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Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.

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Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?p=13028205#post13028205

Scammed individual has not been repaid yet support/no supports already issued. Getting the victim repaid should be your priority before offering any opinion on the issue. The 7 or 14 days or whatever it is now from whenever the first moderator replies should then begin after the user has been repaid and the first moderator offers an opinion.
 
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
I understand Mods should make sure the user refunds before even considering to support/no-support his thread.
 
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
Xier0 said:
Staff isn't making efforts to get members refunded before denying a pardon, they just deny outright
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The banned user in question should be the one making the effort, not us.

If said banned user requests up to date contact information for a victim (from Sythe), to refund them, I will happily search for it to aid in the repayments. Beyond this, the effort should be made by the banned user.
 
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
subaru_fan said:
The banned user in question should be the one making the effort, not us.

If said banned user requests up to date contact information for a victim (from Sythe), to refund them, I will happily search for it to aid in the repayments. Beyond this, the effort should be made by the banned user.
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I disagree... I think that if Staff give their opinions on pardons BEFORE the user has refunded anyone, they're kind of screwing over the people who were scammed... Even if the Staff have no intentions of unbanning, or pardoning said user, they should try and help the people that were scammed get their money back.

Of course, if the banned user TRULY regrets his actions he will make the effort to repay without being told to. However that's not always the case. Sometimes they're only offering to refund the people they scammed to make it seem like they regret it. In these cases, which to me seem like the majority of them, the staff should not deny, or accept anyone until they've made a real effort to refund the users.
 
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
Proposed the following revision of the Request a Pardon section stickies in the staff lounge. Reducing them from 4 to 1 and incorporating these concerns. Will let you all know what the outcome is.

About pardons

This forum is for users - banned or unbanned - to appeal for a pardon.
  • If you're banned, you're admitting to an offence and requesting forgiveness from the staff to be unbanned and return
  • If you are unbanned, you are turning yourself in for an offence we are not yet aware of
If you do not, however, think your ban was warranted then you're in the wrong place. Go to: http://www.sythe.org/dispute-ban-twc/​

High pardon template

  • Must be titled "[Your username] requesting a pardon for [ban reason]"
  • Contents must include:
    • Your profile link
    • Report/post/reason that got you banned
    • Proof of contacting victims for repayment or repayment of victims
    • Anything you weren't banned for but want to confess to now
    • Detailed description of the events that took place and why you think we should forgive you

Pardon procedures

Staff can post a "no support" without specifying reasoning. If two Administrators "veto" your pardon, it will be instantly denied. You can only pardon once every 6 months.

First stage: You post your pardon. You have 7 days to collect 5 supports. You can contact staff to ask them to look at it. Not gaining 5 supports will lead to a denied pardon.
Second stage: Pardons passing stage one will be copied to the upper-staff's lounge (consisting of Global Moderators and Administrators). It must gain a 60% majority vote in it's favour to pass. This lasts for 2 weeks.
The decision: You are either unbanned or remain banned after two weeks. You can contact a Global Moderator or Administrator to double check if you are unsure after two weeks.

Requirements

  • Use the template (or similar) provided above.
  • Be able to demonstrate reform of character and legitimate regret for your offence(s).
  • Be able to demonstrate good will toward the site without hostility, and be willing to accept the verdict of this pardon process without complaint.
  • Repay all victims and provide evidence of this. If you cannot contact them, provide evidence of trying to without success.

Pardons not meeting these requirements or following the template will be locked and have to be re-submitted.

For all pardon requests posted after October 8, 2012:

There is no longer any "conditional support" - (ie. "support, but with a permanent market ban/trade with caution/last chance usergroup") - staff supporting a pardon request must be fully confident that if the user returns, they are not going to be a further problem for the community, and that they truly deserve full reinstatement.
​
 
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
Roary said:
http://www.sythe.org/request-pardon...irements-rules-avoid-thread-being-locked.html

Procedure will now require the pardoning member to either have:
  • Repaid
  • Attempted to contact the victims without success

Those not meeting this requirement will be locked. Locked pardons do not count toward the 6 months waiting time.
Click to expand...

Awesome Roary, thanks for this change.
Might be good to look at this one then:
http://www.sythe.org/request-pardon...kittle-high-pardon-first-time-ban-evader.html
 
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
Why is it even a question if somebody pays back their scam victims that they'll be unbanned or not? Of course they should be unbanned, it will probably get a lot of other people to come forward about scams they've done as well. Give them a rank or symbol that means "Previously Pardoned" if you want to punish them but don't tell them to fuck off before they even pay the people back.

On the other hand, people need to be paying what they owe back because they WANT to pay it back. Let's not make it any harder for them than it is.
 
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
SuF said:
Very good but you should not just lock any threads if they need assistance paying people back or what not.
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It shouldn't be locked, but the repayments documented on the pardon itself.

Example:

John - $200 (Like to scam accusation if possible) - Agreement reached - pending payment

Rick - $100 - Agreement reached - Paid

Frank - $50 - Attempted contact - agreement not reached
 
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
TradeFortress said:
Why is it even a question if somebody pays back their scam victims that they'll be unbanned or not? Of course they should be unbanned
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I don't see why, just because they have repaid their victims doesn't mean they won't scam again.

If someone scammed $500, repaid it, and pardoned, that's no reason to auto-approve their pardon
 
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
subaru_fan said:
I don't see why, just because they have repaid their victims doesn't mean they won't scam again.

If someone scammed $500, repaid it, and pardoned, that's no reason to auto-approve their pardon
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Exactly, or if someone had scammed $100, was banned, repaid, only to scam someone for $1000 instead.. That's terrible.
 
Pardon Problem @ Mods - You're Doing it Wrong.
TradeFortress said:
It shouldn't be locked, but the repayments documented on the pardon itself.

Example:

John - $200 (Like to scam accusation if possible) - Agreement reached - pending payment

Rick - $100 - Agreement reached - Paid

Frank - $50 - Attempted contact - agreement not reached
Click to expand...

Requiring proof of repayment is exactly the same as documenting repayments only no way in hell am I spending my time helping a scammer. They can rectify the situation on their own.

We give all the contact info we can but after that it's in their hands.

Anyways, there's no issues I can see about the original point so I'll go ahead and lock this.
 
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