Staking Glitches Allowed Now?

[Daemos]

I was browsing through the guides section and noticed a mod telling a user to post his request for a duel arena xlogging guide in the appropriate thread: http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1244610

I thought for sure that this was against the rules, so I looked at the "Runescape 2 Guides Rules" thread http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=536844, and found that rule #7 does in fact state that "Staking Glitches are now allowed to be sold".

I thought this was really strange, especially after reading the thread linked right above rule #7 that lists all of the guides NOT to be sold: http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=641542. Here it states that staking glitches are not to be sold.

So which is it? Is there a typo in the "Runescape 2 Guides Rules" or does the "DO NOT Sell These Guides!" thread need to be updated/removed?

I am strongly against staking glitches being sold, as there is no way to avoid falling victim to one of these glitches. I don't see the difference between using these glitches and stealing gold from someone trying to sell it here on site.

 

[KerokeroCola]

We've decided to allow them as a test run to see how it will turn out. In today's buggy-ass Runescape, you're basically staking always against a glitcher anyway.

Note - I've amended the contradicting threads. It was just an oversight, so thanks for letting me know.

 

[Daemos]

That is very disappointing to me, as it is straight up scamming other players, but it's not my position to make the rules.

The thread listing guides that should not be sold should be updated or removed from the "Runescape 2 Guides Rules" thread. Thanks for clarifying this.




EDIT: Grammar

 

[Pockets]

Yeah I don't like this either. It's selling a way to clearly scam other people.

This is no different than a guide on how to get away with chargebacks.

 

[Lone Wolfâ„¢]

Yeah teach people how to scam billions of gold so they can come and sell it on here.

 

[KerokeroCola]

I do agree that it's not entirely morally white, something I'm also uncomfortable with. We're intending this as a test run to see how black things become. We can't control every aspect of every trading on Sythe, and we wanted to this particular aspect over to the member just to see where it goes.

Besides, like I said, everybody in the duel area for 100m or more are glitchers. A lot of the low stakers are childish glitchers, as well.

 

[Daemos]

I don't mean to start an argument, but everybody at the duel arena staking over 100m certainly aren't glitchers. I do quite a lot of staking, and the majority of people don't glitch (probably only because they don't know how). I've only been xlogged on twice out of several hundred stakes, and it is a terrible thing to have happen to you.

Even if it were true that everybody was scamming, why would it then be a good idea for Sythe to encourage this type of behavior?

I really don't like where this is heading: "a test run" to see just how much players will scam. What is there to test? There is only one outcome here: players get scammed.

It's not my position to say what Sythe should and shouldn't allow, but I just wanted to say that I strongly disagree with this approach.

EDIT: Regardless, thank you for explaining the reason for this being changed.

 

[xkronic]

I think they should still not be aloud due to amount of leaking and how it can scam people out for billions, and since they stopped staking glitch guides here I swear I've never came across on in a duel lol.

 

[Cami3532]

I don't see how this is tons different then luring which is allowed. It doesn't effect me either way because I don't stake, but I understand how some would not like it because it goes against game mechanics to get an unfair advantage. I still don't think it is straight up scamming though, it gives an unfair advantage, but doesn't directly grantee anything, from what I hear it isn't 100% reliable either.

 

[DGod']

Oh sweet. Perhaps I will start selling my method of xlogging during stakes. I could make some RSGP on the side off this.

 

[6 0 3]

Why would this even be considered... It's straight up scamming.

 

[oxodium]

Why would this even be considered... It's straight up scamming.

It's already been implemented. Sythe is not runescape, it's a 'black market forum' where rwting is commonly accepted, and unquestioned.

 

[Admiral Mason]

It's already been implemented. Sythe is not runescape, it's a 'black market forum' where rwting is commonly accepted, and unquestioned.

This is different.

 

[Emperor Nero]

It's already been implemented. Sythe is not runescape, it's a 'black market forum' where rwting is commonly accepted, and unquestioned.

We as a community hate our scammers, why would we encourage it in other communities? I've always disliked luring because it is scamming.

 

[SuF]

Okay. I'm tired of explaining this over and over and over and over again but I will again. Sythe has it's roots in botting and cheating, not the market. People used to recover accounts, lure, stake glitch, etc, etc, etc, etc all the time and no one ever questioned it. It was all considered cheating and any bug or way to get ahead in the game was fair game. Now, Sythe has moved more towards the market and away from cheating so all of the new market people are seeing these things that look like scamming and are flipping out about it.

So, essentially you are either going to be a fully market site and ban any type of cheat that gives you an advantage over another (that is what cheats are) and completely get rid of one of the first things Sythe was here for or you are still going to allow it so you don't kill off a part of Sythe that many (including me) see no problem with.

 

[ifh]

The people that know staking bugs at the moment are smart enough to keep it quiet, and they're not retarted enough to sell it

The only methods that might be sold here are useless ones like infinite food etc.

 

[Daemos]

Okay. I'm tired of explaining this over and over and over and over again but I will again. Sythe has it's roots in botting and cheating, not the market. People used to recover accounts, lure, stake glitch, etc, etc, etc, etc all the time and no one ever questioned it. It was all considered cheating and any bug or way to get ahead in the game was fair game. Now, Sythe has moved more towards the market and away from cheating so all of the new market people are seeing these things that look like scamming and are flipping out about it.

So, essentially you are either going to be a fully market site and ban any type of cheat that gives you an advantage over another (that is what cheats are) and completely get rid of one of the first things Sythe was here for or you are still going to allow it so you don't kill off a part of Sythe that many (including me) see no problem with.

"New market people" are only "flipping out about it" because when they joined the rules clearly stated that it wasn't allowed. So, when "they see these things that look like scamming", it was because the rules clearly stated they were. Not everyone has been on Sythe from its inception, so of course not everyone is going to feel the same way about it as you. I'm sorry that as a mod you have to explain things to users when a rule is changed, not made clear, and is a grey area for many people, as even KerokeroCola admitted it being.

The people that run the site have made the choice to allow it, and that is fine, because they have the power to do so. I was just asking for clarification because there was, and still is, conflicting documentation about the subject. The thread that lists the rules for Runescape guides says it's allowed, but then directly links to another thread that says it isn't. Maybe if you fix that, and make an announcement that it's been changed, then maybe you won't have to inconvenience yourself by repeating things.

I stated that I am against the change, and as a member of the community I have the right to do so. Nowhere did I "flip out" or demand things be changed back, and I immediately recognized the right of the people running the site to do so.

You say that Sythe should be more focused around all types of cheating as it originally was, rather than just being centered around the market, but I don't see how these things can coexist to the extent that you stated. You want to allow explicit scamming in game, as well as recovering accounts (which lets in password cracking, hacking, etc.), but strictly prohibit any form of scamming here. I don't see how it will work, but I'm not an admin of this site, so I'm probably not qualified to make that decision.

Also, ask yourself what draws more users to this site, and effectively brings in more money: the huge accounts/gold/services markets, or the cheating/bug abuse community? I do not know the answer to that question, but I think the fact that you stated Sythe has moved more towards a market-oriented site over the years answers it clearly.


EDIT: I stated that you were a community mod by mistake, instead of support center mod. Also, grammar corrections.

 

[SuF]

"New market people" are only "flipping out about it" because when they joined the rules clearly stated that it wasn't allowed. So, when "they see these things that look like scamming", it was because the rules clearly stated they were. Not everyone has been on Sythe from its inception, so of course not everyone is going to feel the same way about it as you. I'm sorry that as a mod you have to explain things to users when a rule is changed, not made clear, and is a grey area for many people, as even KerokeroCola admitted it being.

The people that run the site have made the choice to allow it, and that is fine, because they have the power to do so. I was just asking for clarification because there was, and still is, conflicting documentation about the subject. The thread that lists the rules for Runescape guides says it's allowed, but then directly links to another thread that says it isn't. Maybe if you fix that, and make an announcement that it's been changed, then maybe you won't have to inconvenience yourself by repeating things.

I stated that I am against the change, and as a member of the community I have the right to do so. Nowhere did I "flip out" or demand things be changed back, and I immediately recognized the right of the people running the site to do so.

You say that Sythe should be more focused around all types of cheating as it originally was, rather than just being centered around the market, but I don't see how these things can coexist to the extent that you stated. You want to allow explicit scamming in game, as well as recovering accounts (which lets in password cracking, hacking, etc.), but strictly prohibit any form of scamming here. I don't see how it will work, but I'm not an admin of this site, so I'm probably not qualified to make that decision.

Also, ask yourself what draws more users to this site, and effectively brings in more money: the huge accounts/gold/services markets, or the cheating/bug abuse community? I do not know the answer to that question, but I think the fact that you stated Sythe has moved more towards a market-oriented site over the years answers it clearly.


EDIT: I stated that you were a community mod by mistake, instead of support center mod. Also, grammar corrections.

I am not annoyed at you and I'm sorry if I came across as such. It has just be suggested about 8000 times that every little cheat should be banned or unbanned or whatever and I have explained my thoughts through all of them before many things were banned and after many things were banned and its gotten a bit annoying. By recovering accounts I meant recovering low level, inactive accounts to acquire their name. That in no way condoles hacking, password cracking or any other form of malicious behavior. Stake glitching is not scamming as what is being done is not a trade, it is a bet. If the game allows you to do it and the other person agrees to the rules that are set out, why should there be a problem? It is a game mechanism (that everyone may not know) that allows one player an advantage over another. In all forms of competitions, the better person will have a better strategy and may hold information that can be used to better their chances against the other player. I do not see anything wrong with that. Therefore, staking glitches are no where close to scamming and the same logic applies to luring.

 

[Stakingfool]

Oh sweet. Perhaps I will start selling my method of xlogging during stakes. I could make some RSGP on the side off this.

I'd be interested in buying. MSG me.

 

[Daemos]

I am not annoyed at you and I'm sorry if I came across as such. It has just be suggested about 8000 times that every little cheat should be banned or unbanned or whatever and I have explained my thoughts through all of them before many things were banned and after many things were banned and its gotten a bit annoying. By recovering accounts I meant recovering low level, inactive accounts to acquire their name. That in no way condoles hacking, password cracking or any other form of malicious behavior. Stake glitching is not scamming as what is being done is not a trade, it is a bet. If the game allows you to do it and the other person agrees to the rules that are set out, why should there be a problem? It is a game mechanism (that everyone may not know) that allows one player an advantage over another. In all forms of competitions, the better person will have a better strategy and may hold information that can be used to better their chances against the other player. I do not see anything wrong with that. Therefore, staking glitches are no where close to scamming and the same logic applies to luring.

I understand where you are coming from, and I see how you could make that point, but I still disagree on the point of staking glitches, and all other pvp glitches, being equated to luring and not scamming.

In a lure, you have to talk me into doing something of my own free will. In the end, it is my fault that I fell for a lure. I may have been naive or let greed cloud my judgement when I followed you into a dangerous clan wars area in the hopes of you giving me some gold, but that is my fault.

With a staking glitch, take for example the glitches that allowed you to heal with no healing options turned on, there is no way for a player to defend or counter that, especially when the glitch is first discovered. I understand that you call this an in-game mechanic, and that they are just taking your in-game pixels. This is what the entire argument hinges on. But, when those pixels are going to be sold here on Sythe, they represent real money to me. The potential for real money is being taken from a player with no way to defend against it.

Perhaps you are right though, and the solution is for players not to engage in pvp if they don't want to be "scammed" in-game, as I would call it. Maybe this is an issue that Jagex needs to address, and not Sythe. If the rule makers of this site don't see that as scamming, then that is their decision, and they have grounds to think that. But, I will always take the stance that scamming players in game like this is no different than scamming someone on this site (by my definition of scamming). Just because it doesn't occur here shouldn't make it OK. That is just my opinion.


EDIT: I realize that we have different definitions of scamming, and mine may not be consistent with what should be allowed on a site such as this. If exploiting flaws in Jagex's game to directly take money from other users that have no way to defend against it isn't scamming, then it isn't scamming. This just needs to be made more clear here, and it looks like that is being worked on.