There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens

Discussion in 'Something For All' started by Sythe, Dec 8, 2009.

There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens
  1. Unread #21 - Dec 18, 2009 at 3:43 AM
  2. Sythe
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    There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens

    It's a hard transition to make for most people. We all tend to have emotional attachments to ideas, but those ideas are worse than worthless to us if they are not true and correct. So follows a constant effort to weed-out and destroy fallacious reasoning and irrational ideas.

    It seems like a harsh sentence until one remembers that of all the directions one might take at any point in a chain of reasoning, only those few which are true and correct will aid us in attaining the ends we seek (whatever those ends be.) Every other direction is death (in some degree).
     
  3. Unread #22 - Dec 18, 2009 at 6:01 AM
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    There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens

    I agree with this 100%. I've been reading your threads about these kind of things, and I can say is, you're right in every aspect, Sythe. Although there are some minor things I disagree on.
     
  5. Unread #23 - Dec 19, 2009 at 2:42 PM
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    There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens

    Im from the UK.

    Taxes, give me free hospital check up, surgeries, dental treatment, college, bus travel.

    I'd rather pay taxes, then have these factors removed from me, or for my children. If i have any.
     
  7. Unread #24 - Dec 19, 2009 at 3:56 PM
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    There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens

    Well fortunately for you you won't get either. You'll pay taxes and receive no services. Currently you get back what? 10 cents on the dollar? And falling.

    Evil begets evil. If you support theft to further your own life then don't be surprised when you end up with no property.

    The mafia isn't here to help you, it's here to rob you. And you'd be a fool to believe otherwise.
     
  9. Unread #25 - Dec 19, 2009 at 4:16 PM
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    There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens

    How much is the average tax a year, and how much free schooling etc do i recieve from the government? The comparison is miniscule? I think not.

    Expand on "you'll pay taxes and receive no services"
     
  11. Unread #26 - Dec 19, 2009 at 4:23 PM
  12. Sythe
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    There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens


    Read some of my other threads.

    You'll pay over 50% of your life-long income to your slave masters (doing business as 'the government') in return they will pretend to provide you with a few bare essentials -- while at the same time outlawing competition in the provision of these essentials.

    You should watch the videos in the OP of this thread before commenting further (as to avoid derailing the discussion via a red herring fallacy.)
     
  13. Unread #27 - Dec 19, 2009 at 4:27 PM
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    There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens

    Gah stop saying fallacy. I think it is true, if we retained our income, we could easily pay for our own health etc.
    But my dad had prostate cancer. It was an extremely expensive procedure to remove the tumor. Paid for by health insurance. And police and state workers, without taxes, how would they be paid? Without them, shit would happen.
     
  15. Unread #28 - Dec 19, 2009 at 4:42 PM
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    There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens

    Was it not you who told us not to respond to someone unless their post pertains to the topic?


    Sythe, do you think an anarchy would be optimal? Because I do. I find that in an anarchistic society, social darwinism is in full effect. We are not subject to the idealistic tidings of a "government" designed to keep us all under their thumb, and we are able to each work for our own good. Sure, there would be suffering, but it supports the idea of each person working to be stronger, smarter, and more well-equipped. Many supporters of a free market would say that we have no incentive to produce better products, but the majority of products that are created in todays society are all wants, and very little need fulfillment. In an anarchistic society, the smartest and strongest would build the best survival mechanisms and would absolutely thrive.

    My 2 cents.
     
  17. Unread #29 - Dec 19, 2009 at 4:59 PM
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    There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens

    Not exactly
     
  19. Unread #30 - Dec 19, 2009 at 8:37 PM
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    There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens

    I too think an anarchy would be optimal, but i don't see how an anarchy is possible. People strive for power over other people, and so total freedom for everyone doesn't work in practice.
     
  21. Unread #31 - Dec 19, 2009 at 10:15 PM
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    There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens

    Every argument you deal with you use hard core proof that you can hold and that screams P-R-O-O-F. That doesn't work with everything. There are two sides to every argument. :rolleyes:


    EDIT: Sorry if this is off topic :eek: disreguard.
     
  23. Unread #32 - Dec 20, 2009 at 3:26 AM
  24. Sythe
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    There are no states, there are no governments, there are no citizens

    We already live in anarchy. There is no 'government'. The individuals doing business as 'the government' are just mafia, individual criminals. Voluntaryists just point out that these criminals should be brought to justice.


    The division of labour and empathy preclude the hypothetical 'social darwinism'. Consider the difference between surviving in a city, for example, and surviving on a platform in the ocean. The mechanisms for survival are completely different when other people are involved.

    People already feel so strongly for the poor that they will 'put up with taxes' which they think are going to help the poor. Imagine how much better the poor will be taken care of in a society where everyone gets to keep the other half of their income, and the economy grows 5 times faster because criminals (doing business as 'the government') aren't constantly draining it through theft, war, and compulsion.
     
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