Virtual Sythe Wallet

[Raptor lx]

Lol on the essay comment, I see what you are saying, so any easier way to fix it would be longer than hour holds, something that would give enough room for possible problems that may occur.

I still maintain that the best case scenario, if this is implemented, would be for instant transactions similar to Liberty Reserve, where there is no way to refund anything that has been transferred. I believe however it is a moot point, because I'd say that an admin/sythe is going to come along and say that this is too hard to code/would make trading more difficult due to the need to transfer between current currencies and the Sythe Wallet prior to doing a trade. The other thing that has been pointed out that could be a reason that this suggestion will be shot down is due to possible security problems that, if the site was compromised, could lead to a massive crash of the buying value of the Sythe currency, as well as many scams, and possibly leaving Sythe open to lawsuits.

Edit:Just read your last edit where you mentioned the possibility of there being a delay on cashing out. This would not have the result you intended, because if a scam/issue did take place for example, and the person then spent the money on something else the second the scam report went up (as they are likely to do), then the refund of the original person's funds would result in a negative transactional balance for the scammer, leading to them owing Sythe.org money that it will likely never see. In this way, it would be almost identical to a paypal dispute, which we all know is a very unsecure manner of currency. There is a reason that most forums prefer to only deal in WU/MP/LR - they are hard currencies which cannot be reversed, and if you wish to ensure that a secure deal takes place, then you should use an MM. I think an alternative use to your Sythe Wallet could be to use it as a sort of middle currency. This is basically just building on the idea that you could pay via WU/MP/LR into your Wallet, and then make transactions, but you could then withdraw the balance of your Wallet back into whichever offered currency you like. For example, Person A could put $50 LR into their wallet, buy something for $24 LR worth, then cash out their remaining $26 through Moneybookers or another currency, minus whatever fees would be necessary.

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[tgnDean]

I still maintain that the best case scenario, if this is implemented, would be for instant transactions similar to Liberty Reserve, where there is no way to refund anything that has been transferred. I believe however it is a moot point, because I'd say that an admin/sythe is going to come along and say that this is too hard to code/would make trading more difficult due to the need to transfer between current currencies and the Sythe Wallet prior to doing a trade. The other thing that has been pointed out that could be a reason that this suggestion will be shot down is due to possible security problems that, if the site was compromised, could lead to a massive crash of the buying value of the Sythe currency, as well as many scams, and possibly leaving Sythe open to lawsuits.

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Ok, so instant transaction that are ALMOST irreversible, only mods/admins can reverse them. Then we go back to what I just said about putting cashout holds on your wallet, like 72 hours before you can transfer funds from your wallet to say your paypal account, this gets rid of any chances of you running away with the cash if you did scam. Your point on what the final verdict will be is most likely true, although we have had a lot of support from coders agreeing to implement the system, it will be a hard one to pass

E: then we go back to my original idea of a 24 hour hold, or we add an extra feature to the report transaction button that says 1. report for scamming, 2. the order is being delayed and needs more time to reset the 24 hour timer.

 

[tgnDean]

Edit:Just read your last edit where you mentioned the possibility of there being a delay on cashing out. This would not have the result you intended, because if a scam/issue did take place for example, and the person then spent the money on something else the second the scam report went up (as they are likely to do), then the refund of the original person's funds would result in a negative transactional balance for the scammer, leading to them owing Sythe.org money that it will likely never see.

You sir, are hard to bargain with lol, there are so many sites out there that use this type of system, there MUST be a way we can make it work if they did!!

Last thing I want to mention right now. If a scammer did take the money, and spend it before he was caught by buying gold or something instead of cashing out, Sythe could simply just hit a few keys on their keyboard and put the money back in your account. Its not costing them money to make some rightful changes to your account with their fingertips if you proved you were scammed.

Think about it, we keep the old system, scammer gets away and you are out money, we use this system, scammer MIGHT still get away, but you can have your money replaced.

 

[Raptor lx]

You sir, are hard to bargain with lol, there are so many sites out there that use this type of system, there MUST be a way we can make it work if they did!!

Just being realistic, if such an update as this were to actually be implemented, every line of thought both your or I have followed will be considered in depth by both the Admins, mods, coders and Richard himself. There is no point leaving a suggestion that could have profound effects on how Sythe would operate in broad terms - it has to be tested and tweaked to ensure compatibility with the market, the site, and the users. As we both have acknowledged, it is a long shot that Sythe would even consider the implementation of such a radical change to the site, regardless of whether or not there is a way to ensure the safety of both the buyer and seller in transactions when using a feature such as your suggested Sythe Wallet.

EDIT: I just saw your last edit, and that is quite possibly the worst thing that Richard could do in that situation. As bad as it sounds, it is far better to leave the scammed user without his money than to simply generate more from thin air, as this would eventually cost Sythe down the track (Sythe would eventually have to pay back out this money, whilst no money would be entering the economy via the donations from other currencies, and as such Sythe would be picking up the cost of the scam). This would lead to possible abuse as people could allow their friends to scam them for obscene amounts, pass this cash onto another friend, and have the original person be refunded, whilst the friend holds an identical amount, and both of these two users could cash out and leave the site with more money than what they came in with.

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[tgnDean]

EDIT: I just saw your last edit, and that is quite possibly the worst thing that Richard could do in that situation. As bad as it sounds, it is far better to leave the scammed user without his money than to simply generate more from thin air, as this would eventually cost Sythe down the track (Sythe would eventually have to pay back out this money, whilst no money would be entering the economy via the donations from other currencies, and as such Sythe would be picking up the cost of the scam). This would lead to possible abuse as people could allow their friends to scam them for obscene amounts, pass this cash onto another friend, and have the original person be refunded, whilst the friend holds an identical amount, and both of these two users could cash out and leave the site with more money than what they came in with.

Agreed, that's all I have to say on my last suggestion. Just like you said, we both know its a long shot, and IF they do decide to make this happen, hopefully they will know the proper way to do it so both of our worries are addressed. But, every system has its flaws, kind of how I said in a previous post that any website is hackable. But, if we can make a system that works for all users, that can bring a little more safety to our trades, that doesn't cause users to get upset over possible holds, this could be an extremely huge change for Sythe. Sure, false chargebacks are probably going to happen, we all know this already. But, would you rather wait a week to stop a scammer, or wait a month for Paypal support to make the decision in favor of the scammer seeing how it was a virtual trade which by the way isn't covered in the buyer protection agreement.

 

[Lazy23]

So let me get this straight, one would pay money to Sythe through any of the given methods (WU,PP,LR etc) and the same value of what they pay (minus fees) would be put into their wallet?

Assuming the above is correct and they make it risk free (e.g., the user can't chargeback the funds they put into their wallet, accounts which are hacked have a safeguard to protect their funds & there is some sort of check by mods to prevent scammers), how are you suggesting someone would check out their money? Plus, who do you suggest would be working full time handling all this money? As Sythe would need someone who will handle the money in terms of getting/storing/authorising payments and so on.

Also, just for the record this is never going to happen and no support from me.

 

[KnowP]

If you had a 24 hour delay between the payout of the Sythe Cash/from the wallet, then the currency is a soft one, and in that 24 hours a scam report or whatnot could be filed, rendering the payment invalid and thus the equivalent of a chargeback. If such a system were to be implemented, the payments made from a Sythe wallet would need to be instant and irreversible.

It wouldn't keep the un-used accounts from being accessed and funds transferred off of them. No matter what, you'd have people buying/selling/exchanging this currency, and it'd be easy to dump large amounts off relatively quick. So if a hacker were to get in (like many sites with this system have problems have had happen) Sythe would be responsible for paying them back. Sythe doesn't want to deal with that shit and risk it, that's pretty much the bottom line.

 

[Raptor lx]

It wouldn't keep the un-used accounts from being accessed and funds transferred off of them. No matter what, you'd have people buying/selling/exchanging this currency, and it'd be easy to dump large amounts off relatively quick. So if a hacker were to get in (like many sites with this system have problems have had happen) Sythe would be responsible for paying them back. Sythe doesn't want to deal with that shit and risk it, that's pretty much the bottom line.

If you read my posts, I was supporting the ability of people being able to sell off their Wallet currency in large amounts really quick. I also mentioned that this would ONLY work if it was possible to secure it from hack attempts, which TBT said should, for the most part, be possible. I also was conscious of the fact that should this be implemented, which I 100% believe it will not be, Sythe should not be put in a position where he may be held liable for damages, and my solutions to any of the issues raised reflect this.

 

[noty]

A very popular idea and that can come to help the majority of the Sythe users, but ain't gonna happen. In this world it's all about the cash, and this would get sythe lose a lot of cash.

 

[KnowP]

If you read my posts, I was supporting the ability of people being able to sell off their Wallet currency in large amounts really quick. I also mentioned that this would ONLY work if it was possible to secure it from hack attempts, which TBT said should, for the most part, be possible. I also was conscious of the fact that should this be implemented, which I 100% believe it will not be, Sythe should not be put in a position where he may be held liable for damages, and my solutions to any of the issues raised reflect this.

I know, I was just addressing your first post. Not anything after that, because I didn't read* past that.

 

I like the idea. However if we be realistic we won't get it completely safe. Take for example Bitcoins, there were several hacks. I'm sure Bitcoin banks are far more protected because they've much more value to protect. if there will be a Sythe currency there's much less value to protect but also less money te spend on security. Therefore we surely can tell there's no way to get it 100% safe, who will take the risk of keeping 100K's?

An counterargument would be that there are less professional hackers looking into the Sythe wallet compared to the Bitcoin currency. However, where people can make cash the most simple, there will they be.

What do you guys think?

 

[KnowP]

I like the idea. However if we be realistic we won't get it completely safe. Take for example Bitcoins, there were several hacks. I'm sure Bitcoin banks are far more protected because they've much more value to protect. if there will be a Sythe currency there's much less value to protect but also less money te spend on security. Therefore we surely can tell there's no way to get it 100% safe, who will take the risk of keeping 100K's?

An counterargument would be that there are less professional hackers looking into the Sythe wallet compared to the Bitcoin currency. However, where people can make cash the most simple, there will they be.

What do you guys think?

Finally. This man knows what he's talking about.

 

[tgnDean]

Topic still open so bump.

 

[Heeatz]

I think its a great idea. No other black market trader has done this, so i think it will be a great addition to sythe, and will bring in alot more traders/active users.

Great idea.

Butdean, simmer down with the suggestions yeh?

 

[iExamine_RS]

Just like a lower scale of paypal...support!

 

[tomato721]

FULL Support, ownedcore has it and handles it pretty well

 

[GodGenesis]

I can only imagine the huge load added to the current moderators and possibly an added team of people to handle this Virtual Wallet. But with cash going in and out, I am sure the government will want some tax out of it and Sythe tends to stay away from any involvement with the government.

Its a good aim for sythe to work towards but at the moment, there's just far too many barriers from having this idea put into effect.

 

[exapto]

FULL SUPPORT.


That is, provided the government doesn't over-involve itself (taxes, audits, etc..). But I totally back this idea....the concept of being able to securely trade via Sythe.

There will be ways around this, though (VPN, fake information, etc...). And we could even have a minirank system that updates based upon either the number or the value of the trades one does. Love it.

 

[I_DONT_BOT]

http://www.sythe.org/suggestions/1521950-sythe-deposits.html <-- Same thing.

Reasoning why I don't support

Sythe bonds have been mentioned before
(http://www.sythe.org/approved-suggestions/1371009-unofficial-sythe-bonds.html)

The only downside I can see personally is that if someone has the intentions to scam, they aren't going to invest the cash anyways, and for others it just ties up cash. It would leave a lot of responsibility on sythe, and a wipe would affect him hugely, as it would lose a load of cash. If it was done with real USD, he would get charged taxes and he's not a bank. For these reasons, NO SUPPORT.

http://www.sythe.org/digital-curren...or-black-tux-user-bonds-protection-trust.html
TBT run's the service privately himself. You could do that.




An Admin has said it can't be done, he told TBT if he wants to do it do it himself, so he has. Grave only wants to manage it himself because he wants to have the whole e-penis advantage, and he thinks it'll get him staff, hence why he does the RSU donations.

 

[PrayerKid]

I think this would be a great idea. Would save people from chargebacks and problems with pay-pal. We could just use our "Sythe Bank" in a way to hold our money and would be way better than having to use other methods of payment. It would make buying/selling stuff and services a lot easier.

Full support