Unsatisfied with growth

There are a tonne of talented people on this site

I appreciate those kind words.

Brb 2b stake

 

[Buyacc]

I know the people in PR are nice guys but they don't know how to promote a website lol they're just trying to get moderator status.

It is also because of the lack of backing like Roary described. When I was PR leader I contacted every major blackmarket forum in an attempt to work together, like make an event together. But when they asked what we had to offer I had to tell them that we had to hope for a gold site to be generous enough to sponsor any endeavors.

I personally asked Richard multiple times about funding but he never took the time to respond. We even went so far as to put out a fundraiser because of lack of response.

 

We have numerous community engagement projects across three community teams.

I'm aware of all these teams and I know the ins and outs of them because I was personally involved in a lot of them for years. They do well at keeping the current user base engaged. Not much else.

They have to source their own incentives - give them some cool shit to give away?
There's no large presence off-site to promote on. You need to invest in someone who is good at building online presence on social media.

Personally I invested 6 months into building a macro library which I give away for free and no one is interested in even testing it.

So it didn't work. Try something else.

Really this comes down to some people expect to be paid to use this site and that's not how forums work.

Really this comes down to some people expect other people to give them all the answers without giving them something in return for it

Honestly if I invest a 6 month block of my time into doing something that you all will agree will improve the community on this site I guarantee it will have no impact whatsoever. The user base are who they are, the market is what it is, people are already engaged to saturation.

I mean it's not like you're literally getting paid to do such things..

How do these "lack the backing". They get funding, attention, time, people, effort. End users aren't interested, you can't force them to be interested.

I have never once seen you interact with a CDT event thread
I have never once seen you invest in someone with expertise
I have never once even seen you be genuinely thankful towards anyone but yourself
I have never once seen you see any of your staff as anything but replaceable
I have never once seen you take any criticism on the chin and engage with it, you just excuse yourself out of it every single time

It's ridiculous to me you have only general criticism with no specific issues to point out. It's like you want to blame me for the behaviour of the userbase as a whole.

Because why should people research this shit and give you viable solutions for no reason when they could go elsewhere and get paid to do it instead? Like, fucking duh.

You need an admin team with actual real-life skill sets. They need to be treated like yourself and Matthew. Someone who grows social media platforms for a living. Someone who runs community engagement projects for a living, etc.

Then you can have a couple of fake admins, like what I was and like what you mostly have now who oversee the staff team, make small changes in forum structure, user accounts and what-not. That stuff is replaceable, real valuable skills are not.

This site is objectively more engaging than its ever been. It has more community projects, teams, competitions, events, features than its ever had. And still it's not enough. I put in more time than I ever have and still it's not enough.

True and true

The same crappy suggestions are always put forward by the same group of users. "Pay for gaming servers" did that, didn't work. "Pay for advertising" did that, didn't work. It's basically just "pay users to use the site" at this point.

Some transparency on 'did that' would be helpful

Then think about how little intellectual effort you are actually putting into this problem and come back with an honest response.

They're not crappy, they're just vague. Because nobody is going to put time and effort in to giving you solutions on a plate when you're just an arrogant asshole that expects these ideas for free. You don't take honesty well, that's why nobody is ever actually honest about anything to your face.

 

It is also because of the lack of backing like Roary described. When I was PR leader I contacted every major blackmarket forum in an attempt to work together, like make an event together. But when they asked what we had to offer I had to tell them that we had to hope for a gold site to be generous enough to sponsor any endeavors.

I personally asked Richard multiple times about funding but he never took the time to respond. We even went so far as to put out a fundraiser because of lack of response.

Teams generally raise their own funds and generally do it successfully. When they come to me and say "we need a server" or similar then I'll buy it for them if I think it might help.

What's the point of the community PR team if I'm going to pay you? I might as well ditch the team and pay a marketing firm. And as I already said that wouldn't even help due to brand saturation.

 

And as I already said that wouldn't even help due to brand saturation.

Answer me honestly here:

Do you want Sythe to evolve and get relevant or are you quite happy just letting advert money trickle in and letting the brand saturate as long as it still provides a good profit, like genuinely?

If you're interested in making change to revamp the brand and get relevant again then change your attitude. If you're not interested in changing things and are quite happy with your current level of effort and it's financial return then we can all stop wasting our time discussing these things because there's no point.

 

[Buyacc]

Teams generally raise their own funds and generally do it successfully. When they come to me and say "we need a server" or similar then I'll buy it for them if I think it might help.

What's the point of the community PR team if I'm going to pay you? I might as well ditch the team and pay a marketing firm. And as I already said that wouldn't even help due to brand saturation.

How succesful will any team be with a lack of funding. It's fun and all that you make your little PR team but they cant do anything else than post stuff on Twitter or Facebook unless they get funding. I even find it disturbing that you rely on outsiders to keep your forum active; you relying on people to help your site stay active with their own funds.

Also with "teams generally raise their own funds" you mean the CDT surely? You must understand that trying to get something on-site, like an event, promoted by a gold site is much easier than to get a gold site to sponsor something off-site which they dont know what the return on their investment will be.

 

I'm aware of all these teams and I know the ins and outs of them because I was personally involved in a lot of them for years. They do well at keeping the current user base engaged. Not much else.

They have to source their own incentives - give them some cool shit to give away?
There's no large presence off-site to promote on. You need to invest in someone who is good at building online presence on social media.

If I pay someone from outside the site to come in and spam social media why do you think that will be more effective than having community members spam social media? I'm genuinely curious.

So it didn't work. Try something else.

Literally what I'm doing, thanks.

Really this comes down to some people expect other people to give them all the answers without giving them something in return for it



I mean it's not like you're literally getting paid to do such things..



I have never once seen you interact with a CDT event thread
I have never once seen you invest in someone with expertise
I have never once even seen you be genuinely thankful towards anyone but yourself
I have never once seen you see any of your staff as anything but replaceable

So really this is just about you hate me?

All of the staff are volunteers except Matthew, who is the only paid staff member. And yes he has a CS degree and yes I pay him for his expertise and have done so for many years. Volunteers come and go all the time. Our staff turn over rate is high and has always been. I don't see that as an issue because our user turnover rate is also high.

I don't participate in CDT events because they are autonomous and I should not be interfering, I do not want to deprive users of the prizes from those events if I were to win, and if there is a dispute I have to be able to impartially adjudicate it when I cannot do if I am participating in the event.

I have never once seen you take any criticism on the chin and engage with it, you just excuse yourself out of it every single time

What is this even? Do you want me to just say "yeah my bad" to everything including the things I have no power over or do you want me to engage with the criticism. You can't have it both ways.

Because why should people research this shit and give you viable solutions for no reason when they could go elsewhere and get paid to do it instead? Like, fucking duh.

You need an admin team with actual real-life skill sets. They need to be treated like yourself and Matthew. Someone who grows social media platforms for a living. Someone who runs community engagement projects for a living, etc.

Then you can have a couple of fake admins, like what I was and like what you mostly have now who oversee the staff team, make small changes in forum structure, user accounts and what-not. That stuff is replaceable, real valuable skills are not.

I don't think you have any respect whatsoever for our admins.

Your entire criticism is that we don't spend more money on paid staff. Let me make this amazingly crystal clear: this site is only economically viable with volunteer staff. The day we have to pay non-technical staff is the day we close our doors.

True and true


Some transparency on 'did that' would be helpful



They're not crappy, they're just vague. Because nobody is going to put time and effort in to giving you solutions on a plate when you're just an arrogant asshole that expects these ideas for free. You don't take honesty well, that's why nobody is ever actually honest about anything to your face.

Honestly the saltiness of ex-mods and some ex-admins is amazing to me. It's similar to women who sleep around then regret it later and try to file false rape accusations. You wanted admin, you put a lot of work into getting it, you were an admin for a long time. Just be happy. Don't come on here and complain you weren't paid. Don't come on here and complain that other volunteers aren't paid. That's not how online communities work.

 

[Buyacc]

If I pay someone from outside the site to come in and spam social media why do you think that will be more effective than having community members spam social media? I'm genuinely curious.

This mindset explains it all really. A PR team shouldnt be "spamming social media", but because they cant do anything else right now thats the only thing they do. The results from the spamming social media are clearly visible, hardly anyone follows it and no post ever gets liked or anything.

 

How succesful will any team be with a lack of funding. It's fun and all that you make your little PR team but they cant do anything else than post stuff on Twitter or Facebook unless they get funding. I even find it disturbing that you rely on outsiders to keep your forum active; you relying on people to help your site stay active with their own funds.

Also with "teams generally raise their own funds" you mean the CDT surely? You must understand that trying to get something on-site, like an event, promoted by a gold site is much easier than to get a gold site to sponsor something off-site which they dont know what the return on their investment will be.

You couldn't do the job asked of you. That's fine. Now someone else is doing the job.

This site operates on donations including the donation of people's time and effort into the volunteer positions that they apply for.

 

Yeah I have work to do. If anyone has real suggestions (not "you should throw money at X") for improving user engagement feel free to send me a PM.

 

[Buyacc]

You couldn't do the job asked of you. That's fine. Now someone else is doing the job.

This site operates on donations including the donation of people's time and effort into the volunteer positions that they apply for.

This response combined with the "spam social media" says enough lol. You're totally out of touch and cant bring up good arguments, other then some passive aggressive nonsense. Instead of you asking me and me giving proof and examples, how would you promote the site as a PR leader with no funds? The "spam social media" has turned out to be a complete failure so that isnt going to cut it.

 

If I pay someone from outside the site to come in and spam social media why do you think that will be more effective than having community members spam social media? I'm genuinely curious.

Do you think Matthew would do what he does voluntarily? He does what he does because he gets paid. The same thing applies to someone who knows how to make a successful social media platform, which on their own can make 6 figure incomes for folks.

Literally what I'm doing, thanks.

Glad to hear it

So really this is just about you hate me?

I don't hate you, I don't know you
I hate how you do things sometimes, yes, nothing personal

All of the staff are volunteers except Matthew, who is the only paid staff member. And yes he has a CS degree and yes I pay him for his expertise and have done so for many years. Volunteers come and go all the time. Our staff turn over rate is high and has always been. I don't see that as an issue because our user turnover rate is also high.

I know..

I don't participate in CDT events because they are autonomous and I should not be interfering, I do not want to deprive users of the prizes from those events if I were to win, and if there is a dispute I have to be able to impartially adjudicate it when I cannot do if I am participating in the event.

I don't mean like.. play online pool and shit. I mean post in the CDT forum and just even seem interested or appreciative for one tiny second.

What is this even? Do you want me to just say "yeah my bad" to everything including the things I have no power over or do you want me to engage with the criticism. You can't have it both ways.

Your attitude in general just sucks. I've never seen you be anything but patronisingly defensive towards any kind of negativity.

I don't think you have any respect whatsoever for our admins.

I have every respect for them because I could not suffer it any more than what I did.

Your entire criticism is that we don't spend more money on paid staff. Let me make this amazingly crystal clear: this site is only economically viable with volunteer staff. The day we have to pay non-technical staff is the day we close our doors.

I didn't say pay ALL your staff. My post literally says pay the people with real life skill sets who add value.

You need a couple more Matthew's, everyone else ('fake' admins, globals, sectionals, is volunteer).

Honestly the saltiness of ex-mods and some ex-admins is amazing to me. It's similar to women who sleep around then regret it later and try to file false rape accusations. You wanted admin, you put a lot of work into getting it, you were an admin for a long time. Just be happy. Don't come on here and complain you weren't paid. Don't come on here and complain that other volunteers aren't paid. That's not how online communities work.

Let me be clear: I never expected to be paid for it. I don't want to be paid for it.

You don't have to pay everyone to provide incentive. You just have to thank them and show them you appreciate them. But you do need to invest in a couple of more Matthew's with different specialities.

 

This response combined with the "spam social media" says enough lol. You're totally out of touch and cant bring up good arguments, other then some passive aggressive nonsense. Instead of you asking me and me giving proof and examples, how would you promote the site as a PR leader with no funds? The "spam social media" has turned out to be a complete failure so that isnt going to cut it.

What'd you spend the money on? How many users did we gain from this 2000 EUR? Because I have stats from social media and they're not good.

 

[Buyacc]

What'd you spend the money on? How many users did we gain from this 2000 EUR? Because I have stats from social media and they're not good.

Nice of you to not go into my actual post, but go into the part I edited out. Expected though.

With the €2000,- I was going to talk how I as a PR leader, pretty much single-handedly, got the Rocket League forum active by investing in the rarest in-game items and then solely promoting it here on Sythe. Ok now is your turn to actually make suggestions. As you can see I had to spend my own money to benefit your site. How would you do it as a PR leader without funds?

 

Do you think Matthew would do what he does voluntarily? He does what he does because he gets paid. The same thing applies to someone who knows how to make a successful social media platform, which on their own can make 6 figure incomes for folks.

Ok so you would be happy if I dissolved the PR team and paid someone full time to do social media? What thing would they do that the PR team isn't doing?

Glad to hear it


I don't hate you, I don't know you
I hate how you do things sometimes, yes, nothing personal

Sound's incredibly personal.

You don't have to pay everyone to provide incentive. You just have to thank them and show them you appreciate them. But you do need to invest in a couple of more Matthew's with different specialities.

When staff are doing a good job I do thank them and let them know. If you were never thanked it's because you didn't do a good job.

 

What thing would they do that the PR team isn't doing?

it properly

Sound's incredibly personal.

How can it be when I've never had so much as a conversation with you

When staff are doing a good job I do thank them and let them know. If you were never thanked it's because you didn't do a good job.

This is the level you sink to every single time when people don't agree with you, it's childish

 

[Tyler]

Our staff turn over rate is high and has always been. I don't see that as an issue because our user turnover rate is also high.

I briefly talked about this and started working on it when I was PR leader, but maybe we should look into why this is.

I'd be for supporting voluntary exit interviews for Sythe members who are leaving staff, or the website in general to figure out why it is happening and move to improve that.

 

it properly

Again lack of specific issues with what they're doing. Just comes down to you want money spent regardless of outcome probably because you want to see the site run into the ground.

This all comes back to your failed staff strike. You and a group of other ex-staff rallied together and tried to make a power play to get what you wanted and I called your bluff and let you all resign and had new staff the next day. Ironically the thing you were protesting in your failed strike was the one thing that's actually made this site active again: DNT.

 

Again lack of specific issues with what they're doing. Just comes down to you want money spent regardless of outcome probably because you want to see the site run into the ground.

Sigh.

I'm not an expert on social media. Therefore, I can't present you with how to grow a social media platform or use one effectively on a plate. That's where expertise comes in. Same reason I couldn't explain what Matthew does, I am not skilled in it.

This all comes back to your failed staff strike.

It wasn't a strike, I had and have no intention of returning after I resigned.

You and a group of other ex-staff rallied together and tried to make a power play to get what you wanted and I called your bluff and let you all resign and had new staff the next day.

We cared about the site enough to try and make a change for what we believed was the better and for any future staff members, you disagree with that, that's fine, your site.

To clarify, we resigned to resign, we weren't expecting to be reinstated or offered anything.

Ironically the thing you were protesting in your failed strike was the one thing that's actually made this site active again: DNT.

I'm glad DNT is working for you, we can't all be right in our opinions 100% of the time. But that was one very small issue within a whole host of issues, and not even the main one.

 

I briefly talked about this and started working on it when I was PR leader, but maybe we should look into why this is.

I'd be for supporting voluntary exit interviews for Sythe members who are leaving staff, or the website in general to figure out why it is happening and move to improve that.

This is typical for internships and volunteer positions in every field.

Exit interviews are a good idea but I don't think there's any specific thing that would cause people to stay longer. Generally dedicated staff have several rounds on staff with resignations between so they can focus on paid work or school.

Some staff take the position seriously and take me up on my offer to provide a resume reference. This is a financial site where multiple millions of dollars change hand every month. Staff positions are positions of trust and can be used as a reference on a resume. This is open to all staff members current and past, but I only give honest references. Some staff take this seriously others do not.