Trumps proposal for Temp Muslim Ban

[Xier0]

No relevant distinction to ISIS (a terror group originating from outside the U.S.) and Muslim Americans? Seems pretty obvious what the significant distinction is between the two.

Where did I mention ISIS? It seems you are making another pathetic attempt at a strawman. Islamic violence occurs all over the world - Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Nigeria, Qatar, etc, it isn't specific to ISIS controlled territory.

Source?

I said I would use your 10x number without even scrutinizing your source.

False premise?

Your false premise is that they are generating tax revenue, when instead, they are leeching welfare. There is no economic benefit to dead weight.

A ban proposal request would suggest the problem is current. For someone who said changes in the future doesn't affect the past, you seem to keep bringing up the past to support an argument that is relevant to the present.

You specifically, directly asked me specifically for an event that occurred in the past. I gave it to you. Now you are sad

 

Where did I mention ISIS? It seems you are making another pathetic attempt at a strawman. Islamic violence occurs all over the world - Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Nigeria, Qatar, etc, it isn't specific to ISIS controlled territory.

You responded to this:

The group isn't necessarily in the U.S., at least if you're talking about the ones causing terror. The influence of the group is definitely here, and that issue is something you don't fix by banning a religion from entry, if that's even possible.

With this:

Both Muslims inside the US and outside read the Quran, both worship Muhammad, there is no relevant distinction.

I mentioned ISIS. To which two figures are you comparing? I only mention the group and Muslim Americans.

I said I would use your 10x number without even scrutinizing your source.

That figure represented terror attacks (politically/religiously motivated attacks). I didn't provide any source that indicated "Muslims commit many times more violence than the average American".

I'd like to see your source on that however.

Your false premise is that they are generating tax revenue, when instead, they are leeching welfare. There is no economic benefit to dead weight.

Immigration spurs economic growth in two ways. First, it expands America’s workforce and encourages more business start-ups. Second, because immigrants’ educational backgrounds typically complement, rather than displace, the skills of the native-born labor market, immigration increases economic efficiency by supplying more labor to low- and high-skill markets.

Prove me wrong. You're saying I'm wrong, but I've given factual evidence that proves both statements are true, and I'm given no credible retort by you.

You specifically, directly asked me specifically for an event that occurred in the past. I gave it to you. Now you are sad

You responded to this:

My point was that Muslim migrants aren't coming to the U.S. to cause terror because the ones who are doing so are native born.

You're saying the problem is through traditional migration. This obviously isn't the case if it's now at it's highest point of significance and interest. You can also say this for infamous mass shooters in American history or anyone who commits a crime, but I don't see the point.

 

[Xier0]

To which two figures are you comparing? I only mention the group and Muslim Americans.

Muslims outside the US and Muslims inside the US.

That figure represented terror attacks (politically/religiously motivated attacks). I didn't provide any source that indicated "Muslims commit many times more violence than the average American".

I'd like to see your source on that however.

Islamic Statistics on violence, rape, terror, sharia, isis, and welfare

Prove me wrong. You're saying I'm wrong, but I've given factual evidence that proves both statements are true, and I'm given no credible retort by you.

You can't just post an incorrect source in order to back up a false assertion. We already covered this, you can't just pretend like we didn't already discuss this:


You said:

Also, immigration can expand the tax base for the government, so there is a pro in itself.

I said:

No - these Muslims migrate to the West to take welfare, not pay taxes. Over 90% collect welfare.

You said:

Who comes to the U.S. for the purpose of paying taxes? A bit weird.

I said:

No one does, which is why your claim that they are coming to pay taxes is a lie and a fantasy.

There are economic benefits to free movement, but open borders + the welfare state adds another variable you completely ignored.

You're saying the problem is through traditional migration. This obviously isn't the case if it's now at it's highest point of significance and interest. You can also say this for infamous mass shooters in American history or anyone who commits a crime, but I don't see the point.

What do you mean "I don't see the point"? If you have a sworn enemy who tells you they are going to kill you, you defend yourself instead of funding, feeding, and housing them.

 

Muslims outside the US and Muslims inside the US.

I specifically mentioned two figures, ISIS and Muslim Americans. What is the relevance in your response to my own?

Islamic Statistics on violence, rape, terror, sharia, isis, and welfare

What am I looking at? I don't see any statistics that backs your claim.

Your claim:

Muslims commit many times more violence than the average American

Although Muslims in the world outnumber Americans 5:1, I'd like to see the figures by comparison that they commit many times more violence than the average american, meaning per capita. The source you provided doesn't exemplify that.

Also, the U.S. ranks 1st in death by violence in worldwide rankings when compared to 16 other high-income democracies by a significant margin. Just so you get an idea.

You can't just post an incorrect source in order to back up a false assertion. We already covered this, you can't just pretend like we didn't already discuss this:

Still waiting to be proven wrong. Debating doesn't work that way. Typically, a counter argument is provided in response to another. Saying the source is incorrect isn't an argument.

No one does, which is why your claim that they are coming to pay taxes is a lie and a fantasy.

Who said they are coming to pay taxes? Taxes are compulsory.

Also, immigration can expand the tax base for the government, so there is a pro in itself.

Income Tax
Sales Tax
Property Tax
Estate Tax
Hotel Tax
Sin Tax

More people coming to America and paying any of the taxes listed means an increase in the tax base. It is common sense.

What do you mean "I don't see the point"? If you have a sworn enemy who tells you they are going to kill you, you defend yourself instead of funding, feeding, and housing them.

You're stereotyping a group of people. 25% of Muslims in the U.S. say they advocate violence against Americans. What about the other 75%?

 

[Xier0]

I specifically mentioned two figures, ISIS and Muslim Americans. What is the relevance in your response to my own?

No you didn't. Here is your exact quote:

The group isn't necessarily in the U.S., at least if you're talking about the ones causing terror. The influence of the group is definitely here, and that issue is something you don't fix by banning a religion from entry, if that's even possible.

You are trying to needlessly create multiple entities. We are talking about Muslims.

Still waiting to be proven wrong. Debating doesn't work that way. Typically, a counter argument is provided in response to another. Saying the source is incorrect isn't an argument.

Waiting for what? I posted the welfare statistics. Your source is incorrect, it doesn't show Muslim migrants, it shows all immigration. Stop pretending that posting a link automatically makes your argument infallible when your premises are false.

Who said they are coming to pay taxes?

You did, I quoted you saying that they increased the tax base. I proved you wrong with the statistics showing that they do not increase the tax base, they increase the burden on the native taxpayers who subsidize them.

Income Tax
Sales Tax
Property Tax
Estate Tax
Hotel Tax
Sin Tax

More people coming to America and paying any of the taxes listed means an increase in the tax base. It is common sense.

Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Taxpayer

9/10 are a net drain, 1/10 are possible contributors. This displaces any group with higher tax payments vs tax recipients.

 

You are trying to needlessly create multiple entities. We are talking about Muslims.

Seems to be a misunderstanding. Thought you were referencing ISIS as the "group". If you're talking about Muslims, say Muslims.

Waiting for what? I posted the welfare statistics. Your source is incorrect, it doesn't show Muslim migrants, it shows all immigration. Stop pretending that posting a link automatically makes your argument infallible when your premises are false.

How is the source incorrect? Of course it shows the statistics immigration as a whole, I did say and claim immigration spurs economic growth and the sources I provided attest to that claim. You mentioned the refugees being uneducated and low-skill labor workers, with an excess of labor work in the U.S.. I also covered this, and the source I provided also covers this, and refutes that last point. I'm still waiting for a credible retort by you.

You did, I quoted you saying that they increased the tax base. I proved you wrong with the statistics showing that they do not increase the tax base, they increase the burden on the native taxpayers who subsidize them.

I didn't say they are "coming to pay taxes". Stop with the strawman, the quote you're referencing does not say this either.

Base - Foundation of something

More people coming into the U.S. and paying taxes increases this foundation. It's simple understanding of reason.

Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Welfare
Taxpayer

9/10 are a net drain, 1/10 are possible contributors. This displaces any group with higher tax payments vs tax recipients.

That wasn't the argument.

You said:

I quoted you saying that they increased the tax base. I proved you wrong with the statistics showing that they do not increase the tax base

What I said in my prior post clearly shows this is false.

 

[Xier0]

Seems to be a misunderstanding. Thought you were referencing ISIS as the "group". If you're talking about Muslims, say Muslims.



How is the source incorrect? Of course it shows the statistics immigration as a whole, I did say and claim immigration spurs economic growth and the sources I provided attest to that claim. You mentioned the refugees being uneducated and low-skill labor workers, with an excess of labor work in the U.S.. I also covered this, and the source I provided also covers this, and refutes that last point. I'm still waiting for a credible retort by you.



I didn't say they are "coming to pay taxes". Stop with the strawman, the quote you're referencing does not say this either.

Base - Foundation of something

More people coming into the U.S. and paying taxes increases this foundation. It's simple understanding of reason.



That wasn't the argument.

You said:



What I said in my prior post clearly shows this is false.

Dead weight isn't an increase.

 

[Snowbunnies]

America was founded upon freedom of religion, but there is a standard to be kept. Personally, America shouldn't allow anybody in without background checks/past criminal records, but that's impossible. They can keep their religion, but from what I've seen in the UK, they should ban muslims.

 

[abjohn]

i have not like the drum because they have banned the Muslim in America
that is not good sign for Muslim

 

[Azie]

America was founded upon freedom of religion, but there is a standard to be kept. Personally, America shouldn't allow anybody in without background checks/past criminal records, but that's impossible. They can keep their religion, but from what I've seen in the UK, they should ban muslims.

Lmao what have you seen in the UK?

 

[Ninostap]

They should make a new country for muslims only made my america.