OMMs of 2014

[Heeatz]

my idea for omm requirment:

-1k vouches
-svu
-5 trades for anything up to $50*.
-5 trades for anything between $50 and $100*.
-10 trades for anything at or over $100*.
-3 trades for anything at or over $200*.
-1 trade for anything at or over $350*.

higher trade reqs will make people just give up.

999 bond trades and a couple mm's nothanks m8.

I think its hard enough to get OMM as it is, goodluck finding a $550 MM these days.
I like the idea of SVU requirement however.

 

[Johnsonman]

Doesn't really matter lol If someone puts enough effort into sythe and gains 1k vouches he/she wont scam.

Not really. If someone gets 1k vouches from selling bonds (trusted with 8m at a time). Then is given mm where he/she could be trusted with 5b+ at a time, I could see a scam happen quite easily.

 

Anyone have any suggestions for the OMM app/system that they think would help?

- Drop the $550 trade
- Must have 2FA

By that standard won_gold, and other chinese companys could become OMM instantly.

implying that there isn't a voting process

 

Doesn't really matter lol If someone puts enough effort into sythe and gains 1k vouches he/she wont scam.

There were pin sellers who had accumulated 1000+ vouches from selling pins (30-40m eoc) that scammed 1b, 1000 Vouches itself really doesn't mean anything, someone could sell 1000 bonds in their shop, or get 1000 defenders/torsos, at the end of the day quality means more than quantity.

 

[Superfluous]

- Drop the $550 trade

I feel like the struggle to find such large trades makes it worth it in a way, but yeah, I see that a lot of people get hung up over this one. I remember fcpl0x did a whole bunch of large gold sales and like five people got their $550+ trades in one night, but apart from that, they're much rarer.

 

[Dave]

@jack one of the requirements for someone who becomes an OMM is that they must have 2fa. It's similar to the staff "contract" there's a new set of OMM rules and requirements that I inplemented when I got promoted.

As for the changing of the application, I'm open to ideas but I have no intention of lowering the overall intensity of the application process. In my eyes being an OMM acts as the highest possible symbol of trust. If people are discouraged because of a long process or even being denied once then personally i don't even know if they deserve the rank. Some (including myself) spent 2 years attempting to become and OMM and that in my eyes shows the determination that will keep a user from scamming in the future.

If the app was going to be changed to remove the $550 trade I'd have the full desire and intent to make it 3 $200+ and 3 $350+ trades

 

Something has to change with it however, there's been a sheer drop off in the amount of trades MM's are actually being offered yet there's still the same amount of people trying to MM. A large decline in supply but the demand has remained static. I know personally I don't even bother to bump my MMing thread because MMing in the first place is such a chore, you are literally giving up your free time to help some unknowns conduct a trade when, generally speaking, they're either idiots or rude or slow to respond etc. For me trying to gain OMM is the only thing that would make it worth while and many others have voiced similar opinions in this thread however in my brief time trying to MM again after having already been through the rigorous process once, I've accepted that with the current standards it isn't going to happen. Technically speaking it should be easier for me to get high trades now that I am a moderator as opposed to being a regular member the first time but it just isn't the case. You can't alter the supply of trades for people to MM, you can't force new users into the market, You can't control the GP conversion rates etc but you can control the requirements for the apps.

The way the system is now is discouraging. The requirements are so steep ($550 being 1650m RSGP). That just doesn't happen outside of large gold sellers nowadays. I've heard many talk about giving money to a trusted friend and having them do the transaction using themselves as the middleman in an effort to complete this gigantic trade. At the end of the day middlemanning for a close IRL friend is pretty different to MMing for a complete stranger, there's actually consequences for you in the real world if you scam which you have to think about meaning that this trade isn't really indicative of much at all. I wonder how many have actually gone through with this, an impossible thing to prove however but I disgress. The thing I think you're forgetting is that completing an app isn't the end all decision to whether a user will receive the coveted rank however. You can always deny them a numerous amounts of times if you do not deem them trusted. Something has to budge.

 

[Dave]

My problem isn't with changing the application - I'm happy to change the application but I don't want to make it exponentially easier. If the issue is finding a $550 trade, then why not turn that into 2 $350+ trades (so it's 3 total)

Do you still think the same issue would be present?

 

My problem isn't with changing the application - I'm happy to change the application but I don't want to make it exponentially easier. If the issue is finding a $550 trade, then why not turn that into 2 $350+ trades (so it's 3 total)

Do you still think the same issue would be present?

Yes I do.

Looking at the users who MM on the regular majority of them haven't even achieved a $350 and only one or two $200 such as Slashz, Darkest Dream, Harleigh, Bartonsvodka.

Many also have simply not bothered to update their app, likely a combination of realizing it being futile/being lazy. For example Delaghetto who is a verified middleman over at powerbot has only filled out 1 trade despite having a respectable thread just short of 400 replies. Chloecat has a thread with nearly 700 replies yet has barely touched her app.

Also there are several users who actively offer MMing who don't actually have an app thread. Perhaps that's also due to them seeing it as impossible, although that's speculative.

 

[Superfluous]

Fwiw, I found actually filling the app to be something of a chore (took like 3 hrs of formatting), but only because I didn't do it bit by bit. If you're set on trying to finish the app, it's almost always possible to fill it out while the people you're MMing for are taking forever (which is inevitably the case) during each trade. I still think the problem is lack of incentive, not the difficulty of the application; people will be more interested in finishing the app if something about having it becomes more appealing. As to what that is, I'm relatively stumped. I don't see OMMs getting more business than trusted, non-OMM traders, and I don't anticipate a rush of people willing to pay 20% fees to someone if they get OMM. It may just be an antiquated idea.

 

With the saturation of middlemen, you can go a year without getting a $550 trade. I remember when there would be 5-10 users always looking for middlemen, now it's a ghost town in that forum. The rank itself is the only reason to go for it. You can charge fees, but 4/5 times users will look for free middlemen over OMM's that charge you. Then you have prestigious OMM's that would be chosen over you even if you do acquire the rank. I really despise providing MM services because it's too much of a hassle, and then there is always the possibility of you being responsible for a simple mistake.

 

[Winters]

decline in rs?

 

[FireZ]

Take a look at my OMM App - very clean and ddint take that long to prepare, assuming you save the pics with trade #'s etc to distinguish them easily. Anyone who doesnt want to put in the effort doesnt deserve the rank.

The # of trades has gone down and theres many more trusted users now. Back when I first started (2010) a $100 donor was a sight to see. When I got to $100 donar, I think there was less then 30 of us if not less then 20. Market giants werent hardly common either.

RSPS Trades are quick and easy. gold > paypal usually. Account trades suck and the last one I did was for $2100. It took almost 90 minutes but that trade was worth the hassle. I cant stand account sales and want nothing to do with them like most other mm's.

I cant remember who but I think myself and 1 other OMM were the first to begin to offer free OMM services. So I cant say I exactly helped the cause.

 

[PlayerAuctions]

] As to what that is, I'm relatively stumped. I don't see OMMs getting more business than trusted, non-OMM traders, and I don't anticipate a rush of people willing to pay 20% fees to someone if they get OMM. It may just be an antiquated idea.

People really pay OMM's 20% ?

There's no demand for OMMs or MMs in general because there are no new users in the market. There are the gold titans who don't need MMs, and vader/scammers. MMs don't prevent chargebacks or account recoveries, if it weren't for the 07/eoc swapping market, there would be even a fraction of the current MM usage.

MM's don't prevent chargebacks? I thought one purpose of an MM was to protect the seller against payment fraud...

Help me if I'm misunderstanding.

Part of the application is a user showing that they know what they're doing.

Risk Management/Fraud prevention is a science & a form of art. Anything involving money, and it's potential loss is not for the faint of heart, and a rigorous screening process is both fair and wise. In an industry which seeks greater legitimacy (RMT/gaming secondary markets), it's better for us to be "safe" than "sorry".

I've not looked at the application myself, but if you wanted a pair of experienced eyes, happy to be used as a resource if needed.

The decline of RuneScape definitely affects the amount of trades that go through on this forum.

I've heard a lot of people mention the decline of RS markets, but trends seem to be reversed at PA where we've actually seen trading volume and tnx value increase...

I'm doing research for an article which I'll release to Sythe in February regarding the total market size for RS (you guys may find this very interesting). But given the fact that there are more than a few who speak of RS market decline, it may be prudent to speak to some of the large sellers to get some feedback on our initial findings.

 

[Xier0]

MM's don't prevent chargebacks? I thought one purpose of an MM was to protect the seller against payment fraud...

Help me if I'm misunderstanding.

Exactly. MMs serve no purpose at the moment. In short, anyone who isn't a trusted user trying to sell gold on Sythe with Paypal through a non-goldshop user is forced to gamble on a chargeback risk, or use your site to protect themselves at a fee cost.

 

Some people have raised some very valid criticisms regarding the current OMM process. I'd be in support of removing the $550 trade but adding two $350+. It's a risk calculation because OMMs typically handle larger amounts during their careers.

 

I think that the difficulty of getting a $550 trade is beneficial towards the process of becoming an OMM. It took me nearly 5 months of middlemanning on Sythe to acquire a trade that large. It requires them to bump their thread every day multiple times and become a better middleman themselves before they can be trusted with that amount. A lot of middlemen think they can turn down all the smaller/medium trades and still find clients needing large trades, it comes down to the fact that many people aren't willing to work hard to complete their application, which is a good indicator that they aren't ready to become an omm.

 

Some people have raised some very valid criticisms regarding the current OMM process. I'd be in support of removing the $550 trade but adding two $350+. It's a risk calculation because OMMs typically handle larger amounts during their careers.

It may be counter productive adding two $350 in lieu of a single $550 as trades of these volume just don't appear anymore for reasons already given.

 

[Superfluous]

@ PA - Nah, no one gets 20% since there are so many people doing it for free.

@ Xier0 - I agree.

It may just be an antiquated idea.

I don't think we should change the app, I just think it's not worth worrying about at this point. There's no real incentive to get the rank atm.... it's probably easier to get mod than OMM simply because mods are still relevant and people care about being part of that select, and useful, team.

 

[Xier0]

I don't think we should change the app, I just think it's not worth worrying about at this point. There's no real incentive to get the rank atm.... it's probably easier to get mod than OMM simply because mods are still relevant and people care about being part of that select, and useful, team.

That being said, the mod and OMM ranks virtually go hand in hand, any user who qualifies for one likely qualifies for both, or at least makes the other much easier to obtain.

Also, I don't recall this being mentioned before, I get the feeling that there are currently too many OMMs and they are all inactive? The prestige behind the rank really is just fulfillment of expectancy theory backed up with harsh requirements. If people don't feel that the rank is coveted enough by those who have it, and the requirements are painstaking, there isn't much incentive to try.