The rule against discussing bans in the feedback section...

[SuF]

The third rule of the feedback forum:

3. Decisions made by staff are, frankly, made by staff. If you wish to express your opinion about a particular ban/promotion/demotion, speak to a mod, and they will relay your concerns in the staff lounge. It is not for debate/discussion here.

needs to be removed. Why? I will explain.

There are essentially two forums for which feedback for the site, staff, and rules can be post. One is the feedback forum its self, which should justs contain members opinions about an issue that they see with the forums. The other is the suggestion forum, where members can post suggestions on how to solve issues on the forum or just other general ideas. There is some mix between these forums for most issues, except bannings. In the suggestions forum, you can use bans as examples for suggesting changes, but you are not allowed to discuss them in the feedback forum. This creates an issue, which I explain below.

The suggestions forum takes an extremely long time for mods to even look at the suggestions and most of the time nothing ever happens with suggestions, even the good ones. Now, in regards to the feedback rule #3 issue, the suggestions issue makes it so that the only other way of respectfully discussing issues does not work and this creates a problem. What is it? It makes it so that members issues can not be discussed peacefully. Even when users try to post about it in the spam forum it is locked to prevent drama. This whole drama business is bullshit. Drama is simply a defense mechanism for people to shout when hard ideas are discussed. By bottling up the members annoyance by not letting them express feedback or have any say in issues that they find important on the forums, this rule is leading them to get to the breaking point. All it takes is one small event to set them off, and a huge disrespectful fight begins. This has happened a ton in the last week.

Members want to know what is going on. They want to understand situations. They want decisions explained to them. Finn's response to the major T.C. issue (http://www.sythe.org/showpost.php?p=7063971&postcount=150) is an amazing example. The staff can not understand the feelings that normal members get when these issues come up and they are ignored and silenced. This rule needs to be removed so that any member of the community can come into this forum and question a ban. The staff are not always right. Insights from the community are just as valuable as insights from the staff. Give them the information they need in order to make informed decisions and explain the staffs reasoning about any issue when questioned. Make is so that I can come in here and ask "What is the reasoning behind banning people for discussing DDos attacks offsite?", in a respectable way, where users can voice their opinions, concerns, and feelings to the staff so that they can help form a stronger, more close nit community with better policies that help everyone.

 

[FireZ]

Even when users try to post about it in the spam forum it is locked to prevent drama. This whole drama business is bullshit

Just a note, Spyike requested his spam forum threads to be locked.

 

[SuF]

Just a note, Spyike requested his spam forum threads to be locked.

For the reason of preventing "drama", which instead caused "drama".

 

[Killer Kid]

Sounds like an excellent idea I support. The staff shouldn't care if bans are discussed, this is a forum after all.

 

[FireZ]

Sounds like an excellent idea I support. The staff shouldn't care if bans are discussed, this is a forum after all.

Feel free to discuss your ban in the dispute forum, which your recent high pardon was denied also.

 

[Matt Hasty]

I think we should be able to give feedback on anything we desire, obviously with some limitations such as taking things to far or being completely disrespectful; but if the person whose banned doesn't mind the attention than whats the big deal? What's the point of having feedback if we're put on such a tight leash.

As for the suggestions I agree, it's being ignored by the staff that matter the most such as administrators. It needs to be cleaned out or at least the threads that are currently gone dead need to be replied to saying that the suggestion is currently being debated on. We need more staff to be openly honest with their opinions.

 

[goku usa]

I think we should be able to give feedback on anything we desire, obviously with some limitations such as taking things to far or being completely disrespectful; but if the person whose banned doesn't mind the attention than whats the big deal? What's the point of having feedback if we're put on such a tight leash.

As for the suggestions I agree, it's being ignored by the staff that matter the most such as administrators. It needs to be cleaned out or at least the threads that are currently gone dead need to be replied to saying that the suggestion is currently being debated on. We need more staff to be openly honest with their opinions.

People don't get banned for minor reasons. If they're banned, they have deserved it. There's no point in discussing perm bans as they will not be reversed unless rules change. In that case, the rule changing thread will belong to suggestion forums, not feedback.

 

I think you are getting carried away with how a forum is operated. The reason we have a staff in the first place is to sort these issues out quickly and effectively. It is not necessary for the entire community to discuss bans. Those are behind-the-scenes actions which are made to ensure the forum runs as smoothly and safely as possible.

Any member who is banned and is seen to be a high risk to the community will be made public. This is why we have announcements, so that users can be updated with important information.

Remember, this is a forum designed to discuss Online Gaming, with a focus on Runescape Trading. Keep it on subject, and if you feel there was a mistake in a ban, please contact a moderator privately. We understand that we do make mistakes, but the vast majority of bans are well deserved. Dealing with the small portion of cases should be done efficiently, not by posting a giant community thread. Unless users are planning to read the full situation, and put it in the correct context, opinions will be extremely biased and will actually cause more problems than they will fix.

One way to put this in perspective is the jury system. Courts choose juries randomly which they feel represent the views and values of the community as a whole. This jury observes the entire case for each side, and then makes their decision on the matter. This is done in contrast to simply letting anyone in the community vote on the outcome of a case.

 

[SuF]

I think you are getting carried away with how a forum is operated.The reason we have a staff in the first place is to sort these issues out quickly and effectively.

The staff is neither fast nor effective.

It is not necessary for the entire community to discuss bans. Those are behind-the-scenes actions which are made to ensure the forum runs as smoothly and safely as possible.

The members believe otherwise. By disallowing members from discussing bans, the staff is just creating tension and conflict making the site run a lot less smoothly.

Any member who is banned and is seen to be a high risk to the community will be made public. This is why we have announcements, so that users can be updated with important information.

The staff rarely explains bans and the users are interested in these bans and often get worried when people they trust are banned. Do not say you do things, actually do them.

Remember, this is a forum designed to discuss Online Gaming, with a focus on Runescape Trading. Keep it on subject, and if you feel there was a mistake in a ban, please contact a moderator privately.

Why should it be done privately?

We understand that we do make mistakes, but the vast majority of bans are well deserved. Dealing with the small portion of cases should be done efficiently, not by posting a giant community thread. Unless users are planning to read the full situation, and put it in the correct context, opinions will be extremely biased and will actually cause more problems than they will fix.

Why would it cause problems? Moderators would moderate the discussion so that it stays on topic and respectful. The users want to be able to talk about bans, so let them.

One way to put this in perspective is the jury system. Courts choose juries randomly which they feel represent the views and values of the community as a whole. This jury observes the entire case for each side, and then makes their decision on the matter. This is done in contrast to simply letting anyone in the community vote on the outcome of a case.

Jury's decide innocence or guilt. Users talking about a situation more closely resembles freedom of press.

 

[FireZ]

The staff is neither fast nor effective.

Hmm biased opinion of yours.

The members believe otherwise. By disallowing members from discussing bans, the staff is just creating tension and conflict making the site run a lot less smoothly.

Discussing bans is just going to start more drama and get more people fired up.

For example in the latest thread about R2 a bunch of people were saying scamming occurred. Yet no proof was ever presented.

The staff rarely explains bans and the users are interested in these bans and often get worried when people they trust are banned. Do not say you do things, actually do them.

Dispute forum
Spam forum
Where did (name here) go thread.

If you can't figure it out between those 3 places then you don't need to know.

Why should it be done privately?

Public spectacles wont help anything around here.

Why would it cause problems? Moderators would moderate the discussion so that it stays on topic and respectful. The users want to be able to talk about bans, so let them.

We'd be deleting posts all day long. Also the ban is only between 2 parties and 2 parties ONLY. The staff and the banned person.

 

[Spyike]

I honestly feel members should see all the facts and maybe weigh-in as a member of "their" community was/will be considered for eviction. Perhaps this will be considered for change... or another member community will someday rise. You just never know.

 

[Itz Me]

Hmm biased opinion of yours.

Not just his opinion, it's also the opinion of hundreds more members. Look at the account recovery section, BARELY ANY of the recoveries have been dealt with.

My friend's thread went untouched for 3 months, and even after PM'ng admins, nothing has been done.

 

[SuF]

Hmm biased opinion of yours.

Your's is just as biased.

Discussing bans is just going to start more drama and get more people fired up.

Wrong. Properly moderated discussions are not "dramatic". Denying members the right to discuss what matters to them causes much more upset.

For example in the latest thread about R2 a bunch of people were saying scamming occurred. Yet no proof was ever presented.

The user posted the situation and people posted their opinions on the facts presented. I glanced at that thread and there didn't need to be proof posted. The OP posted what happened to him and the community was trying to decide if R2 was liable. Do the users get to make that decision? No. Should they have the right to discuss it? Yes. Should the staff take into account what the community thinks? Yes, to an extent.

Dispute forum
Spam forum
Where did (name here) go thread.

If you can't figure it out between those 3 places then you don't need to know.

No comment.

Public spectacles wont help anything around here.

Why?

We'd be deleting posts all day long. Also the ban is only between 2 parties and 2 parties ONLY. The staff and the banned person.

Wrong. The dispute forum is public, and thus if a user wants to be unbanned it is public and thus in the public eye. The person is a member of the community and thus important to the community too. The staff members work for the community, making the it between the community again.

 

[Throne]

People don't get banned for minor reasons. If they're banned, they have deserved it. There's no point in discussing perm bans as they will not be reversed unless rules change. In that case, the rule changing thread will belong to suggestion forums, not feedback.

What if they don't deserve it? What if they were unfairly banned?

This happened to me (Just got unbanned today) for "ban evading" yet no proof was shown.

 

[Loose Code]

I see the staff is biased and has no grounds on not approving this suggestion. Probably the only person that will have a problem with this is that fairy finn.

I approve if this suggestion, hopefully it will eliminate some dumb ass rules put forth by finn.

 

[w000t]

I see the staff is biased and has no grounds on not approving this suggestion. Probably the only person that will have a problem with this is that fairy finn.

I approve if this suggestion, hopefully it will eliminate some dumb ass rules put forth by finn.

Finn sacrifices a lot of time for this forum when he surely has other things to do. No one cares if you don't like homosexuals thats your personal opinion don't bring it here. Most of the rules put forth are good rules and are put into place for a reason.

On topic: Just take it to the spam forum? Everyone discusses them there

 

[SuF]

Finn sacrifices a lot of time for this forum when he surely has other things to do. No one cares if you don't like homosexuals thats your personal opinion don't bring it here. Most of the rules put forth are good rules and are put into place for a reason.

On topic: Just take it to the spam forum? Everyone discusses them there

Spam forum threads get locked too.

 

[Govind]

Boohoo, you can't QQ about our pew pew.

 

[Maleficent]

People don't get banned for minor reasons. If they're banned, they have deserved it. There's no point in discussing perm bans as they will not be reversed unless rules change. In that case, the rule changing thread will belong to suggestion forums, not feedback.

No offence but in every thread i see you in you're kissing ass it's getting old now. You sound like a 4th grader ''well the guy got arrested he must of done something bad or else the cops would of never arrested him'' See the retarded logic about that?

Boohoo, you can't QQ about our pew pew.

I bet this isn't considered spam at all but a mod can do this bullshit but i get infracted for something very minor.

 

[Govind]

Boo to the hoo.

If we considered feedback on bans, that would make the entire purpose of the privilege to make our own decisions on bans obsolete. Why work hard modding the forum if we gain no real power?

Bans are not up for community discussion, and never have been. End of story.