to hear endless idiotic babble because none of them bothered to pay attention to the details, and so they instantly shoot it down. The issues are much more complicated then "I want this, this, and this done", they require analysis, details, explanation, and so on. It requires more then just looking at a simple bulleted list of what I think should change. The only reason this thread would be going in circles is because the staff are refusing to participate. I could tell YOU all about what i wanted, but is that really going to matter? Hardly, because you're not in the position to change anything, and if you want to just repeat what I said in list form then you're going to have deal with the same things I am dealing with.

And the difference between A) That thread (which you COULD make) B) This one?

At least in that one(B), those who DO support you (and there are quite a few of us, despite insistence of the opposite :s ) could voice SPECIFIC points that we do support. If you're not in the view point that that thread would matter, does this accomplish any more than that? And what was the point in posting this to start with? I (and others, regardless of whether your ideas would get shot down by them) wish for your suggestions. I disagree with your point that sending me (or for that matter, ANYONE else) your ideas and wants would change nothing; It would change MORE than nothing, which is exactly what is being changed by NOT allowing them to be seen as such.

If all you were looking for is staff support, you sure have not gained it through your repeated denial of requests for concrete, organized, and seperated suggestions. You can't support what has NOT been suggested, and you can blame no one other than yourself for that.
 
This thread seems to have evolved from 'Hey, admins, please care a little more' to 'Let's fucking change everything and evolve past the point we actually can.' I'm not going to spend a lot of time chewing out everyone for every specific thing they say, but I'd like to make a statement:

Sythe's growth is proportionate to Runescape Real-World trading. Yes, there are other things, but that's what it's based on and that's the core. Powerbot will always be popular in terms of members as long as they have their botting clients. Many people bot personally, but not everyone has hundreds to blow on Runescape Gold or other trades all the time. We had a major boom during free trade, and it's slowly dying down as it should. The only way we would be able to increase the activity is introducing something revolutionary such as a bot or something else, where people will come to Sythe to. Otherwise, it's fine the way it is, and although it would be nice if more improvements were implemented with proper support of the community, none of it will majorly affect the activity of the website. People could care less about improvements to the software. They will still come to trade. Yes, it would be nice if we had vB4, more PM space, a bump button, and more, but it will not change the core of what Sythe do be is. Ya dig? #skweezyrecords #yolo #formercashmoney

This is essentially exactly how it is IMO, we cannot bring any new faces because RWT isn't something that just gets bigger through advertising, everyone who plays RS knows about RWT and they'll know how to find us.. we are on the first page for "RS blackmarket".

To grow we need something that attracts new users; it could be an official release of a bot, private server, or something such as that.

As for the admin thing; Its really a bit of a weird situation, According to their position description as dictated by Sythe himself, they are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing, and according to your expectations of what an administrator should be, they're not. Any staff member here who can see the Staff Lounge(s) will understand they do indeed put a large amount of their free time into this site despite every one of them working fully outside of sythe.
 
And the difference between A) That thread (which you COULD make) B) This one?

At least in that one(B), those who DO support you (and there are quite a few of us, despite insistence of the opposite :s ) could voice SPECIFIC points that we do support. If you're not in the view point that that thread would matter, does this accomplish any more than that? And what was the point in posting this to start with? I (and others, regardless of whether your ideas would get shot down by them) wish for your suggestions. I disagree with your point that sending me (or for that matter, ANYONE else) your ideas and wants would change nothing; It would change MORE than nothing, which is exactly what is being changed by NOT allowing them to be seen as such.

If all you were looking for is staff support, you sure have not gained it through your repeated denial of requests for concrete, organized, and seperated suggestions. You can't support what has NOT been suggested, and you can blame no one other than yourself for that.

Again, my concrete suggestions are in the thread, read it again if you have to.

This is essentially exactly how it is IMO, we cannot bring any new faces because RWT isn't something that just gets bigger through advertising, everyone who plays RS knows about RWT and they'll know how to find us.. we are on the first page for "RS blackmarket".

To grow we need something that attracts new users; it could be an official release of a bot, private server, or something such as that.

As for the admin thing; Its really a bit of a weird situation, According to their position description as dictated by Sythe himself, they are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing, and according to your expectations of what an administrator should be, they're not. Any staff member here who can see the Staff Lounge(s) will understand they do indeed put a large amount of their free time into this site despite every one of them working fully outside of sythe.

That's the biggest problem we have right now. Everyone is limiting sythe to the RS market. Why? Last I checked we were the craigslist of virtual goods, not the craigslist of RS. Currently the RS market is our biggest one, which is good because it is keep us afloat. We need to be thinking of how we can expand on everything else, not just the RS market (and I hardly think we've got every single RWTer on this site already). As I showed before, the diablo 2 & diablo 3 market is huge, the WoW market out there isn't quite as big, but it's still bigger than what we've got going. The opportunities for other markets to grow is a huge one, but no one does anything about that. Again I go back to the Diablo 3 market, we had the chance to be big, we literally had one of the first Diablo 3 markets on the internet, and the opportunity was blown. Sythe made no effort to advertise it, no one made any effort to draw people to (other than a few people such as myself and n4n0 who advertised it in-game) the market. It just sat there. It sat there while everyone just hoped it would gain activity. I fear the same will happen to the GW2 market when it is released as well.
 
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Again, my concrete suggestions are in the thread, read it again if you have to.

Hello everyone, it’s me again. Yea yea I know, “l0l noob I new u’d be back”, and yes I am, but only for my last little hoo-rah. Since I’ve left I have been lurking on other sites similair to sythe such as, d2jsp, ownedcore, and powerbot, and my biggest fears for sythe were realized. Sythe is lightyears behind in forum tech and activity. It made me realize that not only was I right about sythe never growing, but we are falling behind as well. How can we expect to compete with forums that have double, or even triple our activity? I am going to do my best to outline every problem I can think of, and hopefully people will finally open their minds instead of continuing to block out everything negative they hear. Please do not post until you have read everything I have to say, and only if it is constructive.
Opening statement, great.

I. Admins
My last thread was mainly concerned with the Admins. I believe I outlined my main feelings about them, and unfortunatley it did not end well. Not only did only 2 of them even acknowledge the feedback, but they completely refused to even take it into consideration. That is the first main problem, threads such as mine are all handled the same way. Instead of talking to the OP, the accused will point out the smallest flaw and blow it up. Even if has almost nothing to do with the main idea, the flaw will be taken and stretched to the point where the accused can then say that everything the OP says is stupid and wrong. For example in my thread (http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1423659) I put across a majority of main ideas, and then somehow I was being brought down by the fact that I don’t know every little detail about how plugins effect the vulnerability of Sythe. Pretty specific huh? It’s kind of funny considering that was such a small part of my topic. Well that’s how things work, which leads to the next step of the process.

Outlining some problems, ok.

After a flaw has been found, that’s when all the lackies come on board. Once that flaw has been found, every single member who wants to prove themselves to the staff will instantly be against the OP. Essentially, the OP is bullied to the point where they are forced to give up. An example of this (http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1409487) . Perhaps the OP was wrong in how he approached the subject, and that can be expected considering it takes a while to become an expert in sythe policies, but his general idea was based on his experience. His post was based on what he had experienced, and what he had felt, yet the people who responded to him, insisted that he was wrong. Wrong. Apparently, people’s opinions can be wrong. I’ve noticed that’s not how things work around here. Unless you are a high ranking, well known member of the community, you’re opinion is wrong, and the staff’s opinion is right. This leads to what we have now, a staff feedback thread full of virtual high-fives, and pats on the back, and absolutley nothing negative is tolerated, which opens up all of the other problems I am going to get into.

More problem-outlining.


One of these problems, as I talked about in my other thread is admin activity. Other than Finn, no other admin has been overwhelmingly active. I have heard the excuses a million times over, “admins have jobs”, “admins have to work”, “Sythe is no-ones first priority”, well that’s all well and good, but it’s not helping anyone. Countless times I have heard that admin’s aren’t required to be very active, but why not? Maybe that’s Richard’s fault for instilling that policy. Inactive admin’s may do the job, but really, are they helping anything? Sure they can do the job, but I guarantee there are plenty of people who can do the same exact things, and would be active at it as well. If you have a full time job, and don’t have the time to give to sythe, or don’t feel the need to give time to sythe, then you shouldn’t be an admin. Plain and simple. Admin’s are the highest of authorities, and yet they think they don’t need to do anything outside of the listed requirements. I also find it ironic that the general admins are stripped of many admin permissions because Matthew and/or Richard feel that they will “break” things. That is just ridiculous, if you don’t trust someone in the position, then why are they there? Richard, Matthew, and Govind are the “tech experts”, so they get all the permissions. Why? I may not know the extent of it, but if someone is an admin, they should atleast have the ability to do things admins do, such as give out a rank. This is especially important considering the “tech experts” do not feel they need to be present at all. That leaves us with 3 admins, who may put some activity forward, but what are they really other than some less active, glorified globals.

More problems... (which, btw, is the only part I disagree with)
What do I propose to do about this? Make Govind/Matthew soley the tech experts, having them in the admin position just makes the admin group more crowded, which leaves people with the feeling that there are too many admins. That is of course unless they decide to start become more active. I understand your skills are necessary, and very beneficial, but unless you’re going to fill the entire role, don’t bother. Next, require the current general admins to be a part of the community. If you can’t do things the other admins can do, then what is your role? Handing out bans, closing threads? Sounds like a global’s job to me. If you’re not going to have the power to do other things, then what’s the point of having you?

Your first real suggestion...


It would be very good for everyone if the admins were more involved. Participate in contests, post around more, do your best to support and grow the community. That’s what you need to do. Don’t sit back and just do the minimum requirements, you’re not helping anyone by doing that, there are plenty of people who can do that. If you have a job and can’t do that, then resign, you’re not helping anyone by doing what you’re doing. As I have said a million and one times, the admin role is a huge role to fill on a forum, so if you can’t fill it, you’re not doing anyone a favor by doing only what’s required of you.

Back to problems... Nothing really concrete at all in there.

I’d like to hope that instead of just doing the bully-until-it-dies tactic you will take this all into consideration.

Closing.


II. Forum Tech
Lately, as I stated in my opening paragraph, I have been browsing other forums similair to sythe such as powerbot and ownedcore. I can honestly say I was blown away by how much sythe is lacking, and how far it is behind other forums. One can compare powerbot to Sythe and see how horribly behind Sythe is. (Please don’t bring up the people on powerbot because that is not what we are discussing, and I know it’s going to be one of those nitpicky points that people will try to use to make me out to be “wrong” in my opinion). The overall styles and features far surpass sythe. For example, a simple feature such as the bump timer:

GrPA


Think about how big of a problem bumping is on Sythe, and think of how a majority, maybe not all, but a majority of those problems could be avoided by using something as simple as that feature.

Ok... so a problem... I guess... and an 'example'. Nothing concrete.

Another feature we could talk about is the feedback system. It always confounds me as to why everyone is so against it. I think it’s probably because at some point someone said no, and so from now on everyone will defend to their grave that descision. Why? Well because a staff member said so. Why do ebay, amazon, and many other big market websites use a feedback system? Because it works. It keeps things organized an proffesional. So why is Sythe so against it? It goes back to my point from before, it has been denied at some point, and so it will never happen. Everyone is convinced that our system works, and so it doesn’t need to be changed. These are just a few of the features that sythe is lacking on. There are plenty more things that could be added to make things run better.

More problems...


On my previous thread I was told:



You know what that is? Lazy. Lazy, and ridiculous. This is directed towards the “tech admins”, if you think something is going to be a vulernability, then you work to protect it. Avoiding adding new things because you don’t want to put the time and effort into protecting it is just plain ridiculous. How can you expect to grow without change or adding things?

Problems.

There are plenty of features that the site could benefit from, and if you want to avoid those because it could open up a vulnerability that you should be protecting, because that is your sole job after all, then why are you on Sythe? If you don’t care, and you don’t want to help it grow, then why are you here? WHY is Sythe being run by people who simply don’t care! It’s mind boggling, and extremely frustrating.

"There are plenty of features that the site could benefit from" - What are they? You've listed two, and neither of them did you actually give concrete suggestions towards.

You can look at the VB4 upgrade as another example. VB4 brings many changes that are highly beneficial to the forum, and why don’t we have it yet? Because no one wants to put in the effort to making it happen. 3-4 months ago we heard “it’s almost done”, yeah well, that’s all well and good, but where is it? If you want to continue growing and flourshing, you have to put the effort in, or atleast put someone in charge who will.

This is, I guess, closer to a suggestion, so Ill go ahead and chalk this up as the second one.


III. Effects & Conclusion
I continue to stand by what I said before, Sythe is in a never ending state of limbo. We neither decline, nor grow. People move on, and new people come in, but really, we never grow. Eventually that will end. What happens when the runescape market, or runescape in general, dies? People can say it never will happen, but eventually it will. What will we have left over? People will leave in droves and sythe could collapse. How do we stop that, we grow the community. If we grow a community that is big enough to sustain far more than just runescape, well then we have a much more successful, much more profitable, and much more sustainable forum. Sure we can just stay where we are, and be in the constant state of limbo, but why not grow? I guarantee that when Sythe started, as any other forum does, the staff and the userbase did their best to put time, energy, and effort into making the site grow. I am an administrator on a new, growing forum, and I can see first hand right now all that is put into the site. We, the staff, and the userbase, are doing everything we can to grow, and it’s working. We don’t think “Eh what we have works”, we think “What we have is good, but how can it be better”. The lack of that feeling on Sythe is all to prevalent. We should be doing what we can to grow, so that instead of being like this:

GrSf


We can be like this:

GrSI


I want everyone to see that I am not trying to be the bad guy here. Why would I put this much time and effort into this if I just wanted to spite someone. PLEASE just take what I have into consideration, I have no interest in debating why my opinion is right or wrong, I just want to do my best to help the site grow. This is my last little hoo-rah, and maybe this time around it will work.


Conclusion... nothing in there.






So please please please tell me to read it again. I've read this numerous times SEARCHING for these concrete suggestions, but still they evade me.

Again, I support this and much of what you are saying... But this is not the way to bring about change.
 
Again, my concrete suggestions are in the thread, read it again if you have to.


Opening statement, great.



Outlining some problems, ok.



More problem-outlining.




More problems... (which, btw, is the only part I disagree with)


Your first real suggestion...




Back to problems... Nothing really concrete at all in there.



Closing.




Ok... so a problem... I guess... and an 'example'. Nothing concrete.



More problems...




Problems.



"There are plenty of features that the site could benefit from" - What are they? You've listed two, and neither of them did you actually give concrete suggestions towards.



This is, I guess, closer to a suggestion, so Ill go ahead and chalk this up as the second one.





Conclusion... nothing in there.






So please please please tell me to read it again. I've read this numerous times SEARCHING for these concrete suggestions, but still they evade me.

Again, I support this and much of what you are saying... But this is not the way to bring about change.

How many times must I tell you this. The problems are far more complicated then " I want A, B, and C done". If I made a suggestion thread that said "I want A, B, and C done" it would be flooded with the same things people are saying here. It's not just a matter of making a list of what you want done, it's a matter of addressing a problem, and working to change the overall attitude and feeling towards sythe that I feel many people have. This is the first step. If thoughts and ideas are changed, then we can start coming up with more specific ideas as to what can be done. This is how I feel I can bring about change, and I really think that this is what's necessary to do first. If you don't agree with that then sorry, but I don't see anyone else doing something about it.
 
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