Occupy Wall Street

[Rsaccounttrader]

A protest rose on Wall Street, in lower Manhattan, that has now spread across the US protesting against Wall Street banks, executives, and "the 1% who hold 50%". What are you're opinions on these protestors. I'll share mine after I hear a few.

 

[kill dank]

I think it's fantastic and inspiring to see American's coming together all over the country in their own versions of Occupy Wall St.

I will be going to Occupy Chicago tomorrow. I was going to go today but I didn't think there were that many people there.. Come to find out Jessie Jackson came and made a "speech" for about 300 people. Numbers in Chicago are expected to be over 3000 this weekend due to the anniversary of the war. I can only imagine what it's like in NY.

The people protesting have my full support.

 

[Stakingfool]

The protesters have my full support. The power and wealth in America needs to shift from the power elites and the few surrounded by the president to average Americans. These power elites dictate elections with their deep pockets. They manipulating politicians and representatives with the electoral college into speaking for them and not the American people. Who rules America the elites or average Americans?

 

[Phantom866]

From what I understand, their idea of social equality is Marxist. I feel sorry for their situation, but I don't support them. This isn't the way America is going to fix their problems.

 

[kill dank]

From what I understand, their idea of social equality is Marxist. I feel sorry for their situation, but I don't support them. This isn't the way America is going to fix their problems.

Then how?

We have no power to make anything change.

Is someone going around with a pen and paper saying "what don't you like about the government?" "How can we help you?" "What do you want to see changed?"

No. What else would you suggest?

 

[Rsaccounttrader]

Alright, here's my opinion.
Why are you protesting against the banks themselves? If you bother to think about it, bankers are just very hard working people who subscribe to the ideas of capitalism, just as you do. If you disagree with certain lack of regulations, I could see you wanting to protest against the government, but I don't see how protesting against the banks is doing anything... If you were in their position, wouldn't you also try to make money (just as you do today).

Secondly, the motives for the protests are completely ill-defined. I too find it unfair that 1% of the population has much of the wealth, but capitalism has proven to be, over time, the best possible economic system for everyone. If the protestors drafted a new type of economic system, or maybe additional economic policies that the government could add, then it would be a good thing for them to protest, but not against the banks...

I think it's fantastic and inspiring to see American's coming together all over the country in their own versions of Occupy Wall St.

I will be going to Occupy Chicago tomorrow. I was going to go today but I didn't think there were that many people there.. Come to find out Jessie Jackson came and made a "speech" for about 300 people. Numbers in Chicago are expected to be over 3000 this weekend due to the anniversary of the war. I can only imagine what it's like in NY.

The people protesting have my full support.

Please explain why. What do you have against bankers or rich people? Surely you know some rich people that are just as fine human beings as yourself. If you had the chance to earn a million dollars a year because you had worked really hard through school and life, wouldn't you accept it? I can see how the system is unfair and I can see how you want change, but then please work on political philosophy for changing the economic system; I would fully support a movement behind a political philosophy I thought would work better, be more fair, maintain more equality but keep as much freedom as the one we have now. Unfortunately, the best minds of 2000 years haven't been able to create one better than our current version of capitalism. Blaming the people you're jealous of for coming out on top in our current system isn't going to get you anywhere.

 

[Mr impossible]

Alright, here's my opinion.
Why are you protesting against the banks themselves? If you bother to think about it, bankers are just very hard working people who subscribe to the ideas of capitalism, just as you do. If you disagree with certain lack of regulations, I could see you wanting to protest against the government, but I don't see how protesting against the banks is doing anything... If you were in their position, wouldn't you also try to make money (just as you do today).

Secondly, the motives for the protests are completely ill-defined. I too find it unfair that 1% of the population has much of the wealth, but capitalism has proven to be, over time, the best possible economic system for everyone. If the protestors drafted a new type of economic system, or maybe additional economic policies that the government could add, then it would be a good thing for them to protest, but not against the banks...

1st of all, it is the banks who created all this mess, The US government does not have power at all anymore, the banks brought the government, so did the corporations. This is not capitalism, it is not a fair, free market anymore because banks and corporations can have unfair monopoly on other businesses, this is corportists not capitalism.

Occupy Wallstreet wants capitalism to exist, they don't want it to be perverted by huge companies and banks. Corportists means when corporations and the banks own the government, this is what he become. In some ways it is bad as communism. This is what Occupy Wallstreet is fighting for, regulation the banks from ripping of the US taxpayers and corporations should buy off our government unfairly. The mainstream media is against Occupy Wallstreet because they're part of the Wall Street bubble. The Occupy Wallstreet movement isn't against the rich or capitalism. It's against the corruption of our government and the banks controlling everything.

 

[Rsaccounttrader]

1st of all, it is the banks who created all this mess

This is the most overused and incorrect argument in America right now, because people won't take responsibility for their own actions. It was the advertising industry who created this sense of consumer capitalism, back in the 50s. It was the consumers who bought more than they could chew off. It was the consumers who took bigger housing loans than they could possibly afford if housing prices didn't change, let alone if they went down. All the commercial banks did was make loans (yes, risky loans, but without those risky loans you might not have as nice a house) to push the American economy forward. The banks then took the loans, bundled them up, put values on them, and traded them around. When the housing bubble broke, the banks, who had previously valued the loans at say, 70cents on the dollar, realized they were then worth 20cents on the dollar, and lost money. How did the banks create this mess again? I would say the entirety of America and its culture created the mess...

The US government does not have power at all anymore, the banks brought the government, so did the corporations. This is not capitalism, it is not a fair, free market anymore because banks and corporations can have unfair monopoly on other businesses, this is corportists not capitalism.

Occupy Wallstreet wants capitalism to exist, they don't want it to be perverted by huge companies and banks. Corportists means when corporations and the banks own the government, this is what he become. In some ways it is bad as communism. This is what Occupy Wallstreet is fighting for, regulation the banks from ripping of the US taxpayers and corporations should buy off our government unfairly. The mainstream media is against Occupy Wallstreet because they're part of the Wall Street bubble. The Occupy Wallstreet movement isn't against the rich or capitalism. It's against the corruption of our government and the banks controlling everything.

I can tell you from experience on both sides that the banks don't have even close to the power you think they do. We do have a system of capitalism, and it isn't fair, but no economic system ever has ever been fair. The banks did not "buy" the government. Many of the banks and the people who work there are liberal democrats, yet our US foreign policy, 1/2 of the government's job, is a policy that is dictated by the military and military industrial complex for the most part, both very conservative elements. In terms of domestic policy, please name specific example of how the banks "run" the government.

I understand your concern. but not your position. How are the banks ripping off US taxpayers? Why are you protesting against the banks, and not the government for reform? Are the banks breaking the law? If so, why not press charges?

 

[Mr impossible]

The banks gave out those loans to people, so they could just make quick fast money, by going the CEOs bonuses, knowing later that they will be bailed by the American Tax payers. They've paid the government for amnesty so they won't get in trouble or go to jail for fraud. Some banks have foreclosed houses without proper documentation, this is a fact. They created the housing bubble and they caused the housing crash, how can they not be responsible for the Recession. You're either ignorant of the facts, or just don't know them.

 

[Rsaccounttrader]

The banks gave out those loans to people, so they could just make quick fast money, by going the CEOs bonuses, knowing later that they will be bailed by the American Tax payers. They've paid the government for amnesty so they won't get in trouble or go to jail for fraud. Some banks have foreclosed houses without proper documentation, this is a fact. They created the housing bubble and they caused the housing crash, how can they not be responsible for the Recession. You're either ignorant of the facts, or just don't know them.

The banks are businesses trying to make a profit. They offered loans (we can call them gambles) to people so they could maximize their profit and so they could pay their employees more (as all companies do.) The Americans who accepted the loans also were taking a gamble on the market. Both sides lost when the market crashed; banks almost collapsed and many people lost their houses. The government then made an independant (and correct) decision to make loans to the banks. Both the banks and the people created the housing bubble, and both are responsible for the recession.

Here's a fact the occupy wall street protestors forgot to tell you. The banks, commercial and investment, have collectively paid back their loans and some to the government. The American taxpayer MADE money off thr loans to the banks.

You're also blatantly wrong about one fact: the banks in no way paid off the government to avoid the law. Proof or gtfo.

 

[kill dank]

The banks are businesses trying to make a profit. They offered loans (we can call them gambles) to people so they could maximize their profit and so they could pay their employees more (as all companies do.) The Americans who accepted the loans also were taking a gamble on the market. Both sides lost when the market crashed; banks almost collapsed and many people lost their houses. The government then made an independant (and correct) decision to make loans to the banks. Both the banks and the people created the housing bubble, and both are responsible for the recession.

The banks started loaning money they didn't have. Is that my fault or theirs?

You're also blatantly wrong about one fact: the banks in no way paid off the government to avoid the law. Proof or gtfo.

They don't need to. The government and the corporate goons are in the same boat.

Please explain why. What do you have against bankers or rich people? Surely you know some rich people that are just as fine human beings as yourself. If you had the chance to earn a million dollars a year because you had worked really hard through school and life, wouldn't you accept it? I can see how the system is unfair and I can see how you want change, but then please work on political philosophy for changing the economic system; I would fully support a movement behind a political philosophy I thought would work better, be more fair, maintain more equality but keep as much freedom as the one we have now. Unfortunately, the best minds of 2000 years haven't been able to create one better than our current version of capitalism. Blaming the people you're jealous of for coming out on top in our current system isn't going to get you anywhere.

I have nothing against anyone personally. I do not agree with the decisions that have been made. This country is supposed to be a democracy, but the majority aren't the ones getting the say in anything. Our representatives represent their best interest, not the best interest of those they are supposed to be representing.

Everybody in this country has the opportunity to go to school and work hard to make MILLIONS of dollars. But these people aren't going about it like that. They're going behind our backs and making BILLIONS while everybody else and the economy suffers. Now tell me a job that your average Joe can get into that will make him 10 figures.

Of course, as you said, it would be better to have a political philosophy for everyone to stand by. But the thing is, as soon as you start getting specific about demands and the things you want changed, disagreement is inevitable. Disagreement will lead to disbandment. The purpose of these protests is for people to come together and try to be the change they want to see in this country. This won't happen overnight. There's still plenty of time to come up with the specifics. Right now is time for gathering strength in numbers to show them that this isn't just a group of hippies trying to get the government to pay off their debt (even if it would help.)

It's not that people haven't been able to come up with a decent political system, it's that the people in charge of doing so have become corrupt. "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." -- John Dalberg

As far as your last statement, I don't see why they're not to blame. Surely not everyone is bad, but when the people in charge have the opportunity to change things to benefit the rest of society but don't in favor of their own personal gain, that's wrong. I see no reason to blame anybody BUT those on top, or, as you put it, the people I (and probably everyone else who wants just a bit more money or say in their leadership) am jealous of.

 

[Rsaccounttrader]

The banks started loaning money they didn't have. Is that my fault or theirs?

It's a calculated risk that any business can take. People also bought houses that they couldn't afford. As I said before, the system and attitudes are to blame.

They don't need to. The government and the corporate goons are in the same boat.

Completely incorrect. Please use evidence. Names like "corporate goons" evolve from pure jealousy.

Everybody in this country has the opportunity to go to school and work hard to make MILLIONS of dollars. But these people aren't going about it like that. They're going behind our backs and making BILLIONS while everybody else and the economy suffers. Now tell me a job that your average Joe can get into that will make him 10 figures.

Life isn't fair, and no working economic philosophy makes life fair. The part I disagree with you on this is the "going behind our backs". How at all are they doing that? Again: demonization due to jealousy.

Of course, as you said, it would be better to have a political philosophy for everyone to stand by. But the thing is, as soon as you start getting specific about demands and the things you want changed, disagreement is inevitable. Disagreement will lead to disbandment. The purpose of these protests is for people to come together and try to be the change they want to see in this country. This won't happen overnight. There's still plenty of time to come up with the specifics. Right now is time for gathering strength in numbers to show them that this isn't just a group of hippies trying to get the government to pay off their debt (even if it would help.)

Alright, I give tacit approval to this then. But please, protest against the government. If you think a banker or company broke the law, press charges or put pressure on your congressman for a congressional investigation. Call you representatives and senators. But don't protest against the businessmen doing their jobs.

It's not that people haven't been able to come up with a decent political system, it's that the people in charge of doing so have become corrupt. "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." -- John Dalberg

Of course power corrupts, but there actually has been no ideal political system created (we live in arguably the best system now).

As far as your last statement, I don't see why they're not to blame. Surely not everyone is bad, but when the people in charge have the opportunity to change things to benefit the rest of society but don't in favor of their own personal gain, that's wrong. I see no reason to blame anybody BUT those on top, or, as you put it, the people I (and probably everyone else who wants just a bit more money or say in their leadership) am jealous of.

Blame the politicians, who work for you, but not the businessmen doing their jobs (to make as much money as possible for their shareholders).

 

[Bubba Fuzz]

Honestly I doubt they are going to accomplish very much these riots. It's just a waste of time that could be spent better else where. Sorry to be a pessimist but this isn't worth their time, there will always be really rich people and your middle class. And honestly there isn't much they can do to "Stop" it.

 

[blazinfasstt]

i see this as being the little rocks that foreshadow the impending rockslide that will be americas collapse.

they need another war to galvanize their people into a collective fighting force again, they need another cold war

 

[kill dank]

It's a calculated risk that any business can take. People also bought houses that they couldn't afford. As I said before, the system and attitudes are to blame.

But who wrote the system? If houses weren't so expensive, people wouldn't have to pay them off for 70% of their lives. If the economy wasn't so poor right now, houses wouldn't be expensive. Why is the economy so poor? Because you have people with billions investing their money and driving up the prices. Just like in Runescape only on a much larger scale.

Completely incorrect. Please use evidence. Names like "corporate goons" evolve from pure jealousy.

Instead of asking for proof, can you find a counter example? The thing is, people always ask for names when defying someones opinion or facts regarding this topic. If I knew, I'd tell you. But it's not like the people are very public about what they're doing and who they are. I guess by corporate goons I mean people who are knowingly investing their money, even though they have more than enough, in places that are causing harm to the economy and taxpayers.

Life isn't fair, and no working economic philosophy makes life fair. The part I disagree with you on this is the "going behind our backs". How at all are they doing that? Again: demonization due to jealousy.

By behind out backs, I don't mean literally. Do you read every sentence of every bill passed in this country? Of course not. They use this to their advantage and leave loopholes open for themselves. So I suppose everyone has the chance to read the typically 20 page+ bills, but they don't and everyone knows it.

Alright, I give tacit approval to this then. But please, protest against the government. If you think a banker or company broke the law, press charges or put pressure on your congressman for a congressional investigation. Call you representatives and senators. But don't protest against the businessmen doing their jobs.

It's not against the businessmen and women, it's generally about the exceeding amount of input they have in the government's decisions. And have you ever tried to call a representative or senator? Good luck actually talking to one. Even if you do get through it's not like they'll take you seriously. You're a nobody to them. But if you have money that you can invest in their interests or to help them, be ready to top on their to-do list.

Of course power corrupts, but there actually has been no ideal political system created (we live in arguably the best system now).

Arguably, but I do agree.

Blame the politicians, who work for you, but not the businessmen doing their jobs (to make as much money as possible for their shareholders).

[/QUOTE]
If the politicians work for us, why can't we fire them? Because the system is corrupt. If they work for us, why did they bail out our debtee's instead of us? Sure, banks had debt, but only because they borrowed our money, loaned out more of it than we had given them, then when we all ask for it back they don't have enough because they never did to begin with. And who controls the banks? The upper level businessmen and bankers. Why businessmen? Because they're some of the largest investors in banking. Yes, they're just trying to make money for themselves and their company, but isn't everybody? $1 billion is more than enough to support yourself and family for the rest of your lives, but it's never enough for them. At some point, morals have to take over so they can realize that they're hurting the economy and in turn hurting the rest of the taxpayers. But they haven't, so what are we to do?

Honestly I doubt they are going to accomplish very much these riots. It's just a waste of time that could be spent better else where. Sorry to be a pessimist but this isn't worth their time, there will always be really rich people and your middle class. And honestly there isn't much they can do to "Stop" it.

It's not a riot, it's a protest. Time spent doing what? Further perpetuating the poor economy by working minimum wage jobs and spending our money on overpriced necessities? Further allowing the decline of our government by sitting around doing nothing? There have been numerous claims that within the next few years there won't even be a middle class in this country because of the huge difference in wealth distribution. And if there isn't much we can do to stop it, how do you explain the two successful protests so far in other countries? How can more than 100,000 people worldwide, so far, go unnoticed? They can't be. It's all over the news. More and more people are following this movement every day and as I said above we're gaining support numerous large groups of people. We can only be ignored for so long. You can't arrest 10,000 people and there's more people against the what the government has been doing than for it. We just need more of them to come out.

 

[.eNaCiRRuH]

There's a debate coming up here in Florida that our Sociology teacher offered to give extra credit if we attended and actually put in our two cents. Seems like our sociology teacher is trying to change the world. I actually support it because I'm doing a research paper on stratification which is pretty much about how the top 1% has 34.6% of America's net worth. Crazy to think about it like that. I also read that the bottom 90% owns only around like 30% of it? Or something along that line, I can't remember the number.

 

[l2botbroski]

First off, the banks and the government are the ones to blame, it's not just americans. Getting a loan became so much easier that it was before. Then were lending out money left and right, creating an artificial intelligence. The housing market became like a bubble that was getting larger and larger, well finally it bursted and here we are today. Then during the Bush Administration, corruption began to come into factor. During the Clinton Administration was when this whole thing was in its initial phases.

Actually, there is proof there is alot of corruption. The Secretaries of Treasury during this whole ordeal were former Goldman Sachs CEO's (Henry Paulson, Robert Rubin). I wonder who recieved $800 Billion of TAXPAYERS money to bail them out, oh wait, GOLDMAN SACHS and many other banks. The funny thing is, nothing was specified on how the money was intended to be used. Raises for CEO's and company executives as well as $50 million jets were purchased with taxpayers money. That piece of legislation was so hastily passed, no one really knew what they were voting for, or so they say at least.

Funny you saying there isn't corruption. A former worker of CountryWide who assigned to cater to "special clients, aka FOA's". FOA = Friends of Angelo, Angelo Mozilo, the CEO of Countrywide. These "friends" recieved low interest rates, and many other perks, if they even paid back the money. These friends included Senator Christopher Dodd, chairman of Sente Banking Committee, who endorsed the Housing Rescue Bill, benefiting the Mortgage Companies. Friends included many other government officials including Chairman of the Senate budget Committee Kent Conrad. These guys in congress recieved millions of dollars, and I guess are easily bought. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countrywide_financial_political_loan_scandal and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelo_Mozilo#.22Friends_of_Angelo_.28FOA.29.22_VIP_program

If you watch "Capitalism: A Love Story" you will really get some insight on how our government really runs. It's sickening and disgusting. Even a Congresswomen (name slips my mind at the moment) says pointing to capital hill, "the people in there don't even run the government." I hope that gave you a little insight on what really goes on. Hell, these companies made BILLIONS and Government Officials made MILLIONS of dollars. That is just too unfair, especially when they get bailed out for no reason without any justification for it. Where is everyone else's bail out? (Small businesses, good people that were laid off, etc.)

I also now recall there was a statement from CitiBank to one of it's largest investors saying some really nasty things that are completely dishonest concerning the current financial climate, etc, that was leaked. It's in the movie, and I don't recall exactly what it said.

 

[pie4muh]

the people in these riots are pissing and shitting on police cars and having sex in the streets, when you ask them what they are protesting most of the time they can't tell you the problem is that we have all these people who think that they have right to things like education/health care and they don't realize it is a privilege that has to be worked for. if you have something you want to protest thats fine but be civil about it.

 

[Charlieb1212]

Everyone is freaking greedy.

If they're going to protest they need to sell their iPhones, sell their MacBooks, sell their Ralph Lauren clothes and donate it to people poorer than them. There's always someone poorer, so by their logic, they should be helping anyone who's in need if they have unnecessary items. They're just as guilty as the 1% who have worked insanely hard for their money.

After all, this just comes back to investment bankers who work ~80 hour weeks and deserve to be filthy rich.

EDIT - L2BotBroski - the people should have known what they were getting themselves into with adjustable rate mortgages, they've screwed themselves into this situation.

 

[kill dank]

Everyone is freaking greedy.

If they're going to protest they need to sell their iPhones, sell their MacBooks, sell their Ralph Lauren clothes and donate it to people poorer than them. There's always someone poorer, so by their logic, they should be helping anyone who's in need if they have unnecessary items. They're just as guilty as the 1% who have worked insanely hard for their money.

After all, this just comes back to investment bankers who work ~80 hour weeks and deserve to be filthy rich.

EDIT - L2BotBroski - the people should have known what they were getting themselves into with adjustable rate mortgages, they've screwed themselves into this situation.

I'm protesting, and have actually been to a couple so far. I don't have expensive clothes or iPhones and stuff, just a really nice Asus laptop which is basically the only expensive thing I own next to my car.

And people can't help but need loans. You can't get a house or car without them so how are they to avoid it?