since when has using proxies = warranted a ban?

[JohnK]

this is news to me.

how is that even fair to permaban someone who is using proxies/VPNs/whatever other nerd shit there is. i can't see that covered in the rules anywhere and as far as i'm aware i havent seen the way someone accesses sythe as grounds for a ban before. it seems like a few moderators are taking the rules in to their own hands lately.


not calling anyone out, just looking for clarification.

 

[Magic Arrow]

If an IP links to a banned user, and there is a deviation between the rest of the IPs, then the user will remain unbanned as long as the IP is known to be a proxy.

 

[Nerfed]

Well I don't think you can be banned for using a proxy, but if your talking about what I think your talking about I believe he was banned because his account was linked to another account with a similar name that was banned, Also why would you use a proxy every time you post something that just makes things a little fishy. So with 1 account being banned with a very similar name and the other account using a proxy every time there posting something I believe that's grounds for both of the accounts to be under investigation but I don't think its allowed to be perm banned until proven without a reasonable doubt, but with the Admins/Mods we have at the moment its prone to be a perm ban.

Also I really do agree Mods are taking rules into there own hands when it comes to banning people, section banning and other things in which im not at liberty to discuss because I clearly don't want any hate or aggression to be brought upon me, but it is happening.

Don't get me wrong there doing a good job but, things are in desperate need of change.

 

[Raptor lx]

Well I don't think you can be banned for using a proxy, but if your talking about what I think your talking about I believe he was banned because his account was linked to another account with a similar name that was banned, Also why would you use a proxy every time you post something that just makes things a little fishy. So with 1 account being banned with a very similar name and the other account using a proxy every time there posting something I believe that's grounds for both of the accounts to be under investigation but I don't think its allowed to be perm banned until proven without a reasonable doubt, but with the Admins/Mods we have at the moment its prone to be a perm ban.

Also I really do agree Mods are taking rules into there own hands when it comes to banning people, section banning and other things in which im not at liberty to discuss because I clearly don't want any hate or aggression to be brought upon me, but it is happening.

Don't get me wrong there doing a good job but, things are in desperate need of change.

Whilst some of the moderation that has gone on recently is questionable, don't you think you're exaggerating this just a tad? Things aren't necessarily "desperate". Whilst certain acts by moderators/admins should be re-looked at, they are by no means as big examples of power abuse as are present on other similar gaming black-market forums, and we should be bear that in mind.

 

[Corey]

Using proxies does not warrant a ban. Using a proxy to hide your identity completely (ie. never posting from your real IP over your entire sythe career), does.

Some mods have been giving TwCs for such suspicious behavior, and some, such as myself, have been issuing permanent bans for it.

Nobody has a reason to use ONLY proxies to post on Sythe.org other than to evade a ban, however if there is a reason, they can gladly explain it. Nobody will be banned for being overly protective of their personal information.

Due to the sudden uproar about the "unwritten rule", one will be placed in the official rules in a few days, and there will be a standard punishment set that will be applied to all. If it is decided that those users will be issued a TwC, we will retroactively apply them.

Hopefully that helps.

 

You're totally right JohnK, but even while I was still staff a couple months ago I was starting to notice that a few mods were banning users based on only an IP match. All that needs to get done is that there has to be a clarification for newer mods and older, lazier ones alike that banning on the grounds of JUST an IP match is not only illogical but wrong.

If you cross-match my IPs, you'll find that I should have been banned a long time ago due to my proxy usage from time to time.

 

[Fendle]

I like this rule, if Sythe allowed people to use proxies all the time then obviously ban evaders will just use them then hide behind you can't ban me for using proxies.

 

I like this rule, if Sythe allowed people to use proxies all the time then obviously ban evaders will just use them then hide behind you can't ban me for using proxies.

There are more good, honest people using proxies than ban evaders, what you're saying here is just plain ignorant.

 

[Corey]

There are more good, honest people using proxies than ban evaders, what you're saying here is just plain ignorant.

I think you're misunderstanding. We're talking about the people who post form nothing but proxies, as in, they never post from their real IP. I'm not at all talking about the people who post from proxies occasionally, that would be outrageous.

 

[mage3158]

I'm not at all talking about the people who post from proxies occasionally, that would be outrageous.

How is it outrageous? It probably has become more common because of the ease of use from programs like TOR.

I understand questioning a person though, but bans can't lie from that alone.

 

Regardless, the IP should always only be a small part of banning a ban evader. If someone uses proxies and not their real address, it's definite cause for suspicion, but in no way should be conclusive grounds for a ban.

 

[Corey]

Regardless, the IP should always only be a small part of banning a ban evader. If someone uses proxies and not their real address, it's definite cause for suspicion, but in no way should be conclusive grounds for a ban.

99% of them are vaders, I have no problem listening to the reasoning of the legitimate 1%, as I am doing with Cynthia right now.

If we allow people to post from proxies alone and get off with nothing, or just a TwC, we will won't be banning any ban evaders for a while.

 

[Punjabi3]

99% of them are vaders, I have no problem listening to the reasoning of the legitimate 1%, as I am doing with Cynthia right now.

If we allow people to post from proxies alone and get off with nothing, or just a TwC, we will won't be banning any ban evaders for a while.

The IP matches should be used as a starting point to ban someone. I only ever used it as a foundation and from there built a report by comparing posts, emails, and accounts/ trading habits. Its not right to ban off IPs unless it can be backed up with other proofs.

 

[Emperor Nero]

You're referencing the Cynthia case. The fact is that I agree with you, but the Cynthia person added me on MSN and acted very suspicious. Nothing to constitute a ban but the email s/he added me at linked back to the request for account creation but JackGoff and I couldn't trace it back any further. I suspect there is reason to at least TWC for suspicious activity.

 

[Corey]

The IP matches should be used as a starting point to ban someone. I only ever used it as a foundation and from there built a report by comparing posts, emails, and accounts/ trading habits. Its not right to ban off IPs unless it can be backed up with other proofs.

We're not talking about matches, we're talking about the fact that users are hiding their identity completely by using only a proxy to connect to the site.

Theres nothing wrong with it if you have a good excuse, such as Cynthias, but I simply don't want any ban evaders running around unnoticed because they know how to use a proxy.

In any case, there is currently a staff discussion in place for this, so we will have a decision on this soon.

 

[Punjabi3]

We're not talking about matches, we're talking about the fact that users are hiding their identity completely by using only a proxy to connect to the site.

Theres nothing wrong with it if you have a good excuse, such as Cynthias, but I simply don't want any ban evaders running around unnoticed because they know how to use a proxy.

In any case, there is currently a staff discussion in place for this, so we will have a decision on this soon.

Didn't bubba fuzz only use a proxy? I remember someone fairly trusted did and is still around or went inactive.

 

Can you imagine the amount of users wrongfully banned?

I see it a lot, but cba. Blame certain staff members for this

 

[Corey]

Didn't bubba fuzz only use a proxy? I remember someone fairly trusted did and is still around or went inactive.

Not that I know of.

I can tell you now that if there was a search done on the ban list that there would be plenty of instances such as these turn up, this is certainly not a new thing. I've requested the bans as a sectional and had them pass.

 

[nodnarbusn]

I like this rule, if Sythe allowed people to use proxies all the time then obviously ban evaders will just use them then hide behind you can't ban me for using proxies.

Thing is there is NO rule. Punishing people for unknown bs isnt fair. But at the end of the day its not written anywhere and people are being punished for it.

Banning people and then retroactively putting a rule into play (which Corey is intending to do) is total bullshit. Dont get me wrong, everyone thought cynthia was a nuisance and an obvious vader but without an IP match you dont know.

Using proxies does not warrant a ban. Using a proxy to hide your identity completely (ie. never posting from your real IP over your entire sythe career), does.

When do you get to decide that oh ive had it, im banning this person for never posting from their real ip ???? Big flaw in your logic, if its up to discretion it should REALLY be up to someone else because with all the backpedaling you have been doing to save face for your rampage the other day its quite obvious discretion isnt your thing. You may as well of said outright you have none saying things like this..

Some mods have been giving TwCs for such suspicious behavior, and some, such as myself, have been issuing permanent bans for it.

Another illustration of your lack of discretion on these matters is

99% of them are vaders, I have no problem listening to the reasoning of the legitimate 1%

The fact that you acknowledge the fact that there are legitimate people who use proxies (bullshit estimate at 1% btw) yet you ban indiscriminately.

tl;dr Taking actions against people for things that only exist in unwritten BS (or that exist only in your head). Corey, have some discretion.. seriously. You mentioned not wanting people to leave the site because of being bullied (elena, and she INSTIGATED IT) but your actions have far more detrimental effects within the community than some girl POSSIBLY not wanting to log in anymore.

 

[Corey]

Thing is there is NO rule. Punishing people for unknown bs isnt fair. But at the end of the day its not written anywhere and people are being punished for it.

Banning people and then retroactively putting a rule into play (which Corey is intending to do) is total bullshit. Dont get me wrong, everyone thought cynthia was a nuisance and an obvious vader but without an IP match you dont know.


When do you get to decide that oh ive had it, im banning this person for never posting from their real ip ???? Big flaw in your logic, if its up to discretion it should REALLY be up to someone else because with all the backpedaling you have been doing to save face for your rampage the other day its quite obvious discretion isnt your thing. You may as well of said outright you have none saying things like this..

Another illustration of your lack of discretion on these matters is

The fact that you acknowledge the fact that there are legitimate people who use proxies (bullshit estimate at 1% btw) yet you ban indiscriminately.

tl;dr Taking actions against people for things that only exist in unwritten BS (or that exist only in your head). Corey, have some discretion.. seriously. You mentioned not wanting people to leave the site because of being bullied (elena, and she INSTIGATED IT) but your actions have far more detrimental effects within the community than some girl POSSIBLY not wanting to log in anymore.

No, it just shows that we need to have solid guidelines in place, which is what I'm pushing for in the SL right now.

All the disputes and such that have been denied due to people posting them from proxies (account creation disputes), and this is the first time this comes up.