Oregon College shooting

https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073/#22785073

 

[Enemy]

I am happy I live in Canada, the gun laws here are much safer. The US needs to implement the same laws as Canada.

 

[Xier0]

Furthermore, I think you should maybe actually read the literal context of the second amendment, because (as Tmoe also pointed out above) it says nothing of individual rights of gun ownership. The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

(source)

Is this a troll? How more direct can the statement "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" get? It can't even get any more obvious.

 

[Se Rogue]

Is this a troll? How more direct can "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" can the statement get? It can't even get any more obvious.

Please don't try to instigate arguments without even reading my post.

 

[Xier0]

Please don't try to instigate arguments without even reading my post.

I quoted your post, specifically, the part where you said "Read the literal context of the second amendment". The context is, as posted above, unambiguous.

 

[Absolutius]

Shouldn't even allow the news to say his name on TV or anywhere else. That would stop the shootings. It's all for attention.

 

[Iion]

Pretty crazy, I went to a CC right near this about 3 years ago!

 

[Se Rogue]

I quoted your post, specifically, the part where you said "Read the literal context of the second amendment". The context is, as posted above, unambiguous.

I also posted the literal text of the amendment, not a quote from George Washington. Regardless, both are referring to groups of state militia defending against unconstitutional actions of the government. Not individuals. I'm not saying individuals have NO rights to gun ownership, but people tend to see the second amendment as meaning every single motherfucker living in a gated community deserves an AK47 because MUH CONSTITUTION.

 

[Xier0]

I also posted the literal text of the amendment, not a quote from George Washington.

The literal text of the amendment is what I was talking about. The GW quote was for context.

How more direct can the statement "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" get?

Regardless, both are referring to groups of state militia defending against unconstitutional actions of the government. Not individuals.

If you don't have individuals with guns, then there can be no group with guns because groups are made up of individuals. That's like saying one person doesn't have the right to freedom of speech, but a group of people do.

I'm not saying individuals have NO rights to gun ownership, but people tend to see the second amendment as meaning every single motherfucker living in a gated community deserves an AK47 because MUH CONSTITUTION.

Why can't everyone have an AK47? It works in Switzerland just fine. It works at gun shows and shooting ranges. Probably the only place it wouldn't work is at a mental hospital.

 

[kmjt]

If this is a real quote you have to keep in mind that this came from an era where mental health was not acknowledged. You honestly think it is a good idea to put a gun and ammunition in the hands of someone with schizophrenia or other mental disorders?

 

[Iion]

If this is a real quote you have to keep in mind that this came from an era where mental health was not acknowledged. You honestly think it is a good idea to put a gun and ammunition in the hands of someone with schizophrenia or other mental disorders?

I feel as though that's pretty extreme though. It's not about putting them in the hands of someone, but more or less the idea of arming those who believe they should be armed and passing minimal mental health tests and tests in order to prove they're at least somewhat competent.

 

[kmjt]

I feel as though that's pretty extreme though. It's not about putting them in the hands of someone, but more or less the idea of arming those who believe they should be armed and passing minimal mental health tests and tests in order to prove they're at least somewhat competent.

That quote implies that everyone deserves it though, as if its a right.

 

I found Obama's speech to bring across a strong message but the real question is what is he going to do about it? I've never been scared for my life going to school in Canada. The only people who own guns are the people that go out in the woods on the weekends and blast trees and deer. I'm not educated enough regarding U.S. gun laws to make a comparison but there seems to be a large difference.

 

[ASAPgang]

I know this is a comedian; but have a look at this he makes some valid points.

[YOUTUBE]awgs0burFTk[/YOUTUBE]

Link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awgs0burFTk

 

[Iion]

That quote implies that everyone deserves it though, as if its a right.

Yeah, I see that but I believe what he mean's is anyone competent. Obviously he wouldn't agree to slam guns in people in whoever's hands. What you're saying is that he mean's literally everyone, and we all know for a certain he wouldn't agree to put guns in the hands of people in prison.

 

[Se Rogue]

The literal text of the amendment is what I was talking about. The GW quote was for context.







If you don't have individuals with guns, then there can be no group with guns because groups are made up of individuals. That's like saying one person doesn't have the right to freedom of speech, but a group of people do.



Why can't everyone have an AK47? It works in Switzerland just fine. It works at gun shows and shooting ranges. Probably the only place it wouldn't work is at a mental hospital.

No, I'm saying exactly what Tmoe said: every John Smith in a quiet, wealthy neighborhood doesn't need a machine gun because there is a very low probability it will ever be used properly in self-defense, and thus is only creating opportunity for lethal misuse.

It works in Switzerland because Switzerland is not America, home of the psychologically fucked up and emotionally charged simpletons.

 

[tMoon]

I'm not sure what this Switzerland comparison is? The guns per capita in Switzerland (not including personal militia weaponry) is nearly a 3rd of the U.S., even including these guns, the gun ownership rate is hardly half of that of the U.S.

Also, any picture comparing the use of guns in a governmental protection setting (aka protecting a public figure that many people would like to kill), and a civilian who is hardly competent to use a pistol using it for "protection" are vastly different things.

I have helped teach NRA gun safety courses that is required for a concealed weapons permit in Virginia. You do not even have to fire a gun, you quite literally look at some information, learn to not keep your finger off the trigger, and to not point the gun at things that you do not want to shoot. The information is not at all complicated and is incredibly basic. Your average civilian is not all that knowledgeable when it comes to actual gun use (even after said "safety course.")

Also, saw a wonderful comparison today. Over 80 preschool aged children were killed via accidental deaths via guns in 2014, this is in contrast to the 27 cops that were killed via gun.

 

[Iion]

I'm not sure what this Switzerland comparison is? The guns per capita in Switzerland (not including personal militia weaponry) is nearly a 3rd of the U.S., even including these guns, the gun ownership rate is hardly half of that of the U.S.

Also, any picture comparing the use of guns in a governmental protection setting (aka protecting a public figure that many people would like to kill), and a civilian who is hardly competent to use a pistol using it for "protection" are vastly different things.

I have helped teach NRA gun safety courses that is required for a concealed weapons permit in Virginia. You do not even have to fire a gun, you quite literally look at some information, learn to not keep your finger off the trigger, and to not point the gun at things that you do not want to shoot. The information is not at all complicated and is incredibly basic. Your average civilian is not all that knowledgeable when it comes to actual gun use (even after said "safety course.")

Also, saw a wonderful comparison today. Over 80 preschool aged children were killed via accidental deaths via guns in 2014, this is in contrast to the 27 cops that were killed via gun.

Thanks for the post,

I think the information you gave us on gun safety is surprising. You would think they would require proper shooting, but maybe they don't because they don't expect you to ever have to fire? I feel as though ownership of a gun is simply a mental "safety" thing but that is just me.

~Lion

 

[Se Rogue]

https://archive.moe/r9k/thread/22785073/#22785073

It's really sad seeing all the responses just egging the guy on. /r9k/ is literally one of the most toxic places on the internet, which is saying a lot. Not to say that anyone posting in that thread could have said anything to stop him, because I'm sure he had already made up his mind long before posting that thread, but none of those fuckers helped at all. What an absolute shame.

 

Sounds like you've been listening to bull-shit NRA rhetoric. There is already in excess of 340 millions guns in the U.S., guns literally out number every individual in the U.S. If more guns were a solution to the American problem of mass shootings, the problem would be solved.

No, gun free zones don't discourage someone who is going to murder people from walking in with a gun. Why would it? That individual is literally on their way to kill other people.

The problem (well, part of it) is that guns are WAY to easy to get in the U.S. There are numerous flaws in the background system and the mental health system as a whole; furthermore, there is no real reason your John Smith living in a suburb needs an assault rifle. People like guns, so be it, but don't use this bullshit argument that guns save lives. If you have a gun in your house, you are more likely to use it on yourself then somebody else; furthermore, guns are correlated with increased homicide rates, turning a non-deadly encounter into one.

A majority of these shooters are getting their weapons legally, they are cheap, available, and are given out with very little restriction. Restricting access to guns does work, examples can be found both abroad and domestically. States with better gun control have less gun violence, that kind of just how it goes.

I'm not advocating that guns are evil, or down with all firearms, but there needs to be a sensible discussion and implementation of gun policy. I am absolutely sick of continually monitoring doors and my surroundings as I sit in my classes. I know what I'll do if there's a shooter and frankly that's sad, I should not be worried that I am going to get shot and potentially killed while sitting in Political Theory.

Note: I am aware correlation does not equal causation, but correlations can help you glean a little bit of information. Also, I'm not just making baseless assertions, if you do not believe anything I have stated, feel free to look it up, I don't feel the need to go digging around for information I already know.



The American population as a whole is pretty clueless when it comes to politics, the constitution, and laws in general. Not to be a debby-downer, but the constitution (specifically the bill of rights, constitution is rather irrelevant regarding this) has lost its' weight. Practically every one of the first 10 amendments has been trampled on, hello Patriot Act (among other things).

The U.S. prison and Judicial system is a shit-show and the main reason the U.S. is the largest jailed is because we have an archaic policy centered around drugs alongside the wonderful system of posting bail that the lower class often cannot afford to do (so they end up sitting in jail for weeks, months, years, waiting for their "speedy" trial.)

I agree with the majority of your statement sir. I personally like guns. I wish i didnt have a short temper and fuck it attitude. I cant own a fire arm because im stupid enough to use it. I also live in Florida were we have the stand your ground law. If i owned a gun i can guarantee i'd shoot someone. SO knowing i have a fuck it attitude i dont own one. I also avoid parties, bars and large gatherings for the most part. I cant afford anymore charges or a argument escalating into a fist fight, which could possibly turn into a shooting. It really is that easy now a days to get shot over stupid shit. Last year i got cut off and almost killed while driving down U.S 19. At the next light i jumped out of my vehicle and attempted to engage the red haired fucking ginger in the piece of shit cutlass who cut me off. Punch'd his window a few times, called him a pussy and tried getting him to exit his vehicle. All he did was pull a 380 im guessing and point it at me. I put my hands up and said you got it buddy and walked back to my car. Hell at the age of 16 i had been in 3 situations were pistols were pulled on me or my friends. It's one of the main reasons i stopped drinking at a early age.