Thoughts on the US's current situation

[rossi1]

Well, Obama just gave his speech/proposal for raising the debt ceiling in an attempt to prevent the US gov't from defaulting August 2nd. His speech was followed by John Boehner's proposal and so forth (which included more or less extending the proposal by 6 months, which will not solve anything?). Boehner made the statement that "there is no stalemate here in congress" so, I'm not sure what Washington he is living in? I'm a liberal democrat, and by no means am I trying to make this biased (but I know it will be interpreted as such) but I don't feel that anything will be accomplished by either party. It's too bad that we're regressing even more and more...anyway, thoughts?

 

[Reboman]

We should default and escape the clutches of the Federal Reserve.

 

[Joker91]

Honestly? I'm tired of the Republican party as a whole, even the vast majority of my family whom belong to it. The rich is a very small portion of America, and seeing as they never seem to be up for supporting those who work, you know, the people who made America what it is and keep it that way for them, I'd rather them not even have a say in matters regarding the economy anymore.

I'm tired of getting fucking reamed up the ass because twenty rich assholes don't want to lose $50.

 

[Rsaccounttrader]

We should default and escape the clutches of the Federal Reserve.

That's not how it works...read up on things other than conspiracy theory videos

 

[rossi1]

Honestly? I'm tired of the Republican party as a whole, even the vast majority of my family whom belong to it. The rich is a very small portion of America, and seeing as they never seem to be up for supporting those who work, you know, the people who made America what it is and keep it that way for them, I'd rather them not even have a say in matters regarding the economy anymore.

I'm tired of getting fucking reamed up the ass because twenty rich assholes don't want to lose $50.

Couldn't agree with you more. Bipartisanship is more or less a dream, and a joke a this point, not that it would even accomplish anything.

 

['Merica]

Honestly? I'm tired of the Republican party as a whole, even the vast majority of my family whom belong to it. The rich is a very small portion of America, and seeing as they never seem to be up for supporting those who work, you know, the people who made America what it is and keep it that way for them, I'd rather them not even have a say in matters regarding the economy anymore.

I'm tired of getting fucking reamed up the ass because twenty rich assholes don't want to lose $50.

That's where your ignorance shows. You think they don't support this country, but they in fact ARE the one's supporting this nation. The top 1% of tax filers comprise 40% of the tax base. Now how is that fair? Tell me how they aren't already paying their fair share.

 

['Merica]

That's not how it works...read up on things other than conspiracy theory videos

He is right. How about you read up. The federal reserve is the greatest contributor to our national debt. The continual printing of money devalues our dollar and allows us to continue spending money we clearly don't have. Yet you want to keep them around? Why? To keep funding the multinational banks?

 

[Reboman]

That's not how it works...read up on things other than conspiracy theory videos

It's not a conspiracy theory. The shit's real. You just don't want to believe it.

Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.

 

[Joker91]

That's where your ignorance shows. You think they don't support this country, but they in fact ARE the one's supporting this nation. The top 1% of tax filers comprise 40% of the tax base. Now how is that fair? Tell me how they aren't already paying their fair share.

They aren't paying their fair share, though. If they can pay even double their current tax rate and still live highly above a comfortable level of life, while a vast portion of middle class and lower have to worry about even eating three meals a day at their current tax rate, how is that fair?

I'm going to just assume either you or your family lives in this top income bracket and hasn't had trouble with bills or even groceries/gas.

How is it fair that coming from a family who has everything, then you inherent it and don't work or barely work a day in your life gets to spend money on everything they desire and never worry about what the rest of America does?

Even for those who have earned to live in this top bracket income doesn't deserve being taxed at, basically, the equivalent of a hard working class person.

If you honestly believe that because a person has vast amounts of money, they deserve to keep it all while the working class and lower starve or worry their lives away, I pity you.

 

['Merica]

They aren't paying their fair share, though. If they can pay even double their current tax rate and still live highly above a comfortable level of life, while a vast portion of middle class and lower have to worry about even eating three meals a day at their current tax rate, how is that fair?

I'm going to just assume either you or your family lives in this top income bracket and hasn't had trouble with bills or even groceries/gas.

How is it fair that coming from a family who has everything, then you inherent it and don't work or barely work a day in your life gets to spend money on everything they desire and never worry about what the rest of America does?

Even for those who have earned to live in this top bracket income doesn't deserve being taxed at, basically, the equivalent of a hard working class person.

If you honestly believe that because a person has vast amounts of money, they deserve to keep it all while the working class and lower starve or worry their lives away, I pity you.

You assumed wrong. I come from a middle class family. THEY EARNED THEIR MONEY. You have absolutely no right to it. None, whatsoever. But, the government has fostered a generation like you who leech and suckle off of the government. All you want is those who have earned their money to help your lazy ass out. You want a handout. You want an entitlement. You think you deserve FREE healthcare. You think you DESERVE a chunk of their money they most likely worked their ass of for. They worked their ass off to be able to live well even when giving up half of it. What have you done in your life to be worthy of any of it? Nothing. You've sat around and been a conspirator the the man that is killing this once prosperous nation. Get a job and make something of yourself.

Again, 50% of the US population pays not a single cent to the federal government in regards to income tax. How about their pick their shit up and get a job and stop expecting a hand out. I'm tired of seeing lazy people criticize those who have made it and already pay more than what's fair.

 

[Reboman]

They aren't paying their fair share, though. If they can pay even double their current tax rate and still live highly above a comfortable level of life, while a vast portion of middle class and lower have to worry about even eating three meals a day at their current tax rate, how is that fair?

I'm going to just assume either you or your family lives in this top income bracket and hasn't had trouble with bills or even groceries/gas.

How is it fair that coming from a family who has everything, then you inherent it and don't work or barely work a day in your life gets to spend money on everything they desire and never worry about what the rest of America does?

Even for those who have earned to live in this top bracket income doesn't deserve being taxed at, basically, the equivalent of a hard working class person.

If you honestly believe that because a person has vast amounts of money, they deserve to keep it all while the working class and lower starve or worry their lives away, I pity you.

What isn't fair is the fact that some of those wealthier people might not spend a dime and they're still getting taxed regardless.

Compare some rich guy living very frugally and getting taxed the same as the rich lady who buys a penthouse and a yacht. It's not fair.

Of course I have remorse for those who can't afford to live comfortably, in reality it's quite difficult to achieve the American Dream.

But I don't support forcing others to cover for it based on no fault of their own. Not to mention that there are countless numbers of people being lazy and basically sponging off of welfare.

Lower middle class 19-year old minority here.

 

[Joker91]

You assumed wrong. I come from a middle class family. THEY EARNED THEIR MONEY. You have absolutely no right to it. None, whatsoever. But, the government has fostered a generation like you who leech and suckle off of the government. All you want is those who have earned their money to help your lazy ass out. You want a handout. You want an entitlement. You think you deserve FREE healthcare. You think you DESERVE a chunk of their money they most likely worked their ass of for. They worked their ass off to be able to live well even when giving up half of it. What have you done in your life to be worthy of any of it? Nothing. You've sat around and been a conspirator the the man that is killing this once prosperous nation. Get a job and make something of yourself.

Again, 50% of the US population pays not a single cent to the federal government in regards to income tax. How about their pick their shit up and get a job and stop expecting a hand out. I'm tired of seeing lazy people criticize those who have made it and already pay more than what's fair.

Actually, I worked hard and went to college, gaining degrees I worked quite hard to get. I did a good bit of computer and software work before I was in a pretty bad automobile accident last year. My right arm barely works, I have brain damage which mostly affects my memory and learning skills, and I'm not able to work currently due to my major and not so major injuries. I've been living off about $700 a month now with my soon to be wife. I'll hopefully be returning to college for a degree to help people like myself as a therapists this Fall or next Spring. Until then, I have a household to support on a measly income and some money I had previously saved.

I worked, and still do work my ass off in therapy and memory boosting classes, while others sit at home and watch their bank account grow.

Call me a lazy degenerate all you like, I'll continue to work and improve until I can be at, or better then, where I was before.

I hope you're never in the situation I am, hoping that next check comes so I can eat.

 

['Merica]

Actually, I worked hard and went to college, gaining degrees I worked quite hard to get. I did a good bit of computer and software work before I was in a pretty bad automobile accident last year. My right arm barely works, I have brain damage which mostly affects my memory and learning skills, and I'm not able to work currently due to my major and not so major injuries. I've been living off about $700 a month now with my soon to be wife. I'll hopefully be returning to college for a degree to help people like myself as a therapists this Fall or next Spring. Until then, I have a household to support on a measly income and some money I had previously saved.

I worked, and still do work my ass off in therapy and memory boosting classes, while others sit at home and watch their bank account grow.

Call me a lazy degenerate all you like, I'll continue to work and improve until I can be at, or better then, where I was before.

I hope you're never in the situation I am, hoping that next check comes so I can eat.

My hardworking grandfathers and father can assure I will never be in a position hoping a next check comes. Your misfortune gives you a right to the money of others?

 

[Joker91]

My hardworking grandfathers and father can assure I will never be in a position hoping a next check comes. Your misfortune gives you a right to the money of others?

I never stated I have the right to the money of others, really. I feel very strongly that they should actually support their country and those in it, though.

I understand that a great number of those actually using welfare don't deserve it. That is not my fault or the fault of those on it who do deserve it. It's the fault of the government and those they employ. If the cases were actually reviewed, or even actually examined, and the laws altered even just a bit, this wouldn't happen to begin with.

 

[Proc]

You assumed wrong. I come from a middle class family. THEY EARNED THEIR MONEY. You have absolutely no right to it. None, whatsoever. But, the government has fostered a generation like you who leech and suckle off of the government. All you want is those who have earned their money to help your lazy ass out. You want a handout. You want an entitlement. You think you deserve FREE healthcare. You think you DESERVE a chunk of their money they most likely worked their ass of for. They worked their ass off to be able to live well even when giving up half of it. What have you done in your life to be worthy of any of it? Nothing. You've sat around and been a conspirator the the man that is killing this once prosperous nation. Get a job and make something of yourself.

Again, 50% of the US population pays not a single cent to the federal government in regards to income tax. How about their pick their shit up and get a job and stop expecting a hand out. I'm tired of seeing lazy people criticize those who have made it and already pay more than what's fair.

Yet when you and your loved ones get sick, cannot work, and cannot afford healthcare, You will be depending on the same programs you condemn. You want everyone else to pay for these programs so you can utilize them, but you don't want to pay for them?

 

[blazinfasstt]

My hardworking grandfathers and father can assure I will never be in a position hoping a next check comes. Your misfortune gives you a right to the money of others?

so what makes you think you have a right to the money your hardworking grandfathers and father makes?

most people do not have relatives that could help them out in such ways.


I am going to guess that you have never paid your own rent.
I am going to guess that you have never had to actually budget your money in order to make sure you are able to eat for the whole month.
I am going to guess that you have never had a relative suddenly suffer medical problems that they cannot pay for because of the privatized health care system.

seriously, if you are against the wealthy paying taxes, at least agree that the minimum wage should be increased.

you cannot support a family, let alone yourself, on 8$ an hour.

 

[malakadang]

so what makes you think you have a right to the money your hardworking grandfathers and father makes?

You don't, however, your fathers and grandfathers have every right to give it to you.

most people do not have relatives that could help them out in such ways.

So? Make your own, many people have come from the bottom of society and traversed and transcended all expectations.

I am going to guess that you have never paid your own rent.
I am going to guess that you have never had to actually budget your money in order to make sure you are able to eat for the whole month.

Personally, I haven't though, I'm 16.

I am going to guess that you have never had a relative suddenly suffer medical problems that they cannot pay for because of the privatized health care system.

I have numerous relatives succumb to horrendous illnesses, including cancer and fractured bones. They all however had private health insurance. This is because they'd work their lives in order to obtain the lifestyle they'd like to live on in the future. Such a lifestyle has been obtained, and they are happy.

seriously, if you are against the wealthy paying taxes, at least agree that the minimum wage should be increased.

I am against the inordinately ginormous tax paid by the wealthy as is, it is unfair to them. Unfortunately, in the current system, minimum wage is essential. However, when Government stops printing fiscal money willy nilly, such a policy can be eradicated.

you cannot support a family, let alone yourself, on 8$ an hour.

Your problem, the world owes you no living, you have the same unlimited resource as everyone else; human labour.

Why do you care what other people can't do? It's their problem, and theirs alone. In the current system, they have appalling public health care. In a new system, they'd have free privatized health care, provided by the extraordinarily wealthy virtually free of charge due to such cases. This can be attributed to the 100's of millions of dollars they'd save due to the abolishment of taxes.

 

[blazinfasstt]

You don't, however, your fathers and grandfathers have every right to give it to you.

So? Make your own, many people have come from the bottom of society and traversed and transcended all expectations.


Personally, I haven't though, I'm 16.

I have numerous relatives succumb to horrendous illnesses, including cancer and fractured bones. They all however had private health insurance. This is because they'd work their lives in order to obtain the lifestyle they'd like to live on in the future. Such a lifestyle has been obtained, and they are happy.

I am against the inordinately ginormous tax paid by the wealthy as is, it is unfair to them. Unfortunately, in the current system, minimum wage is essential. However, when Government stops printing fiscal money willy nilly, such a policy can be eradicated.

Your problem, the world owes you no living, you have the same unlimited resource as everyone else; human labour.

Why do you care what other people can't do? It's their problem, and theirs alone. In the current system, they have appalling public health care. In a new system, they'd have free privatized health care, provided by the extraordinarily wealthy virtually free of charge due to such cases. This can be attributed to the 100's of millions of dollars they'd save due to the abolishment of taxes.

I was responding to a point that said that his relatives give him help, so we do not need welfare. I was stating that most ppl do not have these types of supports and so do need welfare in order not to starve in many situations.
just because some ppl have trans-versed these expectations does not mean it is reasonable to expect the entire lower class to just pull themselves up by the bootstraps.

many private healthcare plans do not cover a wide array of illness'

I suspect the moment you need to make it on your own, without the help of any relatives, you will be singing a very different tune.

also, as for being poor being their problem, I pose a hypothetical situation.

if you were in a room with 9 other people where you had all the supplies and you could either make them work for you for just enough supplies to allow them to live or let them live a comfortable life at the expense of giving some of your supplies away, what would you do?

Sorry, but I came into this argument with the assumption that helping your fellow man enough so that they can live with dignity and comfort is a good thing.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
-samuel johnson

 

[malakadang]

many private healthcare plans do not cover a wide array of illness'

You would select one to cover your needs. If It didn't you would pay for treatment.

also, as for being poor being their problem, I pose a hypothetical situation.

if you were in a room with 9 other people where you had all the supplies and you could either make them work for you for just enough supplies to allow them to live or let them live a comfortable life at the expense of giving some of your supplies away, what would you do?

Strawman, and, Reasoning by False Analogy.

Sorry, but I came into this argument with the assumption that helping your fellow man enough so that they can live with dignity and comfort is a good thing.

As a general consensus, it is good. However, if you have around 70% of your money stolen from you at gun point, you would be more interested in your own comfort than the comfort of others. Should 60% be dispensed back to you, I'm sure 90% of the 'rich' people would gladly help others.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
-samuel johnson

Aside from appeal to Authority, how is altruism any good?

 

[blazinfasstt]

You would select one to cover your needs. If It didn't you would pay for treatment.

Strawman, and, Reasoning by False Analogy.


As a general consensus, it is good. However, if you have around 70% of your money stolen from you at gun point, you would be more interested in your own comfort than the comfort of others. Should 60% be dispensed back to you, I'm sure 90% of the 'rich' people would gladly help others.


Aside from appeal to Authority, how is altruism any good?

I am sorry malak, but are you stupid?

you actually argue that if someone gets a random disease or medical problem that is not covered by their insurance, they should be blamed because they should have been able to predict the exact type of insurance needed. jesus christ, you have terrible logic.

rich ppl can help, but they would not help to the extent needed by society in order to thrive if they did not pay taxes.

when paying 70% of your cash still leaves you with millions of dollars left, you do not need to worry about personal comfort unless that money left you unable to buy a Lamborghini

the analogy is actually quite related. would you rather horde all your supplies or spread them around so that others can live comfortably?


I am going to save myself an ulcer by exiting this argument here.
I do not feel like arguing the benefits of helping your fellow man over hording your cash for selfish reasons.