[Resolved]IHateQuesting ~ max main purchase

Profile link: http://www.sythe.org/members/ihatequesting.464020/
Explanation of the trade: So IHQ sold me a maxed main 3 months ago wich got recovered yesterday. IHQ bought the account from Skate22 and Skate22 bought it from Probemas (orginal owner)
When selling this account IHQ told me it was 100% safe and he would be responsible for any problems. Now his only solution letting probemas recover the account now even if get back the account it's worthless. I can not rent it out or even use it my self since it can get recovered anytime.


Sythe PM picture: http://imgur.com/8ZJ6iJS
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This could have ended so badly for me since i rent out maxed mains it could have been recovered during a stake. I get people staking a few bill RS07 now and then. Who would be liable? me. Would it be fair if i i would blame IHQ because of him selling me an unsecure account no i am responsible for the next trade. So i don't see why IHQ thinks it's my problem who is going to refund him. It's your sale not mine.

The only solution i can think of is him refunding me the payment.

 

[Shin]

Who was the person who recovered it then? Probemas?

He is required to return the account to you or provide a refund. Buying an account to rent it out is quite a high risk, especially when the original owner is someone who is banned.
I'm not sure if you purchased it after Axelus was banned, but I'd like to think you're smarter than that.

 

http://www.sythe.org/threads/ihatequesting-unresolved-max-main-purchase/
@Shin

Not sure but i think it is Skate22 tbh and i think i purchased the account before he got banned. If i bought the account from IHQ shouldn't he be responsible for the sale? He can solve the matter with skate22 or Probemas but that is not my problem? I didn't buy the account from probemas or skate i bought it from IHQ.

 

[Shin]

http://www.sythe.org/threads/ihatequesting-unresolved-max-main-purchase/
@Shin

Not sure but i think it is Skate22 tbh and i think i purchased the account before he got banned. If i bought the account from IHQ shouldn't he be responsible for the sale? He can solve the matter with skate22 or Probemas but that is not my problem? I didn't buy the account from probemas or skate i bought it from IHQ.

iHQ is responsible for the sale as you did business with him, yes. However, it is his responsibility to return the account to you. If that cannot be done, then he will be required to refund you the amount you purchased it for.

 

http://www.sythe.org/threads/ihatequesting-unresolved-max-main-purchase/
@Shin

But like i said it's worthless now since it can get recovered anytime. Who would be liable if it's get recovered during a staking session? IHQ should have knew and told me about it not being 100% safe after skate22 bought it.

 

[Shin]

http://www.sythe.org/threads/ihatequesting-unresolved-max-main-purchase/
@Shin

But like i said it's worthless now since it can get recovered anytime. Who would be liable if it's get recovered during a staking session? IHQ should have knew and told me about it not being 100% safe after skate22 bought it.

It's your opinion that it's worthless as a result of the risk you now see for your own customers.

If it were to get recovered during a staking session, I suppose that's a road we would cross if it came to that.

By that statement, are you saying iHQ knew it wasn't safe and told you it was 100% safe? It appears you were clearly informed of the previous owners so I'm confused as to why you're making that statement.

 

[iHateQuesting]

Okay, here are my thoughts collected.


I saw this maxed main posted by Skate22 that he had up at the time and was asking an extremely low price for it. I figured maybe he lost his bank staking or maybe he had enough of the game, regardless.

Probemas had posted he was the original owner of the account and added no other detail for example (My worker is that actual Original owner not myself or the fact that Skate22 had it for awhile before deciding to sell it). I feel that when someone with a reputation like Probemas makes a post about an account he's doing that to reassure any buyer he can get full control of the account and he deems it safe.

I sold this account to Ruben for I believe $300, after payment a week or two later he had several rentals and the account had been locked, at this point I contacted Probemas and then he put me in touch with his worker who had all of the billing information, creation date/ISP/first 2 passwords ever used and Probemas still had the login email secured.

He managed to unlock the account in a few hours and everything was back to normal in a day or so, a month or so goes by and Ruben mentions the account is recovered and sends me a screenshot of the email he uses on the account having 322+ messages from password resets. Thus he has rented it several hundred times and probably several times to the same user over and over.

After this incident I have got in touch with the worker from Probemas and he has submitted the recovery again to at least try and get access back to the account, in which he was DENIED on... He has the creation IP/ISP/Billing info/ first passwords and the login email in their possession.

A few things that could have happened to lead us here.

I personally do not believe Skate22 has recovered the account as he has none of the original information, however it's not impossible that he did so.

I think it's possible Ruben rented it several times to the same user and with the password being changed and that user(s) jumping on the account with the fresh password may have logged it in the system as the owner's IP. I'm not sure how RS's system works as far as ownership goes it just makes sense if it's being automatically reviewed it's looking for the frequent player at this point? I just know that when you let 200 people onto your account after hundreds of changes and alterations to the account the system/recovery information and recovery may become extremely difficult.

125+ people know the login information and passwords for the account, just because if another shop hasn't had this problem it doesn't make the situation impossible (Ruben has told me PieGP hasn't had an issue like this)

Ruben has made it clear that even if Probemas can recover the account (which his worker was denied on doing) he doesn't want it period.. (not my fault).

I think that if a company is going to comment that they're the rightful owner of something with no added detail it leads people to believe the account is safe and they're responsible. He should also at least post a disclaimer like if you rent it out several hundred times or change ownership a bunch he can't guarantee a recovery because it's had so many owners, or something along those lines.

I find it highly unprofessional that yes Probemas/Axelus is a company and they do have workers just like myself, but even if i make an account and have someone train it I make the Account on my IP with MY email with MY passwords and MY billing information, if you're going to sell something and take ownership of it and post that you own it, you need to own it. Because now i am faced with this hassle.

I can't even get a reply from Probemas, just his worker.


Please merge this with Ruben's thread.

 

http://www.sythe.org/threads/ihatequesting-unresolved-max-main-purchase/
@Shin

He told me it was 100% safe and he would be responsible for any problemas well this is a big problem to me. He told me he bought it from skate22 but Probemas is the orginal owner meaning it's safe.

'if it were to get recovered during a staking session, I suppose that's a road we would cross if it came to that.'

Not going to be rude but it is not something we would cross if it came to that. A customer can lose some good money. I want a clear answer what would happen if that would be the case.

 

http://www.sythe.org/threads/ihatequesting-unresolved-max-main-purchase/
@Shin
@iHateQuesting

My thoughts on 'I think it's possible Ruben rented it several times to the same user and with the password being changed and that user(s) jumping on the account with the fresh password may have logged it in the system as the owner's IP. I'm not sure how RS's system works as far as ownership goes it just makes sense if it's being automatically reviewed it's looking for the frequent player at this point? I just know that when you let 200 people onto your account after hundreds of changes and alterations to the account the system/recovery information and recovery may become extremely difficult.'

Skate22 had his email registered and acces to the account for a long time. If u can say people that have rented could have gathered so much info that they would be capabale of recovering the account how would skate22 not be able to do that with even more info than just a few passwords. That makes no sense.

 

[Shin]

http://www.sythe.org/threads/ihatequesting-unresolved-max-main-purchase/
@Shin

He told me it was 100% safe and he would be responsible for any problemas well this is a big problem to me. He told me he bought it from skate22 but Probemas is the orginal owner meaning it's safe.

'if it were to get recovered during a staking session, I suppose that's a road we would cross if it came to that.'

Not going to be rude but it is not something we would cross if it came to that. A customer can lose some good money. I want a clear answer what would happen if that would be the case.

It would ultimately come down to finding out who recovered the account and they would be required to do the refund.

If it's not possible to track that down, you would be responsible as you were the one offering the service to the user where there was risk involved.

 

http://www.sythe.org/threads/ihatequesting-unresolved-max-main-purchase/
@Shin

Well in that case i can not rent or use the account.

 

[Shin]

http://www.sythe.org/threads/ihatequesting-unresolved-max-main-purchase/
@Shin

Well in that case i can not rent or use the account.

I don't see how that's his problem given the history and amount of logins with the account. It's not like you weren't aware of this risk. There's always risks involved with accounts when you're not the original owner.

 

http://www.sythe.org/threads/ihatequesting-unresolved-max-main-purchase/#post-16547095
@Shin

If he tells me Probemas is the orginal owner then i obv i think it's safe? He told me he is 100% responsible.

 

[Shin]

http://www.sythe.org/threads/ihatequesting-unresolved-max-main-purchase/#post-16547095
@Shin

If he tells me Probemas is the orginal owner then i obv i think it's safe? He told me he is 100% responsible.

And in that lies the problem with every account sale ever done on Sythe. Account trades are never 100% safe and with how long you've been around I thought you would know better than to say or think that.

Also, you've mentioned this "100% responsible" thing at least 3 times now, but I've yet to see anything claiming or proving that.

Nonetheless...
I've informed iHQ of the options he has to come to a resolution on this matter.

• Contact Axelus and get him to recover the account or refund the $300 payment so it can be delivered to you.
• Refund the $300 payment and take the loss until Axelus decides to pardon again.
• Attempt to recover the account on his own accord or discover who was able to recover it.

As a final note, I want to see the e-mails you received which resulted in the account being recovered. E-mail, password, whatever. I want to see everything which notified you it was recovered before iHQ attempts to do what it listed above. @Ruben Eason

 

[iHateQuesting]

I think the safest outcome would be Probemas to issue a full refund in the amount of $300 which is stated above, A recovery which been proven to fail after asking for one to be done, and if he some how submits a second and it's recovered it really and truly seems like too much hassle to deal with this again as the account is deemed unsafe as of now.

I would have never bought the account if Probemas had stated the account could be contested in his post on the OP's thread (along with the fact a worker made it, I would never sell something for a worker of mine and claim it as my own, people trust YOUR reputation) as when he posted on the thread it sounded as if he had control and it was his maxed main and was allowing the seller to use his reputation to help secure the trade. That being said, I will be pushing Probemas for a $300 refund in PayPal/Bitcoin/RSGP to return it to Ruben, I was informed by his live chat he would be online in 7-8 hours and could help then. I would like to hope that if i come out the $300 refund if Probemas chooses not to pay until he is eligible for a pardon that this will be considered scamming and refunding when convenient.

 

[Shin]

I think the safest outcome would be Probemas to issue a full refund in the amount of $300 which is stated above, A recovery which been proven to fail after asking for one to be done, and if he some how submits a second and it's recovered it really and truly seems like too much hassle to deal with this again as the account is deemed unsafe as of now.

I would have never bought the account if Probemas had stated the account could be contested in his post on the OP's thread (along with the fact a worker made it, I would never sell something for a worker of mine and claim it as my own, people trust YOUR reputation) as when he posted on the thread it sounded as if he had control and it was his maxed main and was allowing the seller to use his reputation to help secure the trade. That being said, I will be pushing Probemas for a $300 refund in PayPal/Bitcoin/RSGP to return it to Ruben, I was informed by his live chat he would be online in 7-8 hours and could help then. I would like to hope that if i come out the $300 refund if Probemas chooses not to pay until he is eligible for a pardon that this will be considered scamming and refunding when convenient.

That is pretty much all that can be done at this time.

If he refuses to refund the $300 I will add it to his ban reason so he will be ineligible to pardon until refunded, but you'll still be responsible and required to refund Ruben Eason the $300 as well.

Please update me as soon as you receive a response.

 

[iHateQuesting]

I have got in contact with Probemas, He messaged me on Skype about this and I asked him about him being the original owner of the account which is how it was sold, when he says "my company owns it" which doesn't make any sense in the world how your company can be the original owner. You either made it or you didn't.

Probemas has told me it isn't his responsibility to even help with an account recovery and that he does so out of the kindness of his heart... He tried to tell me i had issues with the account previously and that I lied to ruben and said that I've never had an issue which isn't true as the only issue i had was on march 16th after ruben purchased the account and rented it several times did it become locked, after this Probemas recovered the account and restored access. 6 weeks later here we are without access to the account, and it seems the original owner can't get access either.

Probemas thinks he should have to refund the first buyer for the account but no one else after, he is also arguing that it's probably the first buyer submitting these recoveries which seems nearly impossible seeing how they don't have the ISP/IP/First passwords or creation date+ billing information. I guess when he posted on Skate22's thread about him being the owner (when people see this posted they think the account is more secure/allowing the seller to use his reputation to help with the resale of the account as no added detail was added such as "the account may be contested" he gave a false sense of security) and now we are all up in arms over it.
Please merge. @Shin

 

[ProbemasMissYouAll]

Hello everyone,

It feels great to be posting on Sythe again. I really wish that the circumstances of the post were different.

After conducting some research and looking for previous topics discussing similar situations I found a thread where exact same issue is discussed:

http://www.sythe.org/threads/runescape-account-recovery-procedure/

Here’s the situation:

Probemas (A) sells a brand new account along with the original email to person B.

B re-sells that account to IHateQuesting (С).

IHateQuesting (С) re-sells it to Ruben (D).

Now Ruben (D) is having problems with the account which were most likely caused by the swindles conducted by B.

IHateQuesting (C) refunds Ruben (D), and now Probemas (A) is supposed to refund IHateQuesting (C)? What is the reason for person B suddenly falling out of the picture, while he was the one who sold the account to IHQ (C)? Of course, due to the fact that B most probably disappeared or ignoring IHQ, it seems very convenient to ignore the fact that B re-sold the account, and to demand a refund out of Probemas to get out of the situation dry.

If you check the above mentioned topic, there is a statement there that person B does have a chance to recover the account after the re-selling was done.

This is definitely not an unprecedented case. A few months ago, DanGolder (http://www.sythe.org/members/dangolder.449729/) purchased a main from me and re-sold to others. After that, he kept recovering that account and scamming people. I was not responsible for that, so how come I should be held responsible now?

Questions that people ask me about providing the proof of the accounts indeed being created by Probemas only invite skepticism. They believe that it provides a guaranteed 100% protection, whereas I always warn them that an account can always be recovered by the first buyer. The only case where 100% security is guaranteed is when a brand new account is bought from Probemas directly. At this point, I have sold more than 20 mains within 2 years and never had a problem with the original buyers – only with people who bought the accounts from someone else. I was always glad to assist them as much as I could in cases like that and help in account recovery; I do not know whether I was obliged to do that or not, but I have never denied a request to help any person who owned the account. Months ago I helped IHateQuesting in regaining control over the very same account; I tried helping this time as well, and submitted exactly the same information. However, the request was denied for unspecified reasons; perhaps this depends on which Runescape moderator reviews the request.

If I have fully secured the account for the first buyer, who will then always have a chance to recover the account in spite of any circumstances, why should I be held responsible for anything occurred after further re-sales?

Best regards,
Probemas

 

[Dave]

@Shin I don't think Probemas is the one to be taking this repayment, at least not in full. He's liable for recovering the account but if it's been re-sold tons of times that's not really on him. As far as his personal business is concerned, he sold the account and he shouldn't have to pay any refunds, especially not any full refunds

 

[Dave]

Wait hold up, Probemas should be able to recover the account - if not, then thats a dif issue that I missed. If probemas can't recover the account as he's the original owner then the liability will fall onto him unless there's something else im missing

Who has hold of the account right now, do we not know? Another thing to consider is the fact that IHQ purchased it and made profit off the account from Skate by re-selling it, but now all the liability is falling onto Probemas. It just doesn't seem right in my eyes that ALLLLLLLL of the liability falls onto Probemas. This is a shit situation