Occupy Wall Street

Look, I've been down to Occupy movements in boston and NYC, and it isn't just college kids. This isn't directly about rescuing the poor etc. its about ending corporate greed and fiscal inequality. There are people of all different ages, colors, creeds, socio-economic brackets, genders, sexualities and species (at least when James Carville attends).

Have you been down to the protests? Have you marched on wall street? These people are committed to the cause. There is currently a mass disinformation campaign orchestrated by the right to discredit the occupy wall street movement. And yes, people have macbooks. Yes, they have cell phones. So? Whats the point? Do they have to be dirt poor and penniless to protest? If they were all homeless, you'd just say this is a a movement trying to take advantage of government programs.


These I-Bankers make millions, but are taxed at ridiculously low rates. Bigs banks are given preferential treatment by the gov't, and allowed to borrow hundreds of billions from the fed without interest.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/budg...less-taxes-than-many-in-middle-class-20111013


Good article^^^^^

 

Housing prices are driven by the free, capitalistic market; supply and demand. You surely can't blame the banks for that. And no, the economy is not doing poorly because people with billions drove up housing prices. People from all tax brackets drove up the prices by having a joint sense of confidence in the future of the real estate market. As I said before, pure, simplistic supply and demand.

Conter-example: In the United States, you are innocent until proven guilty. Bring me proof that these "goons" who have worked just as hard for each cent of their money as you have are breaking the law and I'll listen.

Again, examples or gtfo. Congress does not equal the banks.

Well you and everyone else in the movement is protesting against the "greed" of the "banking goons", so yes, it is about the businessmen. If you want to make it about the government, it should be called Occupy Capitol Hill

We can and do fire them; it's called elections. The banks were "bailed out", aka loaned money at interest, in order to protect your wealth, the wealth of the nation, and arguably national security. If all the banks were allowed to collectively fail, you would lose everything in your bank account. The government would be in debt trillions more due laws ensuring all bank accounts, and our country would be in a shitstorm. Riots would erupt, the United States as a government may have disappeared. Which situation would you prefer?

Fuck no, $1 billion isn't enough for someone who wants $2 billion. As said in the movie Wall Street, "Greed is good". Capitalism is driven by greed. A millionaire deserves to make a dollar just as much as you deserve to make one in a capitalistic system. How are morals supposed to take over; are you actually going to blame the bankers for "hoarding" the money? I support the government implementing socialist systems to help redistribute the wealth, but asking millionaires to feel the urge to spread their hard earned money around out of "morality" is completely absurd. If you had a billion dollars, I sincerely doubt you would give it all but $37,000 (avg amount of money an American has) away. Under capitalism, it's moral to keep the money. If you don't like the system, you should join a local communist group or found your own political philosophy.

Each and every one of your points has been moot so far. You have not given me a single reason why these bankers, honest, intelligent, and hard working men and women, should be protested against for acting as they should in a capitalistic system. I will be heading down to Occupy Wall Street headquarters tomorrow with a friend to question why people are there. I bet half of them don't even know TARP was a loan with interest.


A final point to all reading: Everyone is saying "why bail out the banks but not us". Well, there are two reasons. The first is that the banks are cornerstones of our country that if allowed to fail could cause the demise of this nation (I'm being literal). The second is that the government can trust the banks much more than it can individuals. You might not like how they trust these "greedy goons", but you yourself do. What would you rather do, give a $1000 to a random person to hold for you or give it to a bank?

I have no problem with calling for reforms in systems that need reform, but people need to get a grip on reality. America is a capitalistic country. Greed is good. You are as greedy as they are. They got lucky, worked harder, or just by events made more green than you did. If you can think of a better system, go for it. If not, suck it up. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

If you think the banks and people with money don't have a major say in our government, you are sadly mistaken.

And if you think that's true, you have too much confidence in people.

 

What do you think about this view?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wtHTh6NZXc

I think the reasons mentioned are the reasons most people are out protesting, not because they hate bankers for being hard working overachievers.

 

The only reason I'm not sobbing hysterically as I read through this thread is because I realize that most of the posters are still in middle or high school... I hope all of you eventually grow up and realize that owning a lot of money is not a bad thing.

 

They do, because we live in a society where corporations are very powerful due to the amount of people they employ. They are the reason we are arguably the greatest country in the world. If you think they have too much power in specific areas, come up with a way to fix that situation and protest against congress to act, not against the bankers.

I know for a fact that the average banker works harder, is more intelligent, and is just ass ethical as the average american citizen. I know this from much experience around; you've probably never met someone who works on Wall Street in your life. Again, provide examples or stop complaining.

Sure, but protest against the government to make campaign reforms. Don't protest against the guys who are acting with the same mindset as everyone else is in our capitalistic system.

 

I could not agree with this post more.

 

Well, I don't disagree with people protesting against vast differences between rich and poor, but there has not been any political philosophy demonstrating a better system than the one we have today (in a broad sense).

 

I find the entire protest (and the Marxists that fuel it) laughable. The rich 1% that they martyrize are necessary for our economy's circulation and growth.

 

I agree, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be calling for reform. I would personally like to see major campaign finance reform to prevent the massive influence of corporations on the government. That being said, protesting against the bankers is honestly just hating on people who have happened to make more than you have.

 

So why is EVERYBODY complaining about being broke? We basically support the wealthy and don't even have enough money to live comfortably.

Do you enjoy living in a country that has to rely on banking and loans to get by on a global level?
Why do we owe so much fucking money to other countries?

You can argue that the system is the best one so far or that this is how it's supposed to work, but the fact is that your average american is getting shot in the foot by his own country and those who run it.


I'll admit, politics is not my strong point, but if you don't see a problem in the way this country is being run then that's pure ignorance.

 

Not everyone is broke, and most of those who are are people who haven't put their all into "succeeding" in life or who overextended their personal finances (got greedy).

America is the 10th richest country per capita and the richest large country per capita. I guess you could look at the system as the lesser of many evils, but if you don't have a better idea to bring to the table we're going to stick with it.

 

Because they're envious of the financial standing of others. Human nature.

Also, you do realize that not EVERYBODY is complaining. They call themselves the 99%, but that represents their annual income bracket, not the amount of people participating in the protest.

Absolutely. You do know that they're attacking banks and big business, right? Why do you think that is? They should be criticizing the man who allowed our flawed tax system to wreak havoc for years, Obama.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't misquote me, seeing as I never said that. There are indeed many things wrong with the way this country is currently being run. You (along with many others) are grossly misinformed about the entire protest, and I think that's the scary part. People don't even know that they're criticizing the wrong people...

 

Lol I could care less, but denying corruption, etc, is ridiculous. I don't necessarily agree with the protesters, but they do have some right to be mad. The government allowed all of this too happen, and the bankers obviously knew what they were doing. They created an artificial demand for houses that many couldn't afford. Both sides are to blame.

 

They're envious because the difference is so enormous between the regular people and the people who are on top. I'm sure you've heard people say that within ten years there won't even be a middle class in this country. That's a problem. The people who make as much as your average American hardly and won't even make enough to be considered middle class.

It has been flawed since the early 1900's and probably before that. The leaders now are the ones dealing with the problem now that it's bigger. But they don't deal with it, they make it worse or push the problem aside.

And it wasn't a misquote, but I'm sorry if you took it that way. It's a general statement to anyone who doesn't see a problem with this country. It's not that I'm misinformed, it's that nothing else has worked. I could send a sack full of letters to my senators and congressmen but nothing will happen. So in everyone's mind, the last resort is to protest. I'm not protesting to support their beliefs. I'm protesting to support mine. I do support the protesters though as they are finally standing up against the injustices. Who are the right people to criticize? From being out there and talking with people, most of them aren't criticizing anyone in particular. They don't like the president, they don't like what the bankers are doing, they don't like the decisions that our leaders make, they don't like the lack of higher paying jobs, they don't like the state of the economy, along with a whole other mess of things. It's to the point where the only thing they can actually do that will make a big deal out of the situation is to stand up and do what they're doing because nothing else works.

If we're that wealthy, where does our 14trillion in debt come from?
The only thing we produce is tanks and weapons. If that's where our all our money is, then it's in the wrong place.

It seems as if you're saying it's okay to be greedy when in actuality that's the problem.

If shit wasn't so expensive, people could afford it without loans.
If the interest rates weren't so high (which I see as a main problem), people wouldn't have to pay loans off for their whole life.
If people didn't have to pay off loans for their whole life, they could put more of their hard-earned money back into the economy and boost the economy instead of into the bankers pockets who turn around and loan it out again.
And who makes the interest rate? Those that give out loans.

Sure everybody wants money, but doing it like this is wrong.

I don't have a better idea, and I'm in no position to create one. Even if I did, it wouldn't matter because it couldn't be implemented.

 

Everyone is greedy. Greed is good. This is capitalism. Too much greed can get dangerous, and should be limited by government regulation.

The people buying houses they couldn't afford were being just as if not more greedy. The American attitude is to blame, not the banks.

There is no "moral" tax system; it is purely subjective. If you want certain brackets to get taxed more, protest against the government, not the people who you think are getting a lucky break.

You're right, but that doesn't affect my ability to debate this topic any more than not having as much money as you want affects your ability to debate this topic. If you're against our system, complain to the government, not the people succeeding in it.

Then complain against the government.

Because he lives in the middle of nowhere and there are business tax rules (he doesnt have a legitimate income, all his money goes to his company). If you think the rules are unfair, protest against the government, not the bankers.

 

To an extent it's good. And the government does a shit job at regulating it.

Why, because they needed a place to live? Houses are so expensive they don't really have much of another choice other than to live in a shitty apartment or be homeless.

 

Bullshit. The mortgage crisis was because people took out too big mortgages on houses that they couldn't normally afford. If you only earn a "shitty" amount of money, you have to live in a "shitty" apartment; it's a fact of life.

 

When the only thing people can get to start is a minimum wage job, how do you expect them not to make a shitty amount of money?

And who do you know that can afford a house up front? Not many people unless they're older and have been paying shit off for years. If everyone only bought a house they could afford, they're would be so many more homeless people. If the banks understood this, maybe they wouldn't bullshit everyone..



The only way normal people can get a house is through a bank. They have no choice. How is that any of their faults? Houses are expensive.

It goes back to this

If shit wasn't so expensive, people could afford it without loans. (or mortgages)
If the interest rates weren't so high (which I see as a main problem), people wouldn't have to pay loans off for their whole life.
If people didn't have to pay off loans for their whole life, they could put more of their hard-earned money back into the economy and boost the economy instead of into the bankers pockets who turn around and loan it out again.
And who makes the interest rate? Those that give out loans.

If people had more money to put into the economy, companies wouldn't have to raise their prices to make profit off the sales they actually do make.
If companies didn't have to raise prices to make profit, things would be less expensive for your average consumer.
If things were less expensive, people would have more money to put into the economy and MAYBE could buy a house without taking out a huge loan or mortgage they'll have to pay for the rest of their life.

 

I agree with some of what you say here, but you complained before about banks causing the mortgage crisis. If you wanted the banks not to make such risky loans, people would, as you say, live in shittier homes or be homeless.