Win $5,000!

[tutoneppis]

I see. well I think I can live the rest of my life by that, as long as I get to be the bartender and you can be God.

Erh Sure.
When do I seriously get my money?

 

[tutoneppis]

Bump! I want my money.

 

[m0er]

hmmm I think as a worshipper I should get 1/5th of the winnings

 

[Shredderbeam]

Give me a reason that explains why you don't believe in him.

The lack of reasons for his existence.

Dear Friend, I would challenge you to grow in your faith in Jesus Christ first of all. The evidence for Christianity is vast, unlike other religions, we have a Savior Who changed the course of history for all time, Who provided a supernatural proof of His deity through miracles, fulfilled prophecies, a life of purity, authoritative teachings and finally through His death and resurrection.
Jesus rose from the dead after 3 days in the grave proving He was all He claimed to be: God, the Son of God, the Messiah, Lord & Savior of all, one with the Father. Conquering death, He showed us His power to save us from our sins, and then bring us safely to heaven. He offers Himself as a gift to anyone who will trust Him . John 20:31 says: "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name". (NIV)
St. Paul writes in 1 Cor 15:3-8: "For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve.
After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born". (NIV)
Jesus' resurrection from the dead was verified by hundreds of witnesses. Today His grave still remains empty.
The apostle John writes in John 20:3-9: "So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen. Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed.
The question for all people is: Who do you believe Jesus Christ is? In the end, Jesus will judge all people and only through faith in Him can one be assured of eternal life. Here are some links for many articles on proofs for Christianity...... get ready to investigate and get ready to grow....
In Conversation with an Atheist Rick Wade writes:
"Of course, there are a number of reasons or grounds for believing. These include direct experience of God, the testimony of a people who claim to have known God, written revelation which makes sense (if one is open to the supernatural), philosophical and scientific corroboration, the historical reality of a man named Jesus who fulfilled prophecies and did miracles, etc...."

In God and Evolution: An Exchange between Howard Van Till and Phillip Johnson, Mr. Johnson argues:
"Perhaps the best way to start is by answering Howard Van Till's question: just what would biological history have been like if left to natural phenomena without God's participation? If God had created a lifeless world, even with oceans rich in amino acids and other organic molecules, and thereafter had left matters alone, life would not have come into existence.
If God had done nothing but create a world of bacteria and protozoa, it would still be a world of bacteria and protozoa. Whatever may have been the case in the remote past, the chemicals we see today have no observable tendency or ability to form living cells, and single-celled organisms have no observable tendency or ability to form complex plants and animals.
Persons who believe that chemicals unassisted by intelligence can combine to create life, or that bacteria can evolve by natural processes into complex animals, are making an a priori assumption that nature has the resources to do its own creating. I call such persons metaphysical naturalists. Throughout this reply, as in the original paper, I use the term "naturalism" in what Van Till would call the broad sense.
Of course, theists recognize that experience has shown that a great many phenomena have natural causes that are accessible to scientific investigation. To a theist there is nothing surprising about this, because the universe is a product of the mind of God and the inquiring mind of man was created in God's image..."

In Answering the Big Questions of Life Sue Bohlin writes: "There are two things in life you can be sure of.
1.There is a God.
2.You are not Him." Christian Theism answers the question, Why is there something rather than nothing, by confidently asserting that first there was God and nothing else, then He created the universe by simply speaking it into existence. The Bible's opening sentence is an answer to this most basic of questions: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth....
Theism says that there is such a thing as absolute truth, and absolute right and wrong. We can know this because this information has come to us from a transcendent source outside of ourselves and outside of our world.
Christian Theism says that the God who created us has also communicated certain truths to us. He communicated generally, through His creation, and He communicated specifically and understandably through His Word, the Bible. We call this revelation. Christian
Theism says that absolute truth is rooted in God Himself, who is an Absolute; He is Truth. As Creator, He has the right to tell us the difference between right and wrong, and He has taken great care to communicate this to us.
That's why Steven Covey's illustration was so powerful. When he pulled out a compass, he showed that we need a transcendent source of information, something outside ourselves and which is fixed and constant, to show us the moral equivalent of "North."
We are creatures created to be dependent on our Creator for the information we need to live life right. God has given us a compass in revelation....
The Christian world view gives the most satisfying answer to the question, How do you explain human nature? The Bible teaches that God created us to be His image-bearers, which makes us distinct from the entire rest of creation. But when Adam and Eve chose to rebel in disobedience, their fall into sin distorted and marred the sacred Image. The fact that we are created in God's image explains the noble, creative, positive things we can do; the fact that we are sinners who love to disobey and rebel against God's rightful place as King of our lives explains our wicked, destructive, negative behavior. It makes sense that this biblical view of human nature reveals the reasons why mankind is capable of producing both Mother Teresa and the holocaust. "

In The Folly of Denying God from the Christian Research Institute we read:
"Clearly, theism – the belief in a personal God who is the Creator and Ruler of the universe – is the only viable option on the question of God’s existence. Once this is established, it can be pointed out that only a personal God can account for human personality, thought, and morality. Furthermore, this personal God has manifested Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, who demonstrated His deity through the undeniable fact of the Resurrection. Additionally, God has provided His written Word which can be shown to be divine rather than human in origin."
Other articles on Probe:
How do we know God Exists? Other articles on Probe and Response to a Skeptic: How to Know God Personally
Other sites for information on Christianity to answer many questions: Gospelcom's Apologetics
ChristianAnswers.net
See Phillip Johnson's site for articles such as: Unraveling Scientific Materialism

These are just some articles and sites to help you investigate for yourself and begin to base your faith on the evidence that God has provided for His existence.
I encourage you to study the Bible as well .......read this historical book which is inspired by God to discover real faith in Christ, the prophecies He fulfilled, the miracles of His life and resurrection. Holy Bible : The NIV Study Bible Read the gospel of John in the New Testament and make the decision to ask Christ to be your Lord and Savior.

Won't you consider asking Christ into your life today. Once you have received Jesus Christ personally, you will be saved. When you meet God at the pearly gates and He asks "Why should I let you in?"..... you can say, "because I have trusted in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and it is His death on the cross that has paid for my sins."
Prayer this prayer if you want to be certain you are going to heaven: Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner in need of forgiveness. I turn my life over to you because I believe that You died for my sins and You are the only way to heaven and to have peace with God. You are the only One who can save and forgive me. Please cleanse me of my sins, come into my life and change me today. In Jesus' Name I ask this. Amen
In Matt 28:20 Jesus says this: "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (NIV)
I Jn 5:20 says: "We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true-- even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."(NIV)
If you have just placed your trust in Jesus Christ, you are now a Christian on your way to heaven and nothing can separate you from the love of Christ. You are starting a brand new life. 2 Corinthians 5:17 says it this way, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he/she is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!". Your sins have been paid for. Your slate has been wiped clean. Jesus said in John 10:10, "I have come that they might have life and have it more abundantly." He was saying that you will discover that your present life is more meaningful and hopeful now that you have a relationship with the God of the universe.
To grow in your new relationship with Christ, attend a solid Bible teaching church to learn more and to fellowship with God's family. You can contact the WillowCreek Association for a recommendation to a churrch near you. Read your Bible and pray everyday. Start by reading the gospel of John in the New Testament.

If you have prayed this prayer please email Lynette Hoy and include your address. You will receive the free book: An Anchor for the Soul: Help for the Present, Hope for the Future by Pastor Ray Pritchard.

Jesus lived the greatest life anyone ever lived on earth and claimed to be God. His life backed up His claims!
He is God and He is coming back one day to judge the world. Will you put your faith in Him? God bless you in your journey.

Lynette Hoy, NCC, LCPC

Reference Books: Mere Christianity, The Case for Christianityt or The Problem of Pain or Josh's book Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Historical Evidences for the Christian Faith or Know Why You Believe by Paul Little or Letters from a Skeptic by Gregory & Edward Boyd"
*Read this Book Review of Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More on Living for Christ:
There is nothing like living fully for Christ. When you walk with Christ wholeheartedly you will experience: His love, presence, power, peace, purpose and victory over sin. There is nothing like living for Christ. He is the living water and will satisfy your needs. Your needs will never be satisfied by anything or anyone else the way that Jesus can satisfy them. These verses talk about the experience you will have as you grow in Christ.
John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that
does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful."
John 15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing."
John 16:24 "Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete."
John 16:33 "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."
John 16:27 "No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God." (NIV)
With Christ there is freedom & forgiveness from our sins and self-centered lives:
I Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
John 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
Rom 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Rom 6:22-23 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (NIV)
I encourage you to write to Pastor Ray Pritchard about any questions for a pastoral/ theological perspective.
Read the article on Faith in order to understand how to become a Christian.
Lynette Hoy, NCC, LCPC

God damn it, stop ripping absolutely fucking massive walls of text. Paraphrase, thanks.

I'm not going to prove that God exists... i'm going to disprove the religeon of Athiests, which means that God would have to exist.

Now that doesn't make too much sense does it?

Athiestism = Wrong

The opposite is that God exists.

Money plz.

Fail.

You mixed up the Big Bang theory with atheism, and then on the basis of it seeming odd to you, declared it incorrect.

Take a few courses in logic.

Yet I am still yet to see any proof of any other 'theories'. Believing in God strengthens your self-belief and also makes your life better in the long run. People see Christianity as a set of rules, yet being a living testimony means you will never mistreat people, people will look up to you, and you will feel better about yourself and others will think well of you.... so I would actually choose religion over atheism just for even those simple reasons.
And believing in God isn't s much as proving he's real, it's agreeing he is real... having the sense to know, no matter whether it can be proved or not, that he does exist.

You are not arguing that God exists, merely that it is preferable to believe in him.

What if I make my own religion and made myself as God,technically that prove's that there is a God.
So is it check or cash in hand?

No. God, for the purpose of this exercise, is defined as an "external deity with supernatural power"

You've got a point, but I think that generally all religion's Gods end up doing similar things and none are human. But I guess if you do create your own religion and get at least 2 people to recognise you are God, you should win the $5000.

No.

hmmm I think as a worshipper I should get 1/5th of the winnings

No.

 

[Merchant_in_the_dark]

If you prove that he doesn't exist, I'll pay you $10,000.

 

[Shredderbeam]

If you prove that he doesn't exist, I'll pay you $10,000.

Define the God you want me to disprove.

 

[Death Virus]

Merchant_in_the_dark just owned u^^^^^^^

 

[Death Virus]

What kind of a noob are you, not beleiving in god?
NOOB
You'll see the proof that there is God when you go to hell...

 

[Shredderbeam]

Merchant_in_the_dark just owned u^^^^^^^

No he didn't.

What kind of a noob are you, not beleiving in god?
NOOB
You'll see the proof that there is God when you go to hell...

Why would you believe without proof to begin with?

 

[tutoneppis]

beleiving in God is not about facts..and somewhat its all based around faith there are people who beleive in God but dont beleive in most of the stories in the bible. Clearly its dificult to prove the existence.

 

[Shredderbeam]

beleiving in God is not about facts..and somewhat its all based around faith there are people who beleive in God but dont beleive in most of the stories in the bible. Clearly its dificult to prove the existence.

Why is God exempt from facts, while every other belief is not?

 

[wtp]

Being invisible is surely a supernatural power and can be considered god like.
There is lots of evidence that ghosts or a "an external deity with supernatural powers" exists. One could argue that the video clips and photos are dubbed but it would be extremely unlikely that every ghost video is fake.

Here are simply some examples you can watch if you wish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deoJUBW9CI8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHh6pdeXQbY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyj45wasuJk

All of this is only evidence. But for proof make or buy an Ouija bored and go to a cemetery at night time with a trusted friend. If the glass or other object moves when neither you or your friend apply pressure that would prove there is "an external deity with supernatural powers".

 

[Shredderbeam]

Being invisible is surely a supernatural power and can be considered god like.
There is lots of evidence that ghosts or a "an external deity with supernatural powers" exists. One could argue that the video clips and photos are dubbed but it would be extremely unlikely that every ghost video is fake.

Here are simply some examples you can watch if you wish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deoJUBW9CI8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHh6pdeXQbY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyj45wasuJk

I said in the original post that you would NOT win the money by any sort of trickery or word-play. Prove that God exists, and win the money. Go away if you can't.

All of this is only evidence. But for proof make or buy an Ouija bored and go to a cemetery at night time with a trusted friend. If the glass or other object moves when neither you or your friend apply pressure that would prove there is "an external deity with supernatural powers".

Tried it. Nothing happened.

 

[v3n0m]

In God and Evolution: An Exchange between Howard Van Till and Phillip Johnson, Mr. Johnson argues:
"Perhaps the best way to start is by answering Howard Van Till's question: just what would biological history have been like if left to natural phenomena without God's participation? If God had created a lifeless world, even with oceans rich in amino acids and other organic molecules, and thereafter had left matters alone, life would not have come into existence.
If God had done nothing but create a world of bacteria and protozoa, it would still be a world of bacteria and protozoa. Whatever may have been the case in the remote past, the chemicals we see today have no observable tendency or ability to form living cells, and single-celled organisms have no observable tendency or ability to form complex plants and animals.
Persons who believe that chemicals unassisted by intelligence can combine to create life, or that bacteria can evolve by natural processes into complex animals, are making an a priori assumption that nature has the resources to do its own creating. I call such persons metaphysical naturalists. Throughout this reply, as in the original paper, I use the term "naturalism" in what Van Till would call the broad sense.
Of course, theists recognize that experience has shown that a great many phenomena have natural causes that are accessible to scientific investigation. To a theist there is nothing surprising about this, because the universe is a product of the mind of God and the inquiring mind of man was created in God's image..."

Haha. I am second year in an Evolutionary Biology degree and that is classic religious babble. Do they really expect a protozoan to evolve into some brand new animal in front of their eyes?

They are so ridiculous with their 'un'intelligent design. They can't handle the idea of small changes in allele frequency which makes an organism more adept at surviving being passed on to its offspring more frequently due to increased fitness i.e tiny changes happening over many many many years, but will swallow the utter tripe in the bible that the Universe and everything in it was created in six days.

This arguement can never be won as Christians have chosen a question that has no way of being answered and when people get close they move the goal posts, they used to make love to intelligent design and now they have been forced to drop it and now harp on about a weird mutation of evolutation to do with bearded man which I can't recall the name of.

 

[v3n0m]

Well here's my try at the $5000:

God is defined as "an external deity with supernatural powers"

By "external deity" I guess you mean none of the "God is the embodiment of human emotion and lives with us all" rubbish, so that's taken care of, no metaphysical symbolism check.

"an external deity" Tick

Now for the "with supernatural powers". Well this is from a human perspective surely as by being able to define every natural law so it works on every level without any anomolies that can't be explained is beyond the human race, we have Quantum Mechanics that work on the very small scale but does not apply to the rules we have for the larger scale, even time which is used as a constant in many equations such as E=MC2 is not actually constant as it has been proven there are discrepancies in the way time effects objects moving at different speeds for example. Therefore "supernatural" trends defined by going in contradiction to the laws of nature set down by us are common. I think the crux of the question is in the association between external deity and supernatural powers, i.e there is an intention behind the "supernatural powers".

Now for the hard bit, there are six variables that must be exact to an infinitley tiny degree to let life begin in the universe one of them being the ability of water to freeze top down (unlike all other solutions) and all of these forces - which cannot be defined by a set of single rules put down by humanity called the laws of nature and are therefore 'super'-natural - have to work in unison to allow life with even the slightest degree of change resulting in a lifeless universe thus showing intention as the probability of a universe without life far,far,far,far,far.....far outweighs the liklihood of it being created with life leaving the theory of an intention behind this miracle logically easier to swallow than the opposite.

Therefore an external deity with supernatural powers. TADAAA

The money should be paid into [email protected]

 

[Shredderbeam]

Well here's my try at the $5000:

God is defined as "an external deity with supernatural powers"

By "external deity" I guess you mean none of the "God is the embodiment of human emotion and lives with us all" rubbish, so that's taken care of, no metaphysical symbolism check.

"an external deity" Tick

Correct.

Now for the "with supernatural powers". Well this is from a human perspective surely as by being able to define every natural law so it works on every level without any anomolies that can't be explained is beyond the human race, we have Quantum Mechanics that work on the very small scale but does not apply to the rules we have for the larger scale, even time which is used as a constant in many equations such as E=MC2 is not actually constant as it has been proven there are discrepancies in the way time effects objects moving at different speeds for example. Therefore "supernatural" trends defined by going in contradiction to the laws of nature set down by us are common. I think the crux of the question is in the association between external deity and supernatural powers, i.e there is an intention behind the "supernatural powers".

Correct.

Now for the hard bit, there are six variables that must be exact to an infinitley tiny degree to let life begin in the universe one of them being the ability of water to freeze top down (unlike all other solutions) and all of these forces - which cannot be defined by a set of single rules put down by humanity called the laws of nature and are therefore 'super'-natural - have to work in unison to allow life with even the slightest degree of change resulting in a lifeless universe thus showing intention as the probability of a universe without life far,far,far,far,far.....far outweighs the liklihood of it being created with life leaving the theory of an intention behind this miracle logically easier to swallow than the opposite.

Therefore an external deity with supernatural powers. TADAAA

The money should be paid into [email protected]

The laws are fundamental physical constants of the universe. They do not "work together", they are simply at precise values that allow life to be possible. Why they are at these values is wildly speculated upon (God did it, "reproducing multiverse" theory, the constants could only be as they are now, etc.).

Also, you lack a justification for your argument that these laws cannot be defined by a set of single rules.

 

[m0er]

looks like v3nom came close. I've given up because I don't think God exists and I've already explained why; interesting to see what people say.

 

[v3n0m]

The laws are fundamental physical constants of the universe.

Yes but these natural laws we have set down don't work to correctly, the "fundamental physical constants" are almost as much of a postulate as the existence of God itself. I don't have a great knowledge of Physics but I know there are two very different sets of rules one for the large and one for the small things of the universe, there is no intermediate which brings us to the definition of "super"-natural, if it is anything that deviates from what the human race can come up with then there are lots of examples. But that is to take the definition of 'super-natural' in the context of the understanding of human race, in a thousand years time our understanding of the universe may have grown so much that my arguement is permissable.

Using the 'laws' as we know them now Einstein and another mathmatician (name evades me) created a model of the universe using various calculations following the laws of nature and...it collapsed. Our laws and constants are incorrect. Therefore there is a contribution of an unknown factor which must be, by definition, super-natural.

Also, you lack a justification for your argument that these laws cannot be defined by a set of single rules.

I think you will find the ball is in you court with that one It's the shortcomings of science which cannot define a single set of rules, as, temporarily, a member of the God squad, that which cannot be explained by science is therefore not natural or is in other words 'super'-natural and is thus a work of the almighty.

Edit: (off topic) Looking back on the other attempts, it annoys me that some people will happily Google something and paste it, thinking that they have solved any question with 'their' idea when it is only the plagiarized thoughts of someone else, if that proliferates across the web-going human race then soon all we'll be spouting are Wikipedia quotes to each other in answer to a question.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Yes but these natural laws we have set down don't work to correctly, the "fundamental physical constants" are almost as much of a postulate as the existence of God itself.

God is an hypothesis - the fundamental constants are not. How do we know this? We can directly observe them.

I don't have a great knowledge of Physics but I know there are two very different sets of rules one for the large and one for the small things of the universe, there is no intermediate which brings us to the definition of "super"-natural

There is no clear and obvious intermediate, it is simply that individual particles behave randomly. 10,000 particles will (on average) behave in a Newtonian manner. I assume that there is a smooth gradiant all the way from 10,000 to one, with masses generally acting more and more Newtonian with more particles added.

Using the 'laws' as we know them now Einstein and another mathmatician (name evades me) created a model of the universe using various calculations following the laws of nature and...it collapsed. Our laws and constants are incorrect. Therefore there is a contribution of an unknown factor which must be, by definition, super-natural.

An unknown factor is not automatically a supernatural factor. It could be, but it will be treated as unknown until more evidence is brought to light.

I think you will find the ball is in you court with that one It's the shortcomings of science which cannot define a single set of rules, as, temporarily, a member of the God squad, that which cannot be explained by science is therefore not natural or is in other words 'super'-natural and is thus a work of the almighty.

A supernatural force is not necessarily God.

Edit: (off topic) Looking back on the other attempts, it annoys me that some people will happily Google something and paste it, thinking that they have solved any question with 'their' idea when it is only the plagiarized thoughts of someone else, if that proliferates across the web-going human race then soon all we'll be spouting are Wikipedia quotes to each other in answer to a question.

You're annoyed by that? Welcome to the club.

I am redefining God (again) as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

Go.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Bump.