Sythe Deposits

Grave · Jan 25, 2013

First I'd like to state that I'm willing to fully manage the deposits if administrators will only deny this suggestion because it's a hassle.

What would Sythe Deposits be?

In addition to donating, let people 'deposit' money as a pool of money in case they scam
Helps build a layer of trust and security, since people know they can possibly get a full/partial refund if the person with the rank scams
Can be a minirank if it's easier to implement
Can come with a free securities verifications of some sort such as address/phone confirmation
To also help the site, there could be a one-time deposit fee, a monthly fee, or withdrawal fee, etc
Obviously any of the above details can be changed to improve on the idea

If this has already been suggested, fuck you, don't lock it yet.

Laptop65 · Jan 25, 2013

Interesting idea. Although what happens if someone deposits with PayPal? They could chargeback just as easy and mess up the Sythe PayPal Deposit account.

Grave · Jan 25, 2013

Laptop65 said:
Interesting idea. Although what happens if someone deposits with PayPal? They could chargeback just as easy and mess up the Sythe PayPal Deposit account.

Deposits would be handled in the same way donations are, which is mostly through RSGP and other secure methods.

Delta Squad · Jan 25, 2013

yea.. no..

i wouldn't want to have my money tied up online, espec if YOU wasto be incharge of it, seems fishy to me.

Grave · Jan 25, 2013

Delta Squad said:
yea.. no..

i wouldn't want to have my money tied up online, espec if YOU wasto be incharge of it, seems fishy to me.

Damn, you got me. Alright guys, sorry. Needed a new car =\

Obviously I would keep a bond if I handled it, and you're not required to use it. I'm sure many large traders would be interested to give customers peace of mind.

Delta Squad · Jan 25, 2013

Grave said:
Damn, you got me. Alright guys, sorry. Needed a new car =\

Obviously I would keep a bond if I handled it, and you're not required to use it. I'm sure many large traders would be interested to give customers peace of mind.

yea no... wouldn't fly with me. heres why

one person would have access to tons of wealth, and tbh no one on this site, not even sythe himself is trusted enough to handle that kind of money.

we don't need another plznate etc etc..

i'm assuming you arn't going to be manging a few hundred bucks but a few thousand.

Grave · Jan 25, 2013

Delta Squad said:
one person would have access to tons of wealth, and tbh no one on this site, not even sythe himself is trusted enough to handle that kind of money.

I don't think this will be as huge as you think. Once again, it's optional. If you don't trust Sythe with a few thousand dollars, then stop using it, because what if Sythe decides to frame you one day? It'd be pretty easy. What if Sythe decided he's going to send you a private message through another person's account and scam you? Or what if Sythe decides to put a drive-by on his website?

Some key points you're missing:

You can withdraw the funds, it's not permanently there like a donation
Sythe will be making money from deposit/withdrawals, it's not a ponzi scheme

Your logic can be applied to anything. It's similar to saying "I don't trust people, so I don't trade them, and no one else should be able to trade because they can get scammed."

Delta Squad · Jan 25, 2013

Grave said:
I don't think this will be as huge as you think. Once again, it's optional. If you don't trust Sythe with a few thousand dollars, then stop using it, because what if Sythe decides to frame you one day? It'd be pretty easy. What if Sythe decided he's going to send you a private message through another person's account and scam you? Or what if Sythe decides to put a drive-by on his website?

Some key points you're missing:

You can withdraw the funds, it's not permanently there like a donation

Sythe will be making money from deposit/withdrawals, it's not a ponzi scheme

Your logic can be applied to anything. It's similar to saying "I don't trust people, so I don't trade them, and no one else should be able to trade because they can get scammed."

few things invalid on your comments.

he couldn't frame me for anything irl. this ip i have isn't even my real one, second you can't truely trust anyone on here, staff members have scammed in the past, third, what happens when the account gets wiped for all the rsgp? fourth, if there is multiple staff access you wouldn't be able to determine who stole the funds.

last but not least there is to many variables to make this a success.

Punjabi3 · Jan 25, 2013

Helps build a layer of trust and security, since people know they can possibly get a full/partial refund if the person with the rank scams

This increases credibility but lets face it most people who deposit will scam, most will see this the same way they see donating as a method to earn trust.

A person can deposit 100mil for 100mil verification, or whatever its being called. The person can then do multiple trades up to 100mil with ease because most will know they are secure with up to 100mil trades. Now that person can easily charge back their paypal money (assume 1bil was bought in the time frame) 1 bil- 100mil = 900mil profit and then they can just do it again.

Another complication is payout timing. Assume someone gave you 1bil and scammed 5 people out of 5bil. You would split it 5 ways meaning 250mil each, now if a 6th person pops up right after you reimburse the scammed members or even another 2 or 3 would they be insured as well?

Also TBT has set something like this up, not really sure how well it is working.

If somebody is going to be legit on sythe, they have no reason to insure themselves in case they scam.

tgnDean · Jan 25, 2013

Support this because I already suggested it before, well something similar and it never got approved nor denied, mods just let it rot
http://www.sythe.org/suggestions/1513152-virtual-sythe-wallet.html

Delta Squad · Jan 25, 2013

Punjabi3 said:
This increases credibility but lets face it most people who deposit will scam, most will see this the same way they see donating as a method to earn trust.

A person can deposit 100mil for 100mil verification, or whatever its being called. The person can then do multiple trades up to 100mil with ease because most will know they are secure with up to 100mil trades. Now that person can easily charge back their paypal money (assume 1bil was bought in the time frame) 1 bil- 100mil = 900mil profit and then they can just do it again.

Another complication is payout timing. Assume someone gave you 1bil and scammed 5 people out of 5bil. You would split it 5 ways meaning 250mil each, now if a 6th person pops up right after you reimburse the scammed members or even another 2 or 3 would they be insured as well?

Also TBT has set something like this up, not really sure how well it is working.

that has alot of valid points, yea it's a great thought, but there is to many factors.

Punjabi3 · Jan 25, 2013

Can come with a free securities verifications of some sort such as address/phone confirmation

Also considering ips aren't even give out of scammers, I highly doubt these would be given out to the scammed members.

Phones- disposable
Address- useless unless you can prove the person actually lives there (knock on door)

Grave · Jan 25, 2013

Well, this is only the beginning idea. Matthew could possibly set up a system where a person can put in a claim or make a RaS thread which triggers the rank temporarily disappearing so more people do not assume they will be covered.

Also, I know in some instances a person won't be "fully guaranteed" but it will be better than nothing. And to your claim that no legit members will use it: that's incorrect. Just as some people donate a lot to spam, more people donate and stay legit.

In regards to the verifications being useless, you're wrong. Disposable phones can be identified and the system we use on RSUltimate does this. As for the address verification, we can mail them a code, so we won't have to knock on their door.

Delta Squad · Jan 25, 2013

all this really looks like to me is Buying trust, i think we already have enough of that going on, on this site.

Grave · Jan 25, 2013

Delta Squad said:
all this really looks like to me is Buying trust, i think we already have enough of that going on, on this site.

What's wrong with "buying trust" when it can help people recover their loss? It's better than guessing trust, which is what goes on most the time.

Zuzel111 · Jan 25, 2013

It's already here Mr Soheil
http://www.sythe.org/digital-curren...or-black-tux-user-bonds-protection-trust.html

Delta Squad · Jan 25, 2013

Grave said:
What's wrong with "buying trust" when it can help people recover their loss? It's better than guessing trust, which is what goes on most the time.

well i mean we already got users coming to this site and doing fake trade to build false trust, last thing we need is another way for someone to get trust under falsepretences and then giving staff the headache of a scam+ chargeback.

Punjabi3 · Jan 25, 2013

Grave said:
Well, this is only the beginning idea. Matthew could possibly set up a system where a person can put in a claim or make a RaS thread which triggers the rank temporarily disappearing so more people do not assume they will be covered.

Also, I know in some instances a person won't be "fully guaranteed" but it will be better than nothing. And to your claim that no legit members will use it: that's incorrect. Just as some people donate a lot to spam, more people donate and stay legit.

Paypal gives you 45 days to chargeback and apparently for hacked accounts its even longer. The people you would be insuring in most cases would use paypal for trades. Also I wasn't referring to scam reports being made and then the user continuing trading. I was stating they charge back all their trades at once.

Also I won't refer to people donating to your pool to scam because everyone who needs to add to the pool would be legit members who without control will scam somebody else. Such as somebody using voodoo dolls.

Scams will happen no matter what, why make it easier for scammers to reach a minimal amount they can scam with ease.

Delta Squad · Jan 25, 2013

also like to add if TBT id already doing this why suggest this? unless you just want to be in charge of it to get you more cred or w/e your alt-motive is here, which with you there normally is...

First I'd like to state that I'm willing to fully manage the deposits

Punjabi3 · Jan 25, 2013

Delta Squad said:
also like to add if TBT id already doing this why suggest this? unless you just want to be in charge of it to get you more cred or w/e your alt-motive is here, which with you there normally is...

Its to make it official similar to how the donations bond holders work.

ranks, stickies, tags, etc.

Sythe Deposits

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