Official Middleman Application Process

[Niini]

Also, for those of you saying that a $300/400(ish) trade is too much for a normal MM. What makes this person any different than an OMM with THE SAME AMOUNT OF EXPERIENCE, TRUST, AND VOUCHES? At this point, the ONLY difference is a simple title. If you're going to let that sway your vote, then honestly you need to reconsider your trading practices.

Omm's have been endorsed by moderators, its not the title so much as the trust and approval from the most trusted members of the market which it represents.

 

[Snow Patrol]

1. The more complicated the application, the less we will get very, very trusted applicants who have an easy time MMing because of their large amount of trust.

2. If these people discover that the OMM application takes a large deal of time that may cut into their other business profits, then they will be far less likely to go for OMM.

The point of having OMM's is to make the marketplace a more safe and sound environment. Regardless of how much time one spends on their OMM application, if they're trusted enough to trade with large amounts of Money/GP, then having them instated as an OMM shouldn't be a problem.

-The more OMM's there are, the easier it will be to come into contact with one
-With more competition between OMM's, the cheaper fee's will become.
-The cheaper the fee's, the more willing traders will be to use an OMM.
-With more traders using OMM's, the marketplace will indefinitely be a more safe and secure place.

Sure, OMM's won't make as much money, but OMM's shouldn't be in it just for the money aspect, the gratification of knowing that another successful trade was finished with your assistance should also be factored in.

Reading through posts made by some of the current OMM's is starting to make me think that they're only in it for the money, rank, and jursidiction, and want to cut out other potential competition. It's actually quite disappointing.

3. The current application was created long before free trade came out, and before free trade, the only real way to get a $200 trade was with an account trade, and that took a long time to find. Now that you can freely trade GP between accounts, getting large trades is easy as pie due to all the RSGP sales going on around here.

It's actually a lot harder than it seems. Most of the huge gold trades are done through the most trusted members, i.e. Viou, Video, Grave, KMJT, h1, Punker, Busta, etc. These members have no problem getting people to go first to them in trades in excess of $1,000. However, the users that do request a MM very rarely allow the use of someone who doesn't hold the rank. I myself have had people turn down my suggestion of using Farcast/Wulfspade1 as MM's, simply because they don't hold the rank, regardless of the fact that they are of mod status.

4. By creating a harder application to meet the current market prices, and having it be difficult enough to possibly turn off very trusted people who were doing it for the rank or a symbol of power, we will only have the most devoted and determined applicants.

Devoted and Determined? Take a look at the current list of OMM's, if you refer to my earlier post, you'll notice that over a third of them don't even offer their services anymore, and half of the ones that do offer their services, don't do so for the "everyday trades" and for the betterment of the Sythe marketplace, but rather just to make money.

Of the current OMM's, It's very very easy to weed out which ones are more community oriented, and which ones are in it simply for the money. Like I stated earlier, the main reason the OMM rank is even here is so the marketplace can be a safer place. However from the looks of things, it seems as if some of them are exploiting their rank for their own personal gain.

5. The rank of Official MiddleMan is very prestigious, and should be given out to those who are put through a strenuous application process to prove trust and dedication.

I agree that the OMM rank is, and should continue to be prestigious, but does middlemanning more trades really prove one's trust level and dedication? Video is a perfect example; did him finishing the OMM app suddenly make everyone realize that he was trustworthy? Of course not. Everyone involved in the voting process already knew that he was trustworthy, and only time will tell how dedicated he is to the job.

This theoretically ought to knock off undevoted applicants, resulting in better MMs, and ridding of members who have an easier time getting OMM so they can scam in the future.

If you want better OMM's, then start with the current team, as previously stated, over a third of them are inactive, and the some of the current OMM's don't even offer services for everyday trades, (I think it's safe to say that most trades that occur on Sythe fit in the "Below 50$" category)

 

[ScammersAreDumb]

I believe it is fine as it is, even though n4n0 said not to post that. Especially with the value of gp being readjusted, it really isn't easy to complete an OMM app. People seem to think that just because there are floods of people applying, the requirements are too easy. That couldn't be further from the truth. 95% of apps die off rather quickly. Very few actually make it all the way through. I ask people who think it is too easy this one question: If it's so easy, why don't we have a bountiful number of OMMs? The reason we don't is because it still is hard to get the requirements, and than harder yet is to actually get approved after that.

By raising the requirements you're going to make the OMM rank literally a staff only rank, because they will be the only ones who can actually satisfy the requirements. Except for a handful of members that are already well established and trusted, and staff members, no one else will even have a shot at OMM.

 

[Greg]

If you want to fundamentally make the application system much harder than before, it would only be reasonable to demote the entire OMM team and make them reapply, as they would not have reached the standards through there applications of those of the "very, very trusted applicants".

Why would we do that when we have already completed the application, which was difficult it's day, we need to make the current application difficult in today day and age.

This is a bad thing. We want MORE active OMMs.

You have got to be shitting me, every single OMM is complaining about not getting any service whatsoever.

I did 18/25 applications in around a month of not-ridiculously active MMing. I completed all the top tiers (all 100+ with many excess, even had a $550 trade). Also, I would argue with what I have noticed to be increasingly declining demand in the RS market, there will be LESS MM opportunity now then before free trade.

To me you basically just told me that it is possible to get a huge trade... but you did it when it was really hard to do....

Please explain to me how someone not so "very trusted" could complete the application today and then pass a global lounge supermajority? I've certainly never seen it happen.

If r2pleasent wanted to MM, he could clearly get all the trades in a day or two, and pass the global vote easily, as could a group of other super market fags.

I've never seen an applicant who deserved it more than the people who have gotten it since free trade came out.

Are you judging their deserving with their trust or their eager to become an OMM

A scammer will be searching to pursue one of 2 paths.
1. (rare case) Gain enough trust so they can pull of a huge scam. In this case, they will complete any size OMM application.
2. (common case)

So you are saying that an easier application is as appealing to a scammer than a harder one?

At the point of 1 Billion GP or more, buyers usually go first to sellers (like me) or insist on an OMM. I can tell you this from much bulk GP-buying experience.

I guess that is where the challenge of the whole application comes in right? It took me ages and ages to find a high level trade back a while ago....

I would argue that with the fact no one uses paypal anymore, combined with a decrease in the market volume, it is just as hard to get OMM now than before free trade.

I highly disagree with you, for the following reasons:

A. Larger trades in general are happening far more frequently than they were before free trade.
B. Just because people don't use paypal doesn't mean the need for OMMs is disapearing....


My final point would be this:
The previous application, before free trade turned off many such as Skele, HeavenLord, and a handful of other global moderators. Do you think this was because they weren't trusted enough? NO! It was because they realized that OMM was a lot of work, and that they didn't have what it takes to go through with it.

 

[Nunchuck]

I like 5 >$50
10 $50-100
10 100-200
10 200-350
5 $350+

 

[Snow Patrol]

Why would we do that when we have already completed the application, which was difficult it's day, we need to make the current application difficult in today day and age.

to quote Myself:

there have only been 4 new OMM's instated in the past 5 months (Pokemoners, N4n0, Video, RsProd). On the other end of the spectrum, there were only 2 denied [new] OMM Applications (Dorianking, Sneaky82), and 3 more retries denied (3x Fatality)

So in the past 5 months, there were only 5 New OMM Apps (3 Accepted, 2 Denied) and 4 Ten trade retry OMM Apps (1 Accepted, 3 Denied). Also, in the past 6 months, 2 (Feren, Viet, & Possibly a third in Louis) OMM's have been banned.

Since February (New Application Guidelines) there have been only 5 new OMM apps, how much harder does the application need to get?

You have got to be shitting me, every single OMM is complaining about not getting any service whatsoever.

Than lower your fee's, I get 2-3 requests to MM every single time I bump my topic, and have monitored over 35 trades since creating my MM topic.

If r2pleasent wanted to MM, he could clearly get all the trades in a day or two, and pass the global vote easily, as could a group of other super market fags.

Exactly, and that's a good thing. If he proves his dedication and continue to MM, why is it bad that another OMM be instated?

So you are saying that an easier application is as appealing to a scammer than a harder one?

It's relatively easy to spot a scammer. And I trust that the current team involved in the voting process can spot one a mile away as well.

A. Larger trades in general are happening far more frequently than they were before free trade.
B. Just because people don't use paypal doesn't mean the need for OMMs is disapearing....

Just because high value trades are happening, doesn't mean MM's are monitoring the trades. Most are done without an OMM, and the ones that require the use of an MM, are monitored by an OMM.

 

[Greg]

to quote Myself:


Since February (New Application Guidelines) there have been only 5 new OMM apps, how much harder does the application need to get?



Than lower your fee's, I get 2-3 requests to MM every single time I bump my topic, and have monitored over 35 trades since creating my MM topic.



Exactly, and that's a good thing. If he proves his dedication and continue to MM, why is it bad that another OMM be instated?



It's relatively easy to spot a scammer. And I trust that the current team involved in the voting process can spot one a mile away as well.




Just because high value trades are happening, doesn't mean MM's are monitoring the trades. Most are done without an OMM, and the ones that require the use of an MM, are monitored by an OMM.

I'm seriously mindfucked from your other suggestion thread.... and I see no use even talking to you....

 

[Rsaccounttrader]

Why would we do that when we have already completed the application, which was difficult it's day, we need to make the current application difficult in today day and age.

The application isn't about difficulty, it's about level of trust. All you have to do is look at the purpose of the format of the application (demonstrated very well by Sin666 on her posts on the MM help thread) to see that the OMM app process is focused on how much MMs handle before they deserve the OMM rank. As the new application would mean the amount required to be handled would be raised, the old OMMs would have to restart the application process to prove themselves worthy of OMM as defined by the new application (as they completed an "eaiser" app, as per the purpose of the app).

You have got to be shitting me, every single OMM is complaining about not getting any service whatsoever.

This reveals this suggestion has self-motivation. There are times when an OMM isnt on, therefore, we dont have enough OMMs. The purpose of the OMMs is not for them to make money, it's for trading on the site to be more secure.

If r2pleasent wanted to MM, he could clearly get all the trades in a day or two, and pass the global vote easily, as could a group of other super market fags.

Not relevant to my main argument, but a safe MM is always double checking things and being careful. An MM shouldnt take less than 30 minutes. With that being said, added to the small amount of people who want an MM, R2P would probably not be able to complete his application within a few weeks even if he dedicated 10 hours a day. It's a matter of supply and demand.


Are you judging their deserving with their trust or their eager to become an OMM

So you are saying that an easier application is as appealing to a scammer than a harder one?

I'm saying it doesn't make a big difference. So far, with the "easy" application, no one has become an OMM to scam.

B. Just because people don't use paypal doesn't mean the need for OMMs is disapearing....

It means the RS market is getting smaller, which means the need for OMMs is reduced.

The previous application, before free trade turned off many such as Skele, HeavenLord, and a handful of other global moderators. Do you think this was because they weren't trusted enough? NO! It was because they realized that OMM was a lot of work, and that they didn't have what it takes to go through with it.

So let's correct our old mistakes, not keep them going because a few oldfags were punished by them. We don't want an application that turns away almost everyone in its difficulty (as a 40 MM application would).

 

[Greg]

So let's correct our old mistakes, not keep them going because a few oldfags were punished by them. We don't want an application that turns away almost everyone in its difficulty (as a 40 MM application would).

I'm tired as fuck, and my mind is spinning out of control do to snow plow, so I will respond to the rest of you tomorrow.

 

[mill3n]

I think it'd be a good first step to wipe away the inactive OMMs. That would basically clear your annoyances; there'd be more room for new ones.

You guys (the OMMs) don't seem to realize how hard it is to get any MM done without 'that little rank that means nothing'.

If a new application process is made, I too suggest every OMM fairly does the entire process over, solely to experience again what MMing is like without the rank. In that case, OMM fees could rise again, because previous OMMs would be retested. The competition with other normal MMs will make you guys a bit more appreciative for the fees you're asking.

I think this suggestion is driven by greed, which is a bit sad IMO.

 

[Niini]

With the way that the poll is set up once all the trades have been completed are so many trades needed in the first place? Just do away with either the trades or the vote. As I see it the whole process is a circle jerk anyway- look at the last few accepted applications, moderators ex-moderators and $400+ donors

 

[Jeff]

5 >$50
10 $50-100
10 100-200
5 200-300
3 $300+

Sounds good.

I would suggest maybe a conversion into RSGP, for people who unfortunately have only had the chance of dealing with RSGP trades, for example $0.50 per mill?

Therefore:

5 > 100M
10 > 100M-200M
10 > 200M-400M
5 > 400M-600M
3 > 600M+

With the way that the poll is set up once all the trades have been completed are so many trades needed in the first place? Just do away with either the trades or the vote. As I see it the whole process is a circle jerk anyway- look at the last few accepted applications, moderators ex-moderators and $400+ donors

Which is the whole point of this thread, to see what other suggested requirements the community can come up with so that Sythe.org members can potentially consider 'anyone' as being a trusted user, not just high donators and staff/ex-staff members.

 

[n4n0]

Sounds good.

I would suggest maybe a conversion into RSGP, for people who unfortunately have only had the chance of dealing with RSGP trades, for example $0.50 per mill?

Therefore:

5 > 100M
10 > 100M-200M
10 > 200M-400M
5 > 400M-600M
3 > 600M+

It's the same standard. RSGP is already calculated as .50/m, so if you MM 600m, it's considered a $300 trade.

 

[Jeff]

It's the same standard. RSGP is already calculated as .50/m, so if you MM 600m, it's considered a $300 trade.

Okay, sounds good.

I was just about to edit my other post before anyone had the chance of viewing/replying to it, however I'll suggest it now.

Would there ever be a chance of a 'trial-OMM' or something to those extent?

Of course a requirements must be went-through, except they would be trusted with smaller trades perhaps, or something along those lines.

However that is simply a small suggestion, but could turn into something much more.

 

[JohnK]

I agree with others that the higher values may be a little too high. Would this new, more rigorous application mean a higher chance of getting accepted in comparison with the current application?

 

[Verts]

I agree with others that the higher values may be a little too high. Would this new, more rigorous application mean a higher chance of getting accepted in comparison with the current application?

The staff lounge vote wouldn't change... which is why I personally see no point in changing the application process.

 

[Pokerking88]

The staff lounge vote wouldn't change... which is why I personally see no point in changing the application process.

I agree with this. If the candidate isn't worthy of OMM, he/she would just get denied with the vote anyway, correct?

 

[Punjabi3]

I don't think it should be changed since the final vote is still up to the staff and not entirely based on the completion of the OMM application.

I don't see anything wrong with the current amounts to be honest

10 trades for anything up to $50*.
10 trades for anything between $50 and $100*.
3 trades for anything at or over $100*.
2 trades for anything over $200*.

I've middlemanned a few trades and I think the most valued trade of mine was about 80mil (around $40 or so). Its still difficult and raising the bar
wouldn't make any difference to the highly vouched such as tijn and R2.

The time lapse is also going to be larger since it could take months if not years, the trading habits of a member can be questionable from the beginning to the end.

Take G unot for an example he finished his application in a couple of months and to be honest he middlemanned well over the requirement and finished his application but still ended up scamming. His trading habits were normal in the beginning and soon turned fishy before he scammed.

Short Version: current application is fine since it is still in the hands of staff to decide.

 

[n4n0]

Although I previously stated that the app WILL be changed, after reading and considering everyone's input, I've decided to think this over further before making any decisions. Thread locked for now.

To those that supported and even to those who didn't, thank you for the criticism be it good or bad.