Make the community a better place...

[SuF]

People are getting banned too easily for things that others are not for. The system isn't very fair and everyone is treated differently. The staff refuses to let most people have a second chance, even if what they did was years ago. Many of these people get banned and all that comes from it is badness for everyone in the community.

Removing members from the community hurts it, even if "we don't want them here". Everyone has done bad things in their past, but people change. Who you were a few years ago is not who you are today.

Take this case: http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?p=6973192#post6973192

He admitted to phishing in the past and got banned. He has changed and no longer does that. He is not any more danger to the community than anyone else, yet he still gets punished for it? He didn't know the rules of Sythe back then, nor did he know he would ever go to Sythe. Its very unfair for him to be banned for that.

I will acknowledge that every case like this is different and the staff must make a decision about it, but they do a pretty terrible job. Take Syed's case. (I'l try to do this without leaking). He was banned, then let off the hook, then banned again, then told his ban was reduced to a temp ban, then told it was back to a perm ban, then he was unbanned and then rebanned.

Whats the cause of these changes of mind? I would say, just what gets looked at. One global or admin saying they think something causes everyone below them to take that and agree. There has been plenty of times that mods opinions change based on basically nothing and I know I've been told off many times for refusing the change my mind about issues.

So, the staff members need to be encouraged to voice their own thoughts and feelings and not just follow the band wagon. Members need to be given second chances and the action that is taken should try to help everyone. Try to do what is best for everyone. A system of questions could be made up, in order to help moderators formulate their thoughts so that they can make informed decisions about punishments.

I know as a moderator, I many times just went along with others since I had no idea what was right. This really doesn't help as there are globals such as Skele, (No offence intended) who are very ban happy. Debates that follow amongst the staff are just pissing matches to get their own side heard. Creating just like a thought helper guide that focuses discussions and helps people understand why banning someone is right should be employed.

Many times people just say, "He deserves to be banned", or "Okay they did something bad just ban them". They do not even think about if banning them is the right step, or if there is something better that could be done, and when suggested it just get attacked and ignored. There just needs to be a change in mindset when it comes to not obvious "He scammed, banned" bans.

Some other thoughts:

After looking at that dispute... I've become very disappointed. Finn scammed once. He changed. Can't that guy change too? Just because Sythe knows Finn personally doesn't mean he should be let off the hook. Who's to say that that guy hasn't changed as well?

I am also a perfect, misunderstood example. I was permanently banned a few months ago, because I admitted to taking someone's full Saradomin back in old RuneScape. Of course, I ran away before he told me to transfer it for him, but that's not the point. If you didn't know the full story, you would figure I scammed him out of his full Saradomin in about 2004. This was not the case, yet I was banned for something unrelated to Sythe, and it was before Sythe, and four years before my join date, let alone 6 years before now. I don't even go into the market anyways. Should I have been banned? I don't think so, not knowing the full story. I support SuF's reasoning, and if I get permed for this post, I really don't care, I was supporting a valid cause, and the ban would be invalid anyways.

Honestly, I'm sure we've all done stupid things in the past, especially when we were younger. People change over time, as I'm sure Finn has.

Also, I believe that if you have contributed a lot to the community, you should be given another chance (depending on the severity of the offense).

Exactly this. If a prominent member of the community admits they scammed a few years ago, would you ban him? Finn changed. He was given a chance. Why can't the people who admit to scamming a long time ago be given another chance?

I'm sticking my neck out on this one, but here it goes. As a regular, normal, underprivileged member, let me say that a TWC doesn't do anything for that person but hurt them. I've seen people denied entirely for having a TWC even if they are willing to use an OMM or go first. I even do it, I see a TWC and I immediately think they have done some horrid thing that they need to be labeled. It's like branding someone, even after a TWC is removed they are still known for it around the community. I think that in some cases, especially like the one posted about phishing, people should be allowed a chance. Everybody makes mistakes, everybody in this entire forum has thought about scamming somebody at one point or another, whether or not you will all admit it or not. Sadly, being honest gets you banned, even when you know you were at fault, and childish. Admitting to the thought will get you banned, you don't actually have to take action. My support goes out to SuF, he speaks my mind very well, and he wont get banned for it.

And... Don't lock this. I knew my feedback thread would be locked as soon as Finn saw it... But. At least let this one stay open. >_>.

 

[lordy boy]

And... Don't lock this. I knew my feedback thread would be locked as soon as Finn saw it... But. At least let this one stay open. >_>.

Agreed. The last one had a lot of constructive feedback, keep this open for discussion's sake.

 

[OldFinn]

I locked it because the answer had been given about thirty times throughout the thread and because your own staff history contravenes any argument you proposed.

I can't actually see a suggestion within this wall of text, but people can go ahead and post here if they think there is a way to ''make the community a better place''.

 

[lordy boy]

I locked it because the answer had been given about thirty times throughout the thread and because your own staff history contravenes any argument you proposed.

I can't actually see a suggestion within this wall of text, but people can go ahead and post here if they think there is a way to ''make the community a better place''.

I know you're being sarcastic, but thanks anyway Finn.

 

[OldFinn]

I'm not being sarcastic at all - I'm happy for you to suggest ways to improve the site.

 

[lordy boy]

Oh alright then. Your first post sort of came off as sarcastic to me, my bad.

 

[Fa1lBoat]

How will this really improve the site? I'm pretty sure globals will keep following the other globals. If one thinks he should be perm. banned, all of them will agree. I have only seen the respected people get unbanned, who have atleast 1,000 posts.

I love the power happy " Skele Master " By the way. You could obviously tell I was joking on this thread , http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=891394 , And yet I can an infraction for it. It's the donator lounge for christ sake. Barely anyone posts topics there, and I get an infraction when I do. It's not like a major traffic forum. I don't see 200+ users viewing the lounge at one time. The most I've seen is like two.

Also, Globals take a time out of their " Busy " Schedule to ban members, but can't even help out a person who has been hacked. Stated here,http://sythe.org/showthread.php?p=6976835#post6976835 , He has been hacked, and It has been a week and still no replys.​

 

[Gurtaton]

I get the impression that he's suggesting that we be more lenient with bans. Maybe we should issue more TwC's and less bans for past offenses?

Phishing has nothing to do with the market so I don't know what's with people saying, "Hey, he's an ex-phisher so let's unban him with a TwC."

I love the power happy " Skele Master " By the way. You could obviously tell I was joking on this thread , http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=891394 , And yet I can an infraction for it. It's the donator lounge for christ sake. Barely anyone posts topics there, and I get an infraction when I do.

I once got infracted by him for asking what the staff code is and it got reversed within an hour. I don't know why, but that doesn't matter. You have a point though.

 

[Pureown]

This happened with one of my good friends that i became with on sythe, Snowboard-Ninja. He was the 1st person i had ever done a transaction with and we talked much after he was banned. his ban didn't even have solid proof and i was even told there were mods trying to get him banned, and even if he did sell "cracked accounts" (which today i still have no clue what they are) i know he has changed by a great amount.

 

[Fa1lBoat]

I once got infracted by him for asking what the staff code is and it got reversed within an hour. I don't know why, but that doesn't matter. You have a point though.

He loves giving infractions out, eh?

 

[blindkilla]

I agree with your standpoint. This stuff has bothered me too. Seeing someone openly admit that they phished years ago, and then getting banned on the forum (whether they use the market or not).

I believe people shouldn't be so hastily banned when they admit they once phished. People are usually young when they do this things and then they grow up and realize that they shouldn't be doing it anymore. There should be more investigation into a persons character, rather than simply banning someone, someone who might be a very active and nice member of the community.

 

How will this really improve the site? I'm pretty sure globals will keep following the other globals. If one thinks he should be perm. banned, all of them will agree. I have only seen the respected people get unbanned, who have atleast 1,000 posts.

I love the power happy " Skele Master " By the way. You could obviously tell I was joking on this thread , http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=891394 , And yet I can an infraction for it. It's the donator lounge for christ sake. Barely anyone posts topics there, and I get an infraction when I do. It's not like a major traffic forum. I don't see 200+ users viewing the lounge at one time. The most I've seen is like two.

Also, Globals take a time out of their " Busy " Schedule to ban members, but can't even help out a person who has been hacked. Stated here,http://sythe.org/showthread.php?p=6976835#post6976835 , He has been hacked, and It has been a week and still no replys.​

Why are you attacking Skele? You made a stupid thread asking for Paypal, which clearly constitutes begging. It's not even a joke. That's your own mistake, and you clearly earned that infraction.

 

[Fa1lBoat]

Why are you attacking Skele? You made a stupid thread asking for Paypal, which clearly constitutes begging. It's not even a joke. That's your own mistake, and you clearly earned that infraction.

Oh, So you didn't think that was a joke? OH OF COURSE ! People will really send me PaYpal! Dude, You're smart. And yes, It was clearly a joke.

 

[SuF]

I get the impression that he's suggesting that we be more lenient with bans. Maybe we should issue more TwC's and less bans for past offenses?

Basically, I am saying the mindset needs to change from just saying, you did this so I'm going to ban you to, something more like, you did this.... Whats the best course of action to protect the members of the site, its rules, and shit and should there be a punishment and think about what a ban does vs maybe just a PM asking what happened to get more information to decide whether or not the member is a danger.

Yes, I will admit this is more work than just banning someone but it makes a world of difference. And yes I see where the "We don't want you here" approach comes from, but there is more than one way to see the situation and expanding your visions would help the community a lot by maybe reducing the number of bans and making so those people can contribute and make the community better.

 

[Fa1lBoat]

Basically, I am saying the mindset needs to change from just saying, you did this so I'm going to ban you to, something more like, you did this.... Whats the best course of action to protect the members of the site, its rules, and shit and should there be a punishment and think about what a ban does vs maybe just a PM asking what happened to get more information to decide whether or not the member is a danger.

Yes, I will admit this is more work than just banning someone but it makes a world of difference. And yes I see where the "We don't want you here" approach comes from, but there is more than one way to see the situation and expanding your visions would help the community a lot by maybe reducing the number of bans and making so those people can contribute and make the community better.

Fully support. I've seen a thing where a persons computer shut down in the middle of a trade, and I think that gives TWC, Because you never know if it happened or not.

 

[SuF]

I agree with your standpoint. This stuff has bothered me too. Seeing someone openly admit that they phished years ago, and then getting banned on the forum (whether they use the market or not).

Right, the same works for many bad "character traits" I'l call them. I also will admit that in 9th or 10th grade I hacked a ning that someone made for my school and deleted everything and fucked it all up.

Should I get banned now for admitting that?

I believe people shouldn't be so hastily banned when they admit they once phished. People are usually young when they do this things and then they grow up and realize that they shouldn't be doing it anymore. There should be more investigation into a persons character, rather than simply banning someone, someone who might be a very active and nice member of the community.

Right. People grow up and change. I know I have a lot.

 

[SuF]

Fully support. I've seen a thing where a persons computer shut down in the middle of a trade, and I think that gives TWC, Because you never know if it happened or not.

This thread is more about past "crimes" that people have committed, but it kind of remains true with present scams. Judgments have to get made, and I will say that when it comes to most scams and such the mods do a great job in determining what should be done, but in other areas this skill seems to be lacked.

 

[Fa1lBoat]

I also think that if staff becomes more leniant, this community will be known as the " place where scammers go " as i've once heard it from a guy on MSN.

 

Oh, So you didn't think that was a joke? OH OF COURSE ! People will really send me PaYpal! Dude, You're smart. And yes, It was clearly a joke.

If it was a joke, it wasn't a good one, and it was unnecessary to make a thread about it. Either way you deserved that infraction.

 

[Throne]

I agree, I haven't read all the posts but most of em