Oregon College shooting

[SuF]

I didn't bother to read all the posts in this thread, but here's something I don't get as a Canadian:

If so many people in the US own guns and carry them around for protection, how come I never hear of these mass shootings ending with another civilian using their personal fire arm to either kill/wound the shooter? I understand a lot of these instances happen in places where the people being assaulted aren't exactly of the gun carrying demographic (i.e. the people at Sandy Hook, college students) or happen in these supposed "gun free zones", but still. What's the point of everyone owning guns for protection if no one is apparently using them for their intended purpose?

Very few people actually carry weapons for protection and there are people stopped by them. Here's a terrible source: http://controversialtimes.com/issue...hootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/

They don't come up in the news because its not really news worthy if 1 person gets wounded and the shooter gets shot and wounded too. Mass shooters also target gun free zones that it is illegal to carry weapons into. They do this so that no one other than the police is able to stop them legally.

 

[SuF]

You disagree but I believe there is a need for someone to own a weapon.

According to American Police Beat, the average response time for an emergency call is 10 minutes. Atlanta has the worst response time with 11 to 12 minutes and Nashville comes in at a lightning speed of 9 minutes.

The average interaction time between criminal and victim is 90 seconds:
That translates to you being robbed/ injured/ maimed/ raped/ murdered and waiting for an additional 2 and a half minutes for the police to arrive. The truth of the matter is that the police will almost always arrive AFTER the crime has happened and the criminal has gone.

A gun could save your life in this type of situation and that is enough for me to believe there is a need for someone to own a weapon.

Police in Detroit take an average of an hour to respond to a call and it has the highest violent crime rate in the nation. The strong gun laws they have are just making it more dangerous for people and likely leading to more deaths.

 

[SuF]

I think it's likely a rare occurrence when a person who requires police assistance, too requires an assault rifle. Do you genuinely believe the person robbing you deserves death as justice for their action on you? Or even assault? Raped/Murdered, fair enough.. However, how often is this?

I agree the gun could save your life. However, it will also take a life in doing so.

That's a false dichotomy. If people know others are armed the chance that they will do anything to them is significantly reduced. Simply brandishing a weapon will cause many people to stop whatever they are doing and with modern medicine gunshot wounds are not a death sentence and it is very possible that they would survive even if you did have to shoot them.

The same logic applies to home invasions. If people know they will be met with deadly force they will think twice before breaking in and trying to rape your wife.

 

Could have been prevented if students were able to be armed on campus. It's mindblowingly stupid how people think that banning weapons will cause less violence.

Yeah it's only worked out in the entirety of the rest of the developed world lol, your broken country is the only one like this

 

[SmokeHut]

That's a false dichotomy. If people know others are armed the chance that they will do anything to them is significantly reduced. Simply brandishing a weapon will cause many people to stop whatever they are doing and with modern medicine gunshot wounds are not a death sentence and it is very possible that they would survive even if you did have to shoot them.

Yeah? Perhaps this medicine should be used on the kids in these schools as well then, seeing how the gunshots aren't lethal?

You take a case like someone wanting to break into your home, they'll be put off by CCTV, alarms etc.. However, if everyone is armed, then that no longer becomes relevant. It becomes normalised, a resistance you'll encounter no matter what.

So the opposite end of the argument can be used. You want to burgle a house, yet to get a weapon you need to know the right people and have the right amount of money to invest for a weapon, as well as receiving it and remaining it hidden to carry out your task. However, you know the people in the house aren't armed, so do you really go to all that trouble to get a weapon to seriously outgun your target? No, quite simply.

What world do you guys live in where you're constantly in fear of people breaking in your house and doing damage to your partners vagina, or people wanting to kill your entire family..? Why can't someone just be breaking in to steal your tv? Let them take the tv for the benefit of being caught later and going through the proper justice system in place.

The same logic applies to home invasions. If people know they will be met with deadly force they will think twice before breaking in and trying to rape your wife.

No, not the case. If someone wants to rape your wife that badly, they'll pick a time when she is most vulnerable. Not a time when anyone is there to protect her, regardless of whether they're strapped with AKs..

 

[Laptop65]

Been another shooting at a Northern Arizona University... welp

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-dead-3-wounded-university-shooting-Ariz.html

 

[SuF]

Yeah? Perhaps this medicine should be used on the kids in these schools as well then, seeing how the gunshots aren't lethal?

You take a case like someone wanting to break into your home, they'll be put off by CCTV, alarms etc.. However, if everyone is armed, then that no longer becomes relevant. It becomes normalised, a resistance you'll encounter no matter what.

So the opposite end of the argument can be used. You want to burgle a house, yet to get a weapon you need to know the right people and have the right amount of money to invest for a weapon, as well as receiving it and remaining it hidden to carry out your task. However, you know the people in the house aren't armed, so do you really go to all that trouble to get a weapon to seriously outgun your target? No, quite simply.

What world do you guys live in where you're constantly in fear of people breaking in your house and doing damage to your partners vagina, or people wanting to kill your entire family..? Why can't someone just be breaking in to steal your tv? Let them take the tv for the benefit of being caught later and going through the proper justice system in place.

No, not the case. If someone wants to rape your wife that badly, they'll pick a time when she is most vulnerable. Not a time when anyone is there to protect her, regardless of whether they're strapped with AKs..

Most crime is not planned out in advance. Most crime is opportunistic so if they think they can get away with it they will. It is more likely that they will be put off from doing something if you are armed because that involves more risk and lot less of an opportunity.

Guns are also an equalizer. Women and generally smaller and weaker than men but if you give one a gun they are equals. Take a read of: https://imgur.com/gallery/giExlcJ

When you live in the highest crime city in the US and average police time is about an hour, you should go get a gun.

Watch this home invasion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EybxmPaSR6A (this is in South Africa)

Guns protect people. That's why VIPs are surrounded by them.

 

[Shall Skill]

Been another shooting at a Northern Arizona University... welp

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-dead-3-wounded-university-shooting-Ariz.html

Went to high school with Nick Prato. Was a buddy of mine - lets see what kind of punishment these kids get

 

[Xier0]

Been another shooting at a Northern Arizona University... welp

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-dead-3-wounded-university-shooting-Ariz.html

October 8th 2015 - Someone who was armed with a screwdriver stabbed 5 people. Then he got shot in the head by someone with a gun... welp

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...cted-terror-attack-in-central-Tel-Aviv-421314

BAN SCREWDRIVERS. STOP SCREWDRIVERS SPREES!

Dep.-Ch. Yehuda Dahan took his time in front of the press to emphasize what he said is the “high awareness of citizens and soldiers and people who carry weapons”, which he said in this case prevented a mass casualty event.

“We’re seeing incidents across Israel that are being stopped by police, military personnel, and also armed civilians who are able to stop attacks and prevent further harm. We are of course deploying in higher numbers than usual, but the alertness that civilians show is of great importance.”

 

October 8th 2015 - Someone who was armed with a screwdriver stabbed 5 people. Then he got shot in the head by someone with a gun... welp

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...cted-terror-attack-in-central-Tel-Aviv-421314

BAN SCREWDRIVERS. STOP SCREWDRIVERS SPREES!

Please add baseball bats and anything that could make fire as well.

6 dead: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/08/29/man-gets-life-in-prison-for-killing-6-people-over-xbox-dispute.html

198 killed and 147 injured:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegu_subway_fire

Also look at this Harvard Study: http://hotair.com/archives/2013/08/28/harvard-gun-study-concludes-gun-bans-dont-reduce-the-murder-rate/

 

> Shitloads of guns in circulation, millions unaccounted for and unlicensed/unregulated
> muhammendments.jpg
> Kids and mentally ill people have essentially unrestricted access to extremely lethal weapons (keep in mind it's actually pretty hard to stab someone to death, you really have to try, as where a bullet from a rifle to almost anywhere can kill you)
> Literally everywhere else in the developed world there are better gun laws and less crime
> Super easy for criminals to obtain unregulated weapons because there's so many
> Starting to affect other countries like Canada because of illegal gun trafficking due to HOW MANY FUCKING GUNS THERE ARE IN THE US
> Also pretty much only Americans who are pro-gun and just can't see why kids love the taste of cinnamon toast crunch
> Solution? Add more guns herp da derp derp

lol u guise

I'll just let you continue to have your mass-killings at schools every week, but no let's add more guns

 

October 8th 2015 - Someone who was armed with a screwdriver stabbed 5 people. Then he got shot in the head by someone with a gun... welp

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...cted-terror-attack-in-central-Tel-Aviv-421314

BAN SCREWDRIVERS. STOP SCREWDRIVERS SPREES!

Please add baseball bats and anything that could make fire as well.

6 dead: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/08/29/man-gets-life-in-prison-for-killing-6-people-over-xbox-dispute.html

198 killed and 147 injured:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daegu_subway_fire

Also look at this Harvard Study: http://hotair.com/archives/2013/08/28/harvard-gun-study-concludes-gun-bans-dont-reduce-the-murder-rate/

Blown out of proportion:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

Guns make up the large majority. Random acts that aren't common aren't exactly relevant lol.

I think a good portion of mass shootings can be prevented by a screening process that includes mental health. Does it invade personal privacy? To an extent that can be argued, but when it comes to selling a weapon that can kill people, I think that's a necessary precaution. Increased mental health facilities would also help.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/timeline-mental-health-america

 

Blown out of proportion:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

Guns make up the large majority. Random acts that aren't common aren't exactly relevant lol.

I think a good portion of mass shootings can be prevented by a screening process that includes mental health. Does it invade personal privacy? To an extent that can be argued, but when it comes to selling a weapon that can kill people, I think that's a necessary precaution. Increased mental health facilities would also help.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/timeline-mental-health-america

I was being sarcastic. Obviously guns are going to be the majority, as they are the most efficient.

However, looking at your link, it shows that gun killings are actually decreasing year to year. I've never seen the problem with them before and I certainly don't see the problem with them now.

Gun control making life safer is an illusion which actually does the opposite.

Until you can fix the need to kill others, killings will happen with whatever method available.

 

[SuF]

> Shitloads of guns in circulation, millions unaccounted for and unlicensed/unregulated
> muhammendments.jpg
> Kids and mentally ill people have essentially unrestricted access to extremely lethal weapons (keep in mind it's actually pretty hard to stab someone to death, you really have to try, as where a bullet from a rifle to almost anywhere can kill you)
> Literally everywhere else in the developed world there are better gun laws and less crime
> Super easy for criminals to obtain unregulated weapons because there's so many
> Starting to affect other countries like Canada because of illegal gun trafficking due to HOW MANY FUCKING GUNS THERE ARE IN THE US
> Also pretty much only Americans who are pro-gun and just can't see why kids love the taste of cinnamon toast crunch
> Solution? Add more guns herp da derp derp

lol u guise

I'll just let you continue to have your mass-killings at schools every week, but no let's add more guns

I would argue that our mass shooting problem has more to due with our cultural and social-economic problems rather than our gun problems. Most of the rest of the first world has much better government assistance programs and are generally also much more homogeneous societies.

 

[SmokeHut]

Most crime is not planned out in advance. Most crime is opportunistic so if they think they can get away with it they will. It is more likely that they will be put off from doing something if you are armed because that involves more risk and lot less of an opportunity.

Guns are also an equalizer. Women and generally smaller and weaker than men but if you give one a gun they are equals. Take a read of: https://imgur.com/gallery/giExlcJ

When you live in the highest crime city in the US and average police time is about an hour, you should go get a gun.

Watch this home invasion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EybxmPaSR6A (this is in South Africa)

Guns protect people. That's why VIPs are surrounded by them.

If it's opportunistic is means they've not considered the potential risks involved, it means they've been given an opportunity ( i,e a window left open, door unlocked ) and taken it. So if the people inside sleep with a revolver, then they'll find out the hard way, not something they've prepared for, so therefore not really reducing the crime. However, ending the crime prematurely. That is of course, if they're not armed themselves, because if they are, then you have a shootout in your house where it's very likely casualties are guaranteed, and not in your favor, likely.

However, this isn't my argument, my argument is the ease in which a person can attain a weapon for this purpose, or any other purpose.

I watched the video, and it's obvious I cannot disagree that the homeowners were able to control the situation because they had guns and the perpetrators didn't. However, would that video of ended so happily if both parties were armed? In the US, I imagine that would be a more likely scenario.

 

Until you can fix the need to kill others, killings will happen with whatever method available.

That's why I suggested the mental illness part. Trying to find the article, but there was one I read not so long ago that stated how mental illness hospitals have been decreasing in numbers, funding, and effectiveness in the past 20 years, and it ties gun violence to that. I'll edit it in once I find it.

 

[fragan77]

As bad as this is going to sound... people die everyday. Its a risk we've got to take while living.

 

As bad as this is going to sound... people die everyday. Its a risk we've got to take while living.

Lol tell that to the families of the people who gets shot up just because they're going to school. Bet you'd love to change your mind if this happened to a loved one of yours.

 

[Xier0]

> Shitloads of guns in circulation, millions unaccounted for and unlicensed/unregulated
> muhammendments.jpg
> Kids and mentally ill people have essentially unrestricted access to extremely lethal weapons (keep in mind it's actually pretty hard to stab someone to death, you really have to try, as where a bullet from a rifle to almost anywhere can kill you)
> Literally everywhere else in the developed world there are better gun laws and less crime
> Super easy for criminals to obtain unregulated weapons because there's so many
> Starting to affect other countries like Canada because of illegal gun trafficking due to HOW MANY FUCKING GUNS THERE ARE IN THE US
> Also pretty much only Americans who are pro-gun and just can't see why kids love the taste of cinnamon toast crunch
> Solution? Add more guns herp da derp derp

lol u guise

I'll just let you continue to have your mass-killings at schools every week, but no let's add more guns

Number of guns have no correlation with violent crime. However, banning of guns has always caused an increase in violent crime.

Lol tell that to the families of the people who gets shot up just because they're going to school. Bet you'd love to change your mind if this happened to a loved one of yours.

Appeal to emotion. Discarded.

 

[fragan77]

Lol tell that to the families of the people who gets shot up just because they're going to school. Bet you'd love to change your mind if this happened to a loved one of yours.

Of course. But there's a lot of unfortunate things that happen to the world. This is just one incident. I've lost 2 of my brothers when I was young, back to back years.

Sometimes in life, we just have to move on and enjoy the good that life does go on. Of course, there are things that the government can do to protect the society as much as they can but ultimately, humans are capable of killing other human beings because we are given of freedom of choice. There's nothing else we can do when a random person kills another random person for their own selfish reasons.