Merit-Based Pay

I got this topic from PFD's December topic...

Do you think school systems should pay teachers using merit-based pay?

To expand... Merit-based pay is paying teachers at a variable rate based on the class test scores and the growth before and after a teacher starts "teaching'.

I'll post my answer later.

 

[dam prayer noobs]

Well what about teachers who teach AP classes where the kids get A's and the teachers who teach lower classes where the kids actually fail. And wouldn't that entice the teachers to change test scores?

 

[THE LAP]

think its a bad idea. unless its a small percentage (<5%)

reasons being
- the $$ it costs to implement and monitor could probobably be spent more effectiverly elsewhere
- what if the teacher has a shit class (this definetly happens)
- alot of incentive based pay gets manipulated (very creativerly)
- descrimination against idiots.
- you change performance evaluation you have to change alot of other things that go with it (organisation architecture: rewards, decision rights etc)

I think incentive pay is a good thing, however what little knowledge i have of it (1 uni subject) showed that it can realy fuck things up (even in a single company). imagine across a few thousand schools.

 

Well what about teachers who teach AP classes where the kids get A's and the teachers who teach lower classes where the kids actually fail. And wouldn't that entice the teachers to change test scores?

I think people are smart enough to see that flaw.

Better phrasing: Standarized, norm-referenced, testing.

And even if they changed test scores, it'd be harder to impossible. With better pay with better scores, monitoring and accountablity will be boostened to avoid fraud.

In addition, there must be a national curve for different teachers that teach at different levels to avoid this injustice.

 

[dam prayer noobs]

I think people are smart enough to see that flaw.

Better phrasing: Standarized, norm-referenced, testing.

And even if they changed test scores, it'd be harder to impossible. With better pay with better scores, monitoring and accountablity will be boostened to avoid fraud.

In addition, there must be a national curve for different teachers that teach at different levels to avoid this injustice.

I have a better idea:

Why don't we just privatize the whole fucking system, the teachers would get paid shit tons more than what the government pays them now and they would be able to get fired if they are doing a shitty job.

 

[SuF]

Grades and scores mean nothing. They are more influenced by effort rather than teaching.

 

[Angelmax]

I have a better idea:

Why don't we just privatize the whole fucking system, the teachers would get paid shit tons more than what the government pays them now and they would be able to get fired if they are doing a shitty job.

Obviously the whole system can't be privatised, even at the fees most schools charge they're not profitable to run at all.

 

[Schnell]

I imagine a scenario where the good teachers, being paid more and automatically in a position to choose, would teach good classes. Meanwhile, shitty teachers would be stuck in shitty classes. This means that the kids who really need good teachers would not get them, which is bad.

 

[Zulwarn]

I think that teachers deserve the right to go on a merit-based as well as a normally based pay depending on how well they teach the students.

 

Also, merit-based pay encourages corruption.

When this is implemented, said teacher can essentially write their own paycheck by grading the class accordingly.

It could be easily done. Simply take a portion of the class, and curve their scores downwards at the beginning of the year. Then later into the year, curve that same portion's scores the opposite way - upward.

Corruption on a educational, world-wide scale.

 

[Rejection]

This would be unfair, some teachers are left with stupid children who think they are amazing, have no intellect and live on selling drinks bought from Quality Save for $0.59 then selling them for $1. If teachers who teacher lets say "Learning Support Areas" of School then they would make hardly any money if the kids mess around, which would be basing the teachers pay on some childrens behaviour. Would anyone here like to base their work pay on how a group of dunce children behave and act?

 

[Angelmax]

This would be unfair, some teachers are left with stupid children who think they are amazing, have no intellect and live on selling drinks bought from Quality Save for 59p then selling them for £1. If teachers who teacher lets say "Learning Support Areas" of School then they would make hardly any money if the kids mess around, which would be basing the teachers pay on some childrens behaviour. Would anyone here like to base their work pay on how a group of dunce children behave and act?

What if the teachers weren't paid for producing the best students, but rather it was judged on improvement in marks over time?

 

[Surround Sound]

What if the teachers weren't paid for producing the best students, but rather it was judged on improvement in marks over time?

If you had an A class, then it would be hard to implement this. Top students stay at the top, they can't IMPROVE on being #1. If someone gains a place, someone else has to drop a place.

 

[Angelmax]

If you had an A class, then it would be hard to implement this. Top students stay at the top, they can't IMPROVE on being #1. If someone gains a place, someone else has to drop a place.

I agree with you really, I'm just playing the devil's advocate. However, there should be some kind of system to incentivise teaching difficult classes.

 

[Rejection]

What if the teachers weren't paid for producing the best students, but rather it was judged on improvement in marks over time?

This wouldn't work either because, as I said before, they mess around and they won't improve with marks. The teacher will still be earning terrible wage and he can't do anything about it because of the children messing about. Bring back corporal punishment!

 

This wouldn't work either because, as I said before, they mess around and they won't improve with marks. The teacher will still be earning terrible wage and he can't do anything about it because of the children messing about. Bring back corporal punishment!

You have to also consider that some students are already at the top and that there isn't always room for improvement.

 

[tiger9110]

Wouldn't encourage teachers to be easier/harder on their students? Though it just an idea I doubt something like this would ever go into effect.

However this doesn't mean teachers don't do stuff like this already :s

 

Wouldn't encourage teachers to be easier/harder on their students? Though it just an idea I doubt something like this would ever go into effect.

However this doesn't mean teachers don't do stuff like this already :s

It actually has been implemented in some communities of the U.S.

However, it wouldn't necessarily mean they would go harder/easier. It would just make them spend more time off the curriculum and spend more time focusing on the standardized testing material.

 

[Billetes]

Saying that kids that mess around will never get anywhere is biased. I used to give a fuck all about school, but now I do pretty good. I went from a 35 percent average in english to a 75 in just 2 months.

 

Saying that kids that mess around will never get anywhere is biased. I used to give a fuck all about school, but now I do pretty good. I went from a 35 percent average in english to a 75 in just 2 months.

It's not about that. Merit-base pay is paying teachers based on the improvements and test scores of their students. It doesn't really bias students, but the teachers.