Remove Vouches for Programming and Web Services

[Emperor Nero]

This has always been my argument when graphic vouching has been brought up. It is essentially the same thing as programming. A client says 'I need x, y, and z done and I will pay you so much (or asks an estimate)' then the artist or programmer goes and does it. It is the same trade in essence, but one you are allowed to vouch for and one you are not. The premise of this suggestion is to eliminate the double standards of this market dynamic. I could be the most prolific graphic artist in Sythe history and leave my mark all over, and still end up with less vouches than a mediocre programmer who does the same kind of tasks but can receive vouches for his tasks.

There is no trust involved in these trades, you can make a functional website or program in no time with the skills and knowledge, and again they're the same trade format. Anyone can pick them up and do them, the only main difference is that it takes the basic knowledge of a programming language to do programming. If graphic vouches were allowed for paid graphics people wouldn't be paying for someone who went into paint and took 10 seconds to draw something, and even then you run up against the argument that you have to check the vouches for yourself. So the logic here at Sythe concerning these issues is odd, and not exactly logical.


tl;dr: Eliminat vouches for programming and web design because it is essentially the same thing as a graphics trade.

 

[ivyfpop]

This limiting the amount of services that can be done really. Let's use "Dialatic" in a example. Let's say that he only offers web creating/programming services during the time that he stays here on sythe and does well around 25-50 services, while he strives off being able to do his service and it's the only thing that he offers, he will still have no vouches to display as all of his vouches are "Invalid". Thus, he has to go first to other members, even though he's done so many services and earned the trust of the vouch. Also, he spent time doing these services and the work is much harder than just selling gold or other things.

 

[Emperor Nero]

This limiting the amount of services that can be done really. Let's use "Dialatic" in a example. Let's say that he only offers web creating/programming services during the time that he stays here on sythe and does well around 25-50 services, while he strives off being able to do his service and it's the only thing that he offers, he will still have no vouches to display as all of his vouches are "Invalid". Thus, he has to go first to other members, even though he's done so many services and earned the trust of the vouch. Also, he spent time doing these services and the work is much harder than just selling gold or other things.

I am not sure what you mean or the counter-argument you are presenting. I am arguing that the two services are the same fundamental 'skeleton' if you will, and that one you can get vouches for and the other you cannot. This creating a double standard in the market.

 

[RuneScapeJJ]

I can see your point but I think vouches for graphics should be allowed. There are hundreds of people that have vouches like "vouch got me 30 woodcutting", "got 40 attack for rune skimmy very fast vouch", etc. Those can simply be achieved by running a script that can potentially also put their accounts at a danger.

Making graphics usually requires more effort, except there are a lot of graphical artists right now that are just using 3d text templates over and over again..

I'm not sure what your problem is with vouches, it's the quality that matters and not the quantity. I also don't see the point in not allowing vouches for graphics as long as the graphics are added in the vouch - just like the general concept of software produced is mostly added.

 

[Emperor Nero]

I can see your point but I think vouches for graphics should be allowed. There are hundreds of people that have vouches like "vouch got me 30 woodcutting", "got 40 attack for rune skimmy very fast vouch", etc. Those can simply be achieved by running a script that can potentially also put their accounts at a danger.

Making graphics usually requires more effort, except there are a lot of graphical artists right now that are just using 3d text templates over and over again..

I'm not sure what your problem is with vouches, it's the quality that matters and not the quantity. I also don't see the point in not allowing vouches for graphics as long as the graphics are added in the vouch - just like the general concept of software produced is mostly added.

I have no problem with program designers, I am just saying that we can't allow this double standard in the market. Either gives us graphic vouches or take away the vouches for programming since they're essentially the same trade. The upper staff has something against graphic vouches for some reason and I have no clue why, but every time we start a dialogue about it FireZ comes and locks it.

 

[RuneScapeJJ]

I have no problem with program designers, I am just saying that we can't allow this double standard in the market. Either gives us graphic vouches or take away the vouches for programming since they're essentially the same trade. The upper staff has something against graphic vouches for some reason and I have no clue why, but every time we start a dialogue about it FireZ comes and locks it.

No vouches for graphics has been going on for too long so they can't just simply allow it now and frustrate all graphic designers that never acquired vouches for hundreds of graphical works.

On the other hand vouches for programming have been going on too long to take them away. It's just how Sythe works. I've followed a few topics similar to these and they all get locked mostly with the "do not support list" as argument. Can't really do much against it unfortunately.

 

[Emperor Nero]

No vouches for graphics has been going on for too long so they can't just simply allow it now and frustrate all graphic designers that never acquired vouches for hundreds of graphical works.

On the other hand vouches for programming have been going on too long to take them away. It's just how Sythe works. I've followed a few topics similar to these and they all get locked mostly with the "do not support list" as argument. Can't really do much against it unfortunately.

I've made this thread to argue my point that there is a huge double standard in the market that exists as it currently sits, and that there is a huge hole in the argument presented by those who are in favor of programming vouches but not graphic vouches.

This suggestion is to eliminate Programming vouches though, not add graphic vouches. Again, I have nothing against programmers it is just unfair that programmers do the same kinds of trades as graphic designers but get vouches for them.

 

[iJava]

No trust? With graphics you can see if there are errors with the work but with programs everything can look fine but it may not be. Furthermore I could make a fake program, show them it and they pay me only to find it does nothing at all.

You're also trusting the programmer with some of your clients sometimes not to put anything malicious as well as making it secure.

I could go on all day and have no problem to if you wish.

 

[Noam]

No trust? With graphics you can see if there are errors with the work but with programs everything can look fine but it may not be. Furthermore I could make a fake program, show them it and they pay me only to find it does nothing at all.

You're also trusting the programmer with some of your clients sometimes not to put anything malicious as well as making it secure.

I could go on all day and have no problem to if you wish.

Just because vouches aren't exchanged doesn't make it so either part is unable to file a scam report.
If the client doesn't pay, or the program doesn't function at all, a scam report would be handled properly. If a program is buggy, that would equate to a shit piece of GFX, and we had a discussion about those a while back.

 

[Aimless]

I think vouches should be allowed for everything, besides MM'ing. If it's an issue with collection of vouches, then it shouldn't be considering the amount of people who vouch collect through minuscule RS services or buying/selling upgrades.

What about a new mandatory vouch system that's simple such as a trade feedback system, where you initiate a trade, finish with positive or negative feedback and a small 'why?' along with perhaps amount traded. This would create a very detailed and comprehensible vouch system if coded well.

 

[Syed]

I think vouches should be allowed for everything, besides MM'ing.

What?

Vouches count the most when MMing, you have the ability to scam both parties, but you don't. I was OMM for about a year, I could'a scammed a fuckload. I don't know what your logic is for this, but it's obviously not thought through properly

 

some programs require really long days / weeks to be created.
I do not support this.

 

[Emperor Nero]

some programs require really long days / weeks to be created.
I do not support this.

The same can be said for graphics. Have you ever made an entire site, or done a large package? There are times that it could take you days to get things right, and then you'll have to go through revisions.

I can trust someone to make a program without malicious code in it, but I can also trust a graphics guy to make me site without using a pre-made template.

 

For the record I have 2-3 vouches for $250+ (each) web development jobs, where I was handed the payment first. Not all of them involve no trust.

 

[Emperor Nero]

For the record I have 2-3 vouches for $250+ (each) web development jobs, where I was handed the payment first. Not all of them involve no trust.

I am sure Kina or Moonglare could contend the same for graphics, but that doesn't change anything does it?

 

[FireZ]

Denied.